Has anyone actually harmed their heart / kidneys from steroids in spite of having good BP and blood work?

[malfeasance]

eGFR Calculator

www.kidney.org

Wow, that shows a way higher number than my eGFR on a blood test (92 v. 72). I guess they just plug in a number for bodyweight? It is not a question that they ask when scheduling blood tests. The only difference is body weight. I do not have a Cystatin C number. If I lower the bodyweight, then it lowers the eGFR number. It looks like the test assumes I am 120 some odd pounds?

Or am I misusing this calculator?

 

[PeterBond]

Wow, that shows a way higher number than my eGFR on a blood test (92 v. 72). I guess they just plug in a number for bodyweight? It is not a question that they ask when scheduling blood tests. The only difference is body weight. I do not have a Cystatin C number. If I lower the bodyweight, then it lowers the eGFR number. It looks like the test assumes I am 120 some odd pounds?

Or am I misusing this calculator?

The eGFR is expressed as mL/min per 1,73 m2 body surface (i.e. mL/min/1,73m2) by default. If you plug in your height and weight it doesn't need to express it anymore per 1,73 m2 body surface but can simply give the eGFR for you (= for your estimated/calculated body surface) and thus the unit will be mL/min. If the calculated body surface is below 1,73 m2 the number will be lower and if it's higher it will be higher.

Labs don't know your body surface or body weight and height, thus they always express in ml/min/1,73m2.

 

[NotHuman]

You can’t get a full torso MRI and have intricate details of the heart…you would be on fire if they tested and looked at every single organ in the torso to get the detailed images they need.

It’s shocking at how little ppl know about the heart.
Now you need a cardiac mri that in itself takes over an hour to complete.
Then it has to be assessed and a report written .
Could you imagine the whole group of the bodies complex systems to note in a whole body MRI?
It would happen .
Now I have taken gh and had an MRI before and then after cessation .(roughly 3 months)
My heart grew significantly just from 2iu of pharma a day. So my cardiologist opted against continued growth hormone therapy and that was fine with me.
I am a cardiac patient , have had open heart surgery also and know a great deal about heart failure and the heart in general.
My heart was definitely left worse off after stopping gh therapy.
Again this could be my genetics and also could have to do with an interaction with some of my cardiac medication there are alot of factors to think about.

Thanks for sharing this.

Not surprised at what I bolded here because it is consistent with the evidence. The amount of people here who think any amount of HGH is bad for the heart have no idea how to use pubmed or even google for that matter.

Btw, what was worse about your heart once you stopped?

 

[malfeasance]

The eGFR is expressed as mL/min per 1,73 m2 body surface (i.e. mL/min/1,73m2) by default. If you plug in your height and weight it doesn't need to express it anymore per 1,73 m2 body surface but can simply give the eGFR for you (= for your estimated/calculated body surface) and thus the unit will be mL/min. If the calculated body surface is below 1,73 m2 the number will be lower and if it's higher it will be higher.

Labs don't know your body surface or body weight and height, thus they always express in ml/min/1,73m2.

Thanks.

So, hypothetically, there are 270 pound bodybuilders running around thinking that their eGFR of 59 is kidney failure, when simply plugging their massive size into the formula would result in a high number showing kidneys are working just fine?

 

[Thegodofwar]

Thanks for sharing this.

Not surprised at what I bolded here because it is consistent with the evidence. The amount of people here who think any amount of HGH is bad for the heart have no idea how to use pubmed or even google for that matter.

Btw, what was worse about your heart once you stopped?

It was larger by a measurable amount wether that made my heart more efficient or less efficient only time will tell

 

[Thegodofwar]

How long ago was that?

Did you check your heart again?

A lot of cardiomyopathy is reversible.

Traditionally cardiomyopathy is not reversible the main types include dilated, hypertrophic and restrictive cardiomyopathy
If there is a cause of the cardiomyopathy and that cause is found and treated then it can be reversed.
My heart has remained enlarged
Like I said in this thread whether it is good or bad remains to be seen.
It’s not simply big is bad and small is better it’s all about ejection fraction.

 

[malfeasance]

Hmmm . . . I was under the impression that it was not normally a permanent condition, that is, if you changed what you are doing that caused it. For example, a steroid abusing, obese powerlifter or strongman who stops abusing steroids and takes up bicycle racing as his new competitive sport - any maladaptive changes to his heart ought to improve? Or so I thought. I am certainly not an expert on the subject.

It is disappointing to think it may be permanent.

 

[explodingHeart]

Wow, that shows a way higher number than my eGFR on a blood test (92 v. 72). I guess they just plug in a number for bodyweight? It is not a question that they ask when scheduling blood tests. The only difference is body weight. I do not have a Cystatin C number. If I lower the bodyweight, then it lowers the eGFR number. It looks like the test assumes I am 120 some odd pounds?

Or am I misusing this calculator?

GFR Normalized to Total Body Water Allows Comparisons across Genders and Body Sizes

The normalization of GFR to a standardized body-surface area of 1.73 m[2] impedes comparison of GFR across individuals of different genders, heights, or weights. Ideally, GFR should be normalized to a parameter that best explains variation in GFR. Here, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So, hypothetically, there are 270 pound bodybuilders running around thinking that their eGFR of 59 is kidney failure

yes. this topic has been covered at least a billion times by now on various roid discussion boards

high number showing kidneys are working just fine?

nephrologist will tell you to fuck off unless you have protein in urine and actual proof of kidney damage

 

[Millard]

Hmmm . . . I was under the impression that it was not normally a permanent condition, that is, if you changed what you are doing that caused it. For example, a steroid abusing, obese powerlifter or strongman who stops abusing steroids and takes up bicycle racing as his new competitive sport - any maladaptive changes to his heart ought to improve? Or so I thought. I am certainly not an expert on the subject.

It is disappointing to think it may be permanent.

My LVH regressed to normal.

 

[malfeasance]

My LVH regressed to normal.

I thought I had read about others, as well.

 

[malfeasance]

this topic has been covered at least a billion times by now on various roid discussion boards

Literally the first time I have seen it. I enjoy learning something new.

 

[explodingHeart]

Literally the first time I have seen it. I enjoy learning something new.

If you knew your kidneys and heart are fine, would you keep juicing in your 50s?

 

[malfeasance]

I am the wrong person to ask, as I started late and won a contest in my 50s. It was not a natural contest.

 

[YatesIsBased]

Late reply, but... I started at 50. Everything seems to still be working as it should. (Except Thyroid, but that stopped working much earlier for unknown reason) I plan to keep utilizing PEDs unless something indicates it's not worth it. (Risk vs Reward)

 

[Intrepid]

We see left ventricular hypertrophy quite regularly, also in the absence of hypertension. Kidneys we sometimes see decreased eGFR (based on cystatin c) and an increased albumin:creatinine ratio in urine. One of our patients, unfortunately, developed focal segmental glomerulosclerosis during a steroid cycle. He's been off for over a year now, and his eGFR is not showing any improvement (stuck around ~30), despite treatment.

-what are the leading causes of ventricular hypertrophy? (Other than GH)

Hypertension being one?

 

[Thegodofwar]

My LVH regressed to normal.

Hypertrophy and cardiomyopathy are two different things
And in your case it may have been a bad thing as your heart got muscly to compensate for the extra work and body size brother
Think cardiomyopathy as a balloon expanding and hypertrophy as thickening best way to describe.
Also showing on an echo is unreliable
Go get a fukl
Scale cardiac MRI and I guarantee you that your cardiac hypertrophy is still there!

 

[Thegodofwar]

If you knew your kidneys and heart are fine, would you keep juicing in your 50s?

Drinking alcohol and smoking would be much worse than steroids to be fair so you will be fine
I have heart failure and I actively take around a gram of gear a year nonstop
Primo and test p

 

[PeterBond]

-what are the leading causes of ventricular hypertrophy? (Other than GH)

Hypertension being one?

In general? Hypertension and I guess aortic stenosis. In our patients it's almost exclusively androgen use.

 

[malfeasance]

I have heart failure and I actively take around a gram of gear a year nonstop
Primo and test p

Whoa, wait, what???

 

[Thegodofwar]

Whoa, wait, what???

Guys it is not bad at all
My cardiologist knows about it also he says it’s fine if my tests are normal.
You will come to the realisation one day that it’s not the gram of gear it’s the 20-30 grans that pros take and lie about as well as the recreational drugs and their shit eating that gave them the heart problems.
If anything on a gram my heart is way better now and I have the echocardiograms and cardiac MRIs to prove it.
So stop listening to all the “experts” online that are full of shit and demonise everything and start opening your eyes to what’s really going on.