Harm reduction in the Steroid Underground subforum - this is NOT a source forum

[Millard]

My only issue with the negative in Qs thread is the fact that all the haters discredit anyone who had a good experience as a shill or alt, that is just as toxic as anything else.
The sole vibe I get from that is competition/sponsor supporters trying to burn them at the stake.

I have no skin in the game other than a cpl good purchases but as I’ve stated I’ve been on that side of the biz and I see merit on both sides

The way some of you act towards random ppl talking about their good experience just cause they don’t fit in your toxic agenda is not harm reduction or source control

I’ve been around this bird for years as a guest but I finally make a account and me and plenty of others are labeled as shills cause we had a good experience

I’m all for keeping sources honest and upstanding but that’s not the motive that’s presented here.

Avoiding the facts to spin the narrative in your direction is about as narssisstic as it gets. Gaslighting normal customers is bs

Personally idgaf if I get banned for this post as I’m happy to go back to being a guest but @Millard you have to agree that the attackers are just as bad if not worse for the community as the supporters

Anyways this is not directed at everyone but those who it is k ow who you are

Cheers

Certainly, accusing every consumer who has a positive experience as an alt account will hurt credibility when it is false. And based on my experience moderating forums, alternate accounts can be ruled out most of the time.

I encourage members to always report suspected alternate accounts. They will be investigated and banned if confirmed.

However, the suspicion of alternate accounts has strong basis due to the characteristics of most of the accused accounts.

For example, suspected alt accounts typical show the following behavior:

(1) are new account whose first post includes positive feedback and praise for a specific source;

(2) are accounts who post predominantly, or exclusively, in the source thread;

(3) are account who ignore all of the dedicated subforums for AAS, training, diet, nutrition, off-topic discussions, etc. and insist on posting all of these information in the source thread effectively and simultaneously bumping the thread while burying any potential negative criticism.

Clearly, accounts which exhibit these characteristics will have their motivations suspect.

Why did this person wake up and decide to sign up for a MESO account specifically so they can praise a source? Why do they post (almost) exclusively in the source thread?

This does not look like the motivations of an unbiased member interested in promoting harm reduction for the community at large.

Were they asked to sign up and post by the source? Were they offered incentives (e.g. freebies or discounts on their next order) if they post something positive? Are they posting primarily out of self-interest or genuine concern for other consumers?

Having said that, MESO welcomes ALL feedback, both positive and negative. MESO welcomes customers of all vendors to share their experiences too.

However, I strongly encourage those who are posting the positive experiences with the genuine goal of providing data for the community to better evaluate the risks of using the source to LIMIT their positive comments to a few posts. That is all that is needed. Spending hours defending (promoting) the source with dozens or even hundreds of post hurts YOUR credibility. Take the time to read and learn and enjoy other subforums, articles, and commentary on MESO. Post and share your non-source-related experiences in sports, bodybuilding, nutrition, life, etc.

Just don't act like a shill - it's really that easy

1/3

 

[SkorpiusLabs]

Certainly, accusing every consumer who has a positive experience as an alt account will hurt credibility when it is false. And based on my experience moderating forums, alternate accounts can be ruled out most of the time.

I encourage members to always report suspected alternate accounts. They will be investigated and banned if confirmed.

However, the suspicion of alternate accounts has strong basis due to the characteristics of most of the accused accounts.

For example, suspected alt accounts typical show the following behavior:

(1) are new account whose first post includes positive feedback and praise for a specific source;

(2) are accounts who post predominantly, or exclusively, in the source thread;

(3) are account who ignore all of the dedicated subforums for AAS, training, diet, nutrition, off-topic discussions, etc. and insist on posting all of these information in the source thread effectively and simultaneously bumping the thread while burying any potential negative criticism.

Clearly, accounts which exhibit these characteristics will have their motivations suspect.

Why did this person wake up and decide to sign up for a MESO account specifically so they can praise a source? Why do they post (almost) exclusively in the source thread?

This does not look like the motivations of an unbiased member interested in promoting harm reduction for the community at large.

Were they asked to sign up and post by the source? Were they offered incentives (e.g. freebies or discounts on their next order) if they post something positive? Are they posting primarily out of self-interest or genuine concern for other consumers?

Having said that, MESO welcomes ALL feedback, both positive and negative. MESO welcomes customers of all vendors to share their experiences too.

However, I strongly encourage those who are posting the positive experiences with the genuine goal of providing data for the community to better evaluate the risks of using the source to LIMIT their comments to a few posts. That is all that is needed. Spending hours defending (promoting) the source with dozens or even hundreds of post hurts YOUR credibility. Take the time to read and learn and enjoy other subforums, articles, and commentary on MESO. Post and share your non-source-related experiences in sports, bodybuilding, nutrition, life, etc. It's really easy - just don't act like a shill.

1/2

I agree with everything posted completely,
And in my personal defence I was a lurker for a long time before I made an account with the sole purpose of finding a new raw source. Coincidentally after going thru that sources pages and pages of chatter I sympathized as I’ve been in that type of situation myself, so I took a lot of what was being said personally when in actuality it really doesn’t change my day either way.
I bought, I’m happy and will continue and that’s that, but when I tried to reflect my feelings of my experience ( I know it’s different) I get told I’m a shill and shit and that got in my head to the point where I felt the need to stress the points I seen as relevant as well.

Anyways I’m done with that but thanks for replying regardless appreciate it

Cheers

 

[Millard]

2/3

Like I said in my previous post, MESO welcomes ALL feedback, both positive and negative.

Unfortunately, in the mostly-uncensored Steroid Underground subforum, there are a variety of motivations. And not all of them are operating with the goal of harm reduction as intended by MESO.

There are those whose agenda is to promote and encourage the use of particular sources.

There are those whose agenda is to obstruct and discourage the use of particular sources.

(Interestingly, those with the former agenda are usually enthusiastic supporters of those with the latter agenda but that is another story entirely.)

The problem with these two agenda-driven approaches is that they are not always or necessarily fact-based. Inconvenient facts are overlooked. The end justifies the means.

Within each of these two agendas, there are both customers and non-customers.

Pro-source agendas can include satisfied customers who believe they are helping others find a "good" source. It can also include non-customers who are motivated by profit or other incentives.

Anti-source agendas can included dissatisfied customers who are committed to warning other potential consumers about their negative experience. It can also include non-customers who never ordered from the source but want to stop potential consumers from risking harm.

The light moderation in the Steroid Underground subforum means that members can't just take everything at face value. You must spend time trying to understand the motivations.

It is often said on the forum that no one will "spoon feed" you regarding sources. This is not entirely true. When it comes to which source NOT to buy from, you will most likely be force-fed.

More often than not, there are very good reasons that members try to stop you from purchasing from a specific source. Unfortunately, if your agenda is to stop everyone from using a specific source, this often leads to the belief that anyone who has anything positive to say will need to be stopped as well.

There are reasons this could be problematic too not the least of which is that most customers of even the "bad" sources are relatively happy and satisfied with their experiences and have accepted the risks. Should they be "run off" the forum?

I'll write more on this later...

2/3

 

[SkorpiusLabs]

2/3

Like I said in my previous post, MESO welcomes ALL feedback, both positive and negative.

Unfortunately, in the mostly-uncensored Steroid Underground subforum, there are a variety of motivations. And not all of them are operating with the goal of harm reduction as intended by MESO.

There are those whose agenda is to promote and encourage the use of particular sources.

There are those whose agenda is to obstruct and discourage the use of particular sources.

(Interestingly, those with the former agenda are usually enthusiastic supporters of those with the latter agenda but that is another story entirely.)

The problem with these two agenda-driven approaches is that they are not always or necessarily fact-based. Inconvenient facts are overlooked. The end justifies the means.

Within each of these two agendas, there are both customers and non-customers.

Pro-source agendas can include satisfied customers who believe they are helping others find a "good" source. It can also include non-customers who are motivated by profit or other incentives.

Anti-source agendas can included dissatisfied customers who are committed to warning other potential consumers about their negative experience. It can also include non-customers who never ordered from the source but want to stop potential consumers from risking harm.

The light moderation in the Steroid Underground subforum means that members can't just take everything at face value. You must spend time trying to understand the motivations.

It is often said on the forum that no one will "spoon feed" you regarding sources. This is not entirely true. When it comes to which source NOT to buy from, you will most likely be force-fed.

More often than not, there are very good reasons that members try to stop you from purchasing from a specific source. Unfortunately, if your agenda is to stop everyone from using a specific source, this often leads to the belief that anyone who has anything positive to say will need to be stopped as well.

There are reasons this could be problematic too not the least of which is that most customers of even the "bad" sources are relatively happy and satisfied with their experiences (and may be willing to dismiss certain risks).

I'll write more on this later...

2/3

I operated a discord with close to 4000 ppl I totally understand this perspective and it is the sole reason I tagged you cause I knew that you would be able to look at things politically.

Me personally I got caught up in the moment but normally am very unbiased and fact based with a risk/reward ratio guiding my decisions.

In regard to Q il likely keep buying ,but I’m personally done with the thread as it brings out the side of me I tend to keep in and I would much rather be helping then constantly arguing over shit with people that don’t matter on topics that don’t affect my day lol

Anyways have a good day/night
Cheers again

 

[Btcowboy]

See there you go again… I have done none of that nor am I connected in anyway other than as a customer.

You are toxic cause anytime anyone posts anything positive u and your shill army bury it with the same parroted shit

1. I thought you wanted us to stop quoting you and you would stop
2. Please read what a shill is and we are definitely not that
3. I dont jump on positive reviews nor does anyone else. Its the shill and source defenders such as yourself we jump on. Open your eyes ans see that

 

[MadBret]

@SkorpiusLabs
You and I had an exchange that originally had you labeled as a shill. I honestly think you're a happy customer rather than actually shilling for qsc.

And I have certainly been guilty of being sucked into bullshit as you say you were.

I can understand being happy to get cheap prices. Nobody wants to overpay. But you also need to realize that qsc has done a lot of shady tactics to try to control the narrative and silence or bury negative feedback.

When you decided to step up and become a defacto rep for the company, you were treated as such. When you chose to try to bury the negative reviews with your bullshit, that is why you were treated like a redheaded step child that stole something.

It seems that you have seen the error in your ways, for the most part.

I really don't have a problem with happy customers or their positive reviews but when y'all start fighting against those who have had problems or are speaking out against them, you should have known that some shit slinging was going to occur.

Y'all take care and stay safe. Qsc isn't worth standing up and ruining your reputation for, whether you care about it or not.

 

[Btcowboy]

@SkorpiusLabs
You and I had an exchange that originally had you labeled as a shill. I honestly think you're a happy customer rather than actually shilling for qsc.

And I have certainly been guilty of being sucked into bullshit as you say you were.

I can understand being happy to get cheap prices. Nobody wants to overpay. But you also need to realize that qsc has done a lot of shady tactics to try to control the narrative and silence or bury negative feedback.

When you decided to step up and become a defacto rep for the company, you were treated as such. When you chose to try to bury the negative reviews with your bullshit, that is why you were treated like a redheaded step child that stole something.

It seems that you have seen the error in your ways, for the most part.

I really don't have a problem with happy customers or their positive reviews but when y'all start fighting against those who have had problems or are speaking out against them, you should have known that some shit slinging was going to occur.

Y'all take care and stay safe. Qsc isn't worth standing up and ruining your reputation for, whether you care about it or not.

Well said and I echo exactly that. In fact if anyone feels like digging through the QSC thread I have a comment where I actually said I hope he does well he just needs to take care of his customers and he would have prettt much cornered the market.

Happy Customers are a great thing until they get defensive, discredit, bury, any negative comments or reviews. Me and others will always be in that shit, as well as any obvious shill, or ahit source or shady practice.

This will never change

 

[MisterSuperGod]

Well said and I echo exactly that. In fact if anyone feels like digging through the QSC thread I have a comment where I actually said I hope he does well he just needs to take care of his customers and he would have prettt much cornered the market.

Happy Customers are a great thing until they get defensive, discredit, bury, any negative comments or reviews. Me and others will always be in that shit, as well as any obvious shill, or ahit source or shady practice.

This will never change

Exactly. i have no issue with someone posting their unbiased review. Tell everyone how it went and be done with it.

It's when these jokers pepper a review with "all the haters work for other sources" or other baseless, unnecessary comments that have nothing to do with the review that make their review seem biased.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

In regard to Q il likely keep buying ,but I’m personally done with the thread as it brings out the side of me I tend to keep in and I would much rather be helping then constantly arguing over shit with people that don’t matter on topics that don’t affect my day lol

The reason you caught flak is because it indeed brought out the side of you that you tend to keep in.

You're a customer. Who cares if i shout from the rooftops that i hate Dingdoxx?

My dislike for them doesn't effect your ability to buy from them. The fact is my (and others) dislike for the source that you use elicits an emotional response as if you're being personally attacked and it shouldn't. Period.

 

[Footfetishguy]

The reason you caught flak is because it indeed brought out the side of you that you tend to keep in.

You're a customer. Who cares if i shout from the rooftops that i hate Dingdoxx?

My dislike for them doesn't effect your ability to buy from them. The fact is my (and others) dislike for the source that you use elicits an emotional response as if you're being personally attacked and it shouldn't. Period.

I have never in my entire life seen someone so obsessed with a complete stranger, I’m not joking you should see a psychiatrist. You come off as mentally ill. You literally post in QSCs thread more than they do. You say people who like QSC elicit an emotional response? Dude you act like a crazy woman someone hooked up with once and now you’re showing up at their work and calling 50x a day. Do you not have a job or something? You’re fucking strange and it’s weird you’re so obsessed with some random guy you’ve never even met or done business with. Christ.

 

[SkorpiusLabs]

@SkorpiusLabs
You and I had an exchange that originally had you labeled as a shill. I honestly think you're a happy customer rather than actually shilling for qsc.

And I have certainly been guilty of being sucked into bullshit as you say you were.

I can understand being happy to get cheap prices. Nobody wants to overpay. But you also need to realize that qsc has done a lot of shady tactics to try to control the narrative and silence or bury negative feedback.

When you decided to step up and become a defacto rep for the company, you were treated as such. When you chose to try to bury the negative reviews with your bullshit, that is why you were treated like a redheaded step child that stole something.

It seems that you have seen the error in your ways, for the most part.

I really don't have a problem with happy customers or their positive reviews but when y'all start fighting against those who have had problems or are speaking out against them, you should have known that some shit slinging was going to occur.

Y'all take care and stay safe. Qsc isn't worth standing up and ruining your reputation for, whether you care about it or not.

Exactly , I have my source I’m happy but it’s most def not worth my time to engage it’s like Biden/trump you can’t win a argument no matter which side your on so just place your vote and move on

 

[Kdubswoldgier]

I'm just waiting on the 3/3
All the bickering reminds me of the proverb bout a nagging wife: better off alone. Im new and read some but find it cool Millard making this thread. Also wondering if theres a 'history of how meso came to be' (without various details of course)

 

[Millard]

I'm just waiting on the 3/3
All the bickering reminds me of the proverb bout a nagging wife: better off alone. Im new and read some but find it cool Millard making this thread. Also wondering if theres a 'history of how meso came to be' (without various details of course)

Soon. Thanks for your patience.

 

[Millard]

Before leaping to assumptions & accusations, it might be prudent to ask @Millard whether the “3 strikes & out” rule was ever an official policy that he’s formally declared on the forum. I honestly don’t know, hence this post.

It’s possible that this wasn’t ever an official declared rule & members have just assumed it was after perma-bans were given to some after 3 temp bans.

@Millard?

Or can anyone link to a post where Millard stated this rule?

A permanent ban is generally reserved for members who blatantly, repeatedly, and/or intentionally violating the forum rules, personally attack mods/admins, or otherwise seek to undermine the website. Members are temporarily banned for most rules violations and told not to do it again.

I currently use the 3 strikes guidance when a member has been warned about a specific rule violation. If the member has been warned and continues to blatantly violate the specific rule, this at the very least shows reckless or careless disregard for the rules, if not malicious intent . For example, if someone posts too much tracking information a second time after being warned and temporarily banned the first time, a third violation makes the intent abundantly clear. It is unlikely to be accidental. It would be reckless and careless at the very least.

 

[Millard]

In the future, please post all questions seeking clarity on bans, rules, etc. in this thread. I don't want to drive traffic to individual source threads on topics that apply more broadly across the Steroid Underground subforum.

 

[Liska]

In the future, please post all questions seeking clarity on bans, rules, etc. in this thread. I don't want to drive traffic to individual source threads on topics that apply more broadly across the Steroid Underground subforum.

Please rate my cute cool catgirl money trick* by the Meso rules:

1. Establish a presence in the UG for a while by having your website / contact / pricelist posted repeatedly in your and other threads.
2. Inofficially incentivize a harem of simps to keep your thread on top without your presence.
3. Stop posting to comply with the "no promotion of harmful drugs" rule and add these harmful drugs (back) to your website/pricelist**

*not financial advice
**hypothetically

 

[Iron Vett]

I have never in my entire life seen someone so obsessed with a complete stranger, I’m not joking you should see a psychiatrist. You come off as mentally ill. You literally post in QSCs thread more than they do. You say people who like QSC elicit an emotional response? Dude you act like a crazy woman someone hooked up with once and now you’re showing up at their work and calling 50x a day. Do you not have a job or something? You’re fucking strange and it’s weird you’re so obsessed with some random guy you’ve never even met or done business with. Christ.

Seeing that you have recently joined Meso, I can pretty well tell by this quoted comment that you haven’t done very much reading in the older source threads. Take some time and dig around and see how Meso operates as a site which chooses members over sources every single time. Members are to be protected. Fuck the sources. . A good thread to dig up would be The Brew Kit. This guy was a danger to people with his shoddy practices. Now by todays rules, I would’ve caught a ban for repeatedly posting the same thing over and over. In fact I may have caused this rule change by my actions in that thread. Unfortunately that was the only way that the customers would be warned off and force this dude to quit trying to hang around where he wasn’t wanted. The harm reduction at Meso will always be for the members and sources can go to hell.

 

[Millard]

3/3
Harm reduction means different things to different people. To many people, it means prohibiting the use of some sources if they are deemed "too risky" (with regards to products or services or some other factors). It also means forbidding anyone from sharing any positive experiences or feedback about the disapproved source. It means "running off" anyone who disagrees with a given risk assessment.

So in this interpretation, the goal is essentially to eliminate all disapproved sources and forbid any positive discussion about the disapproved sources. I guess this leaves a forum where only approved sources and their satisfied customers are allowed to participate.

But hasn't this been done before? It does sound a little familiar. Maybe like a "source forum"?

The power to decide who is approved and disapproved may be different. It may not be the admins or moderators. It may be a small group of individuals. It may be a majority of individuals. And some people would be happy to trust any of these groups from admins/mods to small groups to majority rules to make decisions for everyone.

But haven't I mentioned somewhere that this is NOT a source forum where you are told where to buy and where not to buy AAS?

I know so many people really really want this for MESO even though there is no shortage of source forums on the internet.

For better or worse, MESO strives to offer an alternative approach that focuses on harm reduction. MESO is not going to steer you to a list of approved sources. The Steroid Underground subforum was established to hold ALL sources accountable. Ideally, every single active source would be represented with positive and negative feedback from all their customers.

This information can help evaluate risk and present the risk assessment of each and every source for potential consumers to evaluate. Of course, as any harm reduction advocate knows, individuals may put themselves at risk of harm to different degrees, both knowingly and unknowingly, and you must meet them where they're at. It's a matter of presenting evidence and education to help individuals make better decisions with the understanding that it may not always work but with the determination that you must keep trying to inform.

Ok, well that's the vision. I recognize the reality may be something different. And that's another topic for another day.

3/3

 

[Footfetishguy]

Seeing that you have recently joined Meso, I can pretty well tell by this quoted comment that you haven’t done very much reading in the older source threads. Take some time and dig around and see how Meso operates as a site which chooses members over sources every single time. Members are to be protected. Fuck the sources. . A good thread to dig up would be The Brew Kit. This guy was a danger to people with his shoddy practices. Now by todays rules, I would’ve caught a ban for repeatedly posting the same thing over and over. In fact I may have caused this rule change by my actions in that thread. Unfortunately that was the only way that the customers would be warned off and force this dude to quit trying to hang around where he wasn’t wanted. The harm reduction at Meso will always be for the members and sources can go to hell.

There’s a difference in warning members, and spamming the same message while using racial slurs over and over. One is benefiting the community, The other is just immature spamming and name calling.

I’m not new to meso, I’ve read this forum for several years but never made an account because i used a different forum to source at the time.

 

[T&H]

There’s a difference in warning members, and spamming the same message while using racial slurs over and over. One is benefiting the community, The other is just immature spamming and name calling.

I’m not new to meso, I’ve read this forum for several years but never made an account because i used a different forum to source at the time.

So it's OK for the rep to resort to childish name calling when caught with their pants down or when pissed, but not for members bringing up problems? And calling them Ding dong is racist? GTFO with this trash. Never should been allowed a free pass after this last stunt.

They are the Damn opposite of harm reduction. See page 502 of their thread. Posted tracking or address twice resulting in a ban, yet still here.