Really interesting, well said. 25%...are you using a CGM?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
[GUIDE]: Preventing Cardiovascular & Neurotoxic effects of AAS via Antioxidants
- Thread starter ChemBB
- Start date
Banana Joe
Member
And how do I hit those receptors, without slowing down gastric emptying AND killing my appetite?
To me those are undesired side effects of the desired overall improvement of metabolic markers.
High doses creatin damage the kidneys which in turn will create heart problems, it's all connected
RockyP
Member
With what is currently available I think the best shot at that is low dose (0.5 - 1 mg per week) reta.
Ghoul
Member
Right now Dulaglutide is the king of "pleiotropic" GLP benefits with minimal appetite suppression. It doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. You lose some (but not all) of the brain specific and maintain the glucose control and benefits for all other organs.
It's being specifically reaearched as a non-weight loss glucose / insulin sensitivity enhancer, inflammation reducer, and heart failure treatment.
SSA got it just before exiting the stage. Dunno who else might have it. They say starting at .75mg/wk. 1.5mg / wk is where max benefit is without GI effects for most. (this matches the pharma protocol for diabetics, dose can go as high as 4.5mg / wk but has some physical weight loss inducing effects via GI slowing at that dose).
Reta is probobly the next best shot at getting enough GLP for health effects with minimal weight loss, then tirz.
Sema (ie, straight GLP-1) is the worst for this purpose. Ironically the very best for brain health and anti-addiction though, since it easily crosses the BBB. (and all other health benefits as well, but only with strong appetite suppression).
In a sense those who do need appetite suppression. may be the inadvertent beneficiaries of the other health benefits those with well functioning appetites won't be able to access.
They are working on non appetite suppressing drugs specifically engineered for this purpose, but I'm sure those that induce weight loss will take priority for a decade or more.
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dinfar1337
New Member
it wouldn't surprise me if reta and aas is interconnected for cardiac hypertrophy and remodeling from the animal models with gcgr putting synergstic stress on the heart long term
MapleAUS
New Member
In 20 years there will be a Reta resurgence, like fellas on the hunt for exotic AAS, and prohormones etc.
There will be tiktokers calling it the nectar of gods
dinfar1337
New Member
in 20 years ww3 will come and i will break into a gym and steal the equipment for my basement bunker
Ghoul
Member
That's a very good point. If blocking glucagon prevents harmful cardiac remodeling in stressed hearts, boosting glucagon may not only speed it up and worsen it, but since it also increases base heart workload in a population already putting their hearts under strain routinely, along with aas use, the outcome over the long term might not be good...
dinfar1337
New Member
Ghoul
Member
A terrible thing if this turns out to be an issue. Also if it's only the careful balance between GLP / GIP and Glucagon holding off potential heart damage, all the more reason not to randomly mix GLP's together.
On one hand possibly a tragedy (that could also bring unwanted attention to peptides and a crackdown).
On the other every naturally thin low appetite anti-GLP hater finally getting the GLP "Fen-Phen" moment they've all been praying for since these drugs appeared.
Slippery Slope: Fen-Phen Users Recall a 'Miracle' Turned Nightmare
Fen-phen use was linked to heart valve damage, as these two cases illustrate.
www.medpagetoday.com
dinfar1337
New Member
im not too interested in peptides as a whole. heavy believer in only taking what you need for your goals. insulin, hgh, glp is even a big risk for me and aas.
that case is fucked up but i see guys trying every new peptide on the market.
what this shit? mots-c? slu-pp? whats next week peptide i can use in my body with almost no research hahahahahah!
its sad the risks people are taking. i dare say there is more people now abusing peptides than there is people abusing steroids. and they aren't even competing or anything. dnp & clen easy fat loss? hgh and 100mg ai daily for height growth? full bodybuilder aas stack + 20iu hgh for someone who is barely 80kg and 15 years old? glps needs to be microdosed everyday with 4 different glp compounds + tiltrated up to max dose?
a crackdown makes sense and its probably comes at the price of our low prices and availibility at some point. i was deeply saddened everyday i opened ssa telegram and saw these guys not even knowing what they're putting into their bodies spreading misinfo everywhere.
not because i care about harm they will do to themselves. but because i know these idiots will be the downfall of my cheap market
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RockyP
Member
Interesting data fellas.
As we know there are already class action lawsuits ongoing against the currently FDA approved GLP-1 / GIP drugs for things such as gastroparesis and blindness. I personally don’t find any additional margin of safety from sema or tirz compared to Reta. Drugs are pulled from market all the time for various reasons that can have nothing to do with efficacy and everything to do with economics.
Anyone using any of these medications should keep a close eye on the medical literature. It’s always been my tinfoil hat wearing opinion that the crackdown on peptide manufacturers and vendors would signal the entree of Reta into the market / on patent. It is so easily available with some vendors offering sterility and endotoxin assays, I can’t imagine jumping through the hoops to get an Rx for it when it goes on patent. The never ending battle between insurance companies and pharma will likely lead to patients being forced to try sema, then tirz before having Reta covered. Seeing what Lilly charges for their “discounted” private pay tirz I can only imagine what the Reta cost will be. This is a serious threat to their profitability and let’s be honest, their influence is massive and far reaching. Not just in the United States but in countries where these raws are coming from.
What’s exciting from a consumer aspect is that each iteration of new drug will be aiming to clean up any mess from the one that came before. The only complaints I’ve heard from athletes using Reta is the (anecdotal) reports of possibly mildly impacted glycogen synthesis (harder to get “full” muscles). The incoming oral drugs with myostarin inhibitors and IgF-1 action should fix that nicely. So, we take the good with the bad and try to stay as informed as we can.
As we know there are already class action lawsuits ongoing against the currently FDA approved GLP-1 / GIP drugs for things such as gastroparesis and blindness. I personally don’t find any additional margin of safety from sema or tirz compared to Reta. Drugs are pulled from market all the time for various reasons that can have nothing to do with efficacy and everything to do with economics.
Anyone using any of these medications should keep a close eye on the medical literature. It’s always been my tinfoil hat wearing opinion that the crackdown on peptide manufacturers and vendors would signal the entree of Reta into the market / on patent. It is so easily available with some vendors offering sterility and endotoxin assays, I can’t imagine jumping through the hoops to get an Rx for it when it goes on patent. The never ending battle between insurance companies and pharma will likely lead to patients being forced to try sema, then tirz before having Reta covered. Seeing what Lilly charges for their “discounted” private pay tirz I can only imagine what the Reta cost will be. This is a serious threat to their profitability and let’s be honest, their influence is massive and far reaching. Not just in the United States but in countries where these raws are coming from.
What’s exciting from a consumer aspect is that each iteration of new drug will be aiming to clean up any mess from the one that came before. The only complaints I’ve heard from athletes using Reta is the (anecdotal) reports of possibly mildly impacted glycogen synthesis (harder to get “full” muscles). The incoming oral drugs with myostarin inhibitors and IgF-1 action should fix that nicely. So, we take the good with the bad and try to stay as informed as we can.
docpepper
Member
I don't doubt a harder crackdown on peptides is coming at some point, likely because of pharma motivations.
However, we do live in a bubble. The average person wouldn't dream of buying Bac water, reconstituting a puck, and injecting stuff from a site like "Gorilla Peptides - FOR RESEARCH ONLY NO HUMAN USE"
So I think we have a tendency to overrate the effect of gray market peps on the revenue of these companies. The explosion of peptide moms and telegram groups does make me a bit wary, but I'd guess it's still a rounding error for actual pharma sales. Guess time will tell.
Superchicken
Member
I was under the impression that large doses of antioxidants should be taken away from training because it can interfere with the inflammatory process of building muscle. Do you have an opinion on that, or if it only really matters more when taken with vit c? I never looked into it, and just stuck to doing it at bedtime. I forget sometimes though and have done it near workouts before.
Thanks. Thats saying something. HGH was the main reason I started reta. Granted I've never been above 5iu and had no issues...but id rather nudge in the direction of mitigating them as they are probably creep in very gradually.
Just to be clear, are you saying that high dose creatine damages the kidneys?
In general or in a specific context?
My understanding was that there was no evidence for this...
trtchin
Member
Would love to see studies on this as well what is a high dose. I believe 10g and I think even more have been studied long term with no ill effects.
I dont like NAC. It messes too heavily with dopamine and neurotransmeters and is overall not a good supplements for asthmatic.
Injectable gluthathion being just as bad as nac for asthmatic (or even worse depending on roa/dose/speed of administration) doesnt have the psych effect and is overall way more potent (at least on my liver values, i'd have to do research on the AO and AI of it, a bit busy atm).
TUDCA, being a liver supplement, is also a potent anti inflammatory, good for cognition, and free radical scavenger).
Concerning vitamins. I supplement thiamine (you should at least get 5 times the RDA),Vitamin C is a must at every meal. Does so many things, from nutrient absorption, immunity healthy, anti oxidative/inflammatory, skin etc. Methylated b6, b9, b12. The moment I added those with TMG, I was able to run 19 nors again. You can add SAMe if you're financially secure. Once you've fixed your COMT pathway, you'll breath again. Mine was completly fucked up.
All the sleep supplements that happens to promote deep sleep but are also anti cortisrol (I cycle ashwanga, good compound but slighly over rated imo) and will make you actually fresh upon waking up.
Melatonin is one of the most potent anti oxidant that we have in our arsenal. Watch your prolactin though. And titrate up. There is a number of mg where melatonin will make you a zombie the next day (for some that starts at 15 mg, some 50, and the true warrior takes 100 mg before bed, sometimes a portion of it from the injectable form.
Magnesium, take the most your poop can handle. Up the dose until you got diarhea.
That shit is magic. Every form is fine except oxide.
Glycine and taurine are the true mvp, mostly because it goes under the radar for most. Lower your body temp for glycine. You wznt to sleep under 36° every night. I take 10 mg everynight. Just too good. Especizlly for the price. Taurine is a potent anti oxidant, acts a mytoncondrial support, will help your electrolytes balances themselves. Very fucking good for your brain and mitigiting neurotoxicity. Good for your CV health (lipids and overall metabolic health. Good for your exercice performance and recovery. Should be in tap water.
I want to mention a med aswell, agomelatine. Works really good, induce sleeping fast and will make go to sleep and wake up at the same time everynight.
About cognitive health, I love all the choligernic stuff. I probably lost a few Iq points from past tren abuse and since im on a stack of 750mg CDP choline, 50 mg UMP, 200 mg huperzine A 200 mcg (not everydsy though), 200 mg PS, 20 mg vortioxetine, I dont have this brzin for anymore.
Concerning heart and kidneys, those are mostly rx meds, so I wont mention them here. But I take 5g of EPA + DHA and coq10 200mg. K3, D2 aswell, obviously.
Complements that I tzke that are not there : astaxanthin 12 mg daily, creatine, ALCAR.
Injectable gluthathion being just as bad as nac for asthmatic (or even worse depending on roa/dose/speed of administration) doesnt have the psych effect and is overall way more potent (at least on my liver values, i'd have to do research on the AO and AI of it, a bit busy atm).
TUDCA, being a liver supplement, is also a potent anti inflammatory, good for cognition, and free radical scavenger).
Concerning vitamins. I supplement thiamine (you should at least get 5 times the RDA),Vitamin C is a must at every meal. Does so many things, from nutrient absorption, immunity healthy, anti oxidative/inflammatory, skin etc. Methylated b6, b9, b12. The moment I added those with TMG, I was able to run 19 nors again. You can add SAMe if you're financially secure. Once you've fixed your COMT pathway, you'll breath again. Mine was completly fucked up.
All the sleep supplements that happens to promote deep sleep but are also anti cortisrol (I cycle ashwanga, good compound but slighly over rated imo) and will make you actually fresh upon waking up.
Melatonin is one of the most potent anti oxidant that we have in our arsenal. Watch your prolactin though. And titrate up. There is a number of mg where melatonin will make you a zombie the next day (for some that starts at 15 mg, some 50, and the true warrior takes 100 mg before bed, sometimes a portion of it from the injectable form.
Magnesium, take the most your poop can handle. Up the dose until you got diarhea.
That shit is magic. Every form is fine except oxide.
Glycine and taurine are the true mvp, mostly because it goes under the radar for most. Lower your body temp for glycine. You wznt to sleep under 36° every night. I take 10 mg everynight. Just too good. Especizlly for the price. Taurine is a potent anti oxidant, acts a mytoncondrial support, will help your electrolytes balances themselves. Very fucking good for your brain and mitigiting neurotoxicity. Good for your CV health (lipids and overall metabolic health. Good for your exercice performance and recovery. Should be in tap water.
I want to mention a med aswell, agomelatine. Works really good, induce sleeping fast and will make go to sleep and wake up at the same time everynight.
About cognitive health, I love all the choligernic stuff. I probably lost a few Iq points from past tren abuse and since im on a stack of 750mg CDP choline, 50 mg UMP, 200 mg huperzine A 200 mcg (not everydsy though), 200 mg PS, 20 mg vortioxetine, I dont have this brzin for anymore.
Concerning heart and kidneys, those are mostly rx meds, so I wont mention them here. But I take 5g of EPA + DHA and coq10 200mg. K3, D2 aswell, obviously.
Complements that I tzke that are not there : astaxanthin 12 mg daily, creatine, ALCAR.
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