malfeasance
Well-known Member
Wow. Not really the case at all. It is very easy, very, very easy, to get a warrant to open mail. I have posted the case law on here previously.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Gs anyone actually gotten busted with shipments to their house?
- Thread starter Pineapples4Puss
- Start date
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Interesting about how your case got dropped. Drug dogs don't have to be trained on sniffing out dianabol. All that counts is that the dog made a hit and they provide training records for the dog - note not even reliability of the dog is required. The certifications establish reliability as a matter of law even when the dog is shown to be not reliable (as in real case law, less than 50% accuracy).
BUT for some reason they never provided the records for the dog, and without them your prosecutor could not make a case.
A very lucky break for you.
Yes.
Easy to get, maybe. But USPS still needs to go get a judges permission to open a domestically mailed USPS package. They don't with international. And why are they getting the warrant? Most likely someone told on you.
And then your lawyer can comb through the warrant and file the usual motions to quash it. Easy to get, hard to keep. I'm not saying domestic orders are absolutely riskless, but a much different deal than international.
Yeah my lawyer explained that to me. All they had to do was show the dog existed, and they didn't. The thing is there probably never was a steroid sniffing dog, or any dog at all. They lied. Why that was put into the warrant I'm not sure. They could've just said it was opened randomly. There was something funny going on. It was an oversight by whoever tipped off the local drug team or wrote up the warrant.
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I'll also add that when I was busted I ordered Rick Collin's book on steroid law "Legal Muscle" and read it cover to cover. It's out of date now but was just released back then. And that's where I learned drug sniffing dogs haven't been trained to sniff out steroids. We photocopied the page of the book that said this and send it to the judge.
Also in his book it said most of the people he'd seen getting busted had the unfortunate experience of ordering bulk dianabol 5mg tabs from China. So something strange was going on with that at the time.
Also in his book it said most of the people he'd seen getting busted had the unfortunate experience of ordering bulk dianabol 5mg tabs from China. So something strange was going on with that at the time.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
I really don't want to get into a bickering match back and forth (because I am not really sure we disagree on much here), but just to be clear, it really does not matter whether drug dogs are trained to hit on steroids.
All that matters is the dog hit.
And that the dog has certification of training.
Really, that is all. The Supreme Court really screwed the pooch on that one (no pun intended).
The fact that something else is discovered than what the dog was trained on does not matter, because the warrant had probable cause.
And, no, informers are not the main reason for catching personal shipments in the mail - a hit by a drug dog is the main reason. I have seen this actually happen with personal shipments of steroids and drug dogs. I have never seen a person busted for a personal shipment due to somebody informing (which is not the same thing as claiming it has never happened).
All that matters is the dog hit.
And that the dog has certification of training.
Really, that is all. The Supreme Court really screwed the pooch on that one (no pun intended).
The fact that something else is discovered than what the dog was trained on does not matter, because the warrant had probable cause.
And, no, informers are not the main reason for catching personal shipments in the mail - a hit by a drug dog is the main reason. I have seen this actually happen with personal shipments of steroids and drug dogs. I have never seen a person busted for a personal shipment due to somebody informing (which is not the same thing as claiming it has never happened).
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Might want to ask Rick Collins for some case law to back up any argument that the case should be thrown out on the basis that the drug dog is not trained to sniff out steroids, because I am not aware of any, and I have looked.
The way the courts look at it, the search was either legal or illegal. If it was legal, then whatever is found is admissible evidence.
Think about it this way - the police come to your house on a valid warrant for drugs and find three dead bodies. The warrant was not for evidence of murder. The search will still be valid, however, and the evidence of a different crime will be admissible.
Same reasoning applies.
Yeah you're misreading what I wrote so I'll repeat what you said word for word since we're in agreement: the dog didn't have to be trained to sniff out steroids... it just needed to exist.
There was reason to doubt it existed. And the prosecutor couldn't show it existed. Every time a dog makes a hit they make a record of it. Every dog has training records, etc. They couldn't produce those records.
You can't be arrested and charged (even in small part) based on a lie.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Oh!
I did not get that from what you wrote before. I understand now.
I did not get that from what you wrote before. I understand now.
And honestly I don't think it did exist. I fully know I could be wrong but based on the amount of people I read was getting busted in this particular fashion and the details of my case I think at the federal level they had some kind of information sensitive sting going on.
So dogs have been specifically trained to imprint on AAS/PEDs. Sweden has its own anti-doping dog named Molly and UKAD has been working on a sniffer dog.
In the U.S., the Connecticut State Police K-9 Unit (CSP K9) program has trained dogs to imprint on "anabolic steroids" as early as 2009.
CSP KP graduates include:
"Vail" K9 at Plainfield PD
"Rika" K9 at Middletown PD
"Gwen" K9 at Madison PD
"Pete" KP at Naugatuck PD
Sources:
UK Anti-Doping to increase testing by 50% backed by new government funds
UK Anti-Doping will increase publicly funded testing by 50% by the end of March 2022 under a new strategic plan backed by £6m of new funding.
www.bbc.co.uk
Plainfield has new team to sniff out drugs
PLAINFIELD — The Plainfield Police Department has welcomed a new narcotics-fighting team to the force. Officer Dan Wolfburg and his new canine partner, Vail, recently graduated from the Connecticut…
www.norwichbulletin.com
Retired Middletown narcotics K-9 Rika succumbs to pneumonia
MIDDLETOWN >> Little seemed amiss weeks before retired Middletown police narcotics K-9...
Madison Police K-9 Gwen to Retire
It may be a stretch to call her the most important member of the Madison Police Department, but she is certainly the cutest. This month Madison Police Department K-9 Gwen, affectionately called Gwenie...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5vr77UhEWo
My case was before that. But that's very interesting. To teach a dog to sniff out marijuana or cocaine is one thing... has a certain obvious smell to it. Oxycontin and morphine another, much harder but probably possible.
But then to sniff out dbol, tbol, winstrol, anadrol, nandrolone, primo, equipoise and anavar is quite a task and why they would even go through that trouble I'm unsure. There's probably a point where they're just teaching them to sniff out solvents and fillers.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
"anabolic steroids?"
Do they all smell the same?
Do they all smell the same?
malfeasance
Well-known Member
How much longer will we tolerate this farce of pretending that drug dogs are reliable and accurate?
I guess as long was we desire to continue the war on drugs.
"A 2010 study found that packages designed to trick handlers into thinking there were drugs inside them were much more likely to trigger false alerts than packages designed to trick the dogs. (Police-dog handlers and trainers responded to that study by refusing to cooperate with further research.)"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/05/supreme-courts-alternative-facts-about-drug-sniffing-dogs/
That article at the link is well worth a read.
I guess as long was we desire to continue the war on drugs.
"A 2010 study found that packages designed to trick handlers into thinking there were drugs inside them were much more likely to trigger false alerts than packages designed to trick the dogs. (Police-dog handlers and trainers responded to that study by refusing to cooperate with further research.)"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/02/05/supreme-courts-alternative-facts-about-drug-sniffing-dogs/
That article at the link is well worth a read.
I kind of wondered that too. But you would think the 19-nors would smell different than the DHT derivatives. And tren just looks different from the others and would probably smell different but it's legal for cattle and constantly shipped to farmers anyways. An ester would probably smell different from a methyl group.
Then what about the sweaty warehouse worker who got sweat with traces of testosterone in it all over your box? The raw wool shipments? The lotions and creams and supplements with the same solvents and fillers?
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malfeasance
Well-known Member
in case I was not being clear, I think the whole drug dog thing is a scam.
Did you read the Washington Post article? When testing revealed the handlers were directing them to the boxes they thought contained drugs (the handlers were intentionally misinformed), the handlers refused to participate in further research. The point of the research was to show that the handlers cannot help but direct the dog. The dog picks up on cues from the handler even when the handler does not intend to send them. Tricking the handlers was the only way to reveal this outcome, and then they wanted nothing to do with further studies.
Did you read the Washington Post article? When testing revealed the handlers were directing them to the boxes they thought contained drugs (the handlers were intentionally misinformed), the handlers refused to participate in further research. The point of the research was to show that the handlers cannot help but direct the dog. The dog picks up on cues from the handler even when the handler does not intend to send them. Tricking the handlers was the only way to reveal this outcome, and then they wanted nothing to do with further studies.
janoshik
Subscriber
Anabolic steroids are semi-volatile, therefore they can be smelled (or detected from the air) directly.
So your saying cut out the extra cost and bullshit and have it shipped directly to your residence? Is that how you do it?
I'm saying it's much harder to defend a charge when they have you going to a shady po box and picking it up. It shows intent.
But beyond that... I'm sure a guy like Elon Musk would have it shipped domestically to a warehouse he owned with a fake name and then have an employee store it in a locked storage area with guards, hungry dogs, a moat and all kinds of cloak and dagger or something. You need a retina scan, fingerprint scan, key and password to enter. Then if the police arrives his stash can be remotely torched then launched into space from his cell phone app.
Elon Musk will never be busted for steroids
OmL
Well-known Member
I’ve had two packages intercepted. Here, Ireland, it’s sent to a thing called the Health Products Regulatory Authority, they analyse it and then once they know what it is they send you out a registered letter pretty much saying “We know you’re buying prescription drugs online and it’s dangerous. Here’s a leaflet on the dangers. You have 28 days to contact us if you wish to fight for this medication, you’ll need your doctors help if you try. Otherwise, we’re incinerating it in 28 days and we will close this case.”
First time was testosterone. Second time was HCG and trenbolone. They siezed the HCG and sent on the trenbolone. I left the package i my post box for a week the second time and dick all happened. I’ve had several deliveries after it with no issues since.
First time was testosterone. Second time was HCG and trenbolone. They siezed the HCG and sent on the trenbolone. I left the package i my post box for a week the second time and dick all happened. I’ve had several deliveries after it with no issues since.
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