Hematocrit 51% and short of breath. Donate blood?

[Dr JIM]

On the 9th week of test e 500 cycle. So recently I sometimes get short breath and heart discomfort if I don't sleep well the day before. My Hematocrit is 51% which is high. BP is 130/70, Hr 70 to 80. Should I donate blood? Does it help? Does Hematocrit rebound after a few days?

If you believe a crit of 51% causes SOB in those with normal cardiopulmonary function you are WRONG, w few exceptions.

It's obvious your young and prob to young to be cycling AAS with a limited fund of knowledge and no precycle labs.

Find out what the CAUSE of your symptoms are before rendering therapy in some blind manner, and the best means of doing that is to see your DOC!

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Red blood cells have a life of 120 days. It will take that long to return to normal on natural processes
Donate blood now.
Dont be like me. I waited too long to donate during my 1st year of heavy blast n cruising. I didnt have a plan to maintain my health and dontating wasnt on my radar. That was until i developed a heart murmor. No previous heart issues. Solely the cause of hormone abuse and not having a clue about how to take care of it
Now i donate regularly. Get the red cross app. Helps scheduling and seeing when drives will be in your area. Makes things very simple.
Just reminds me. I need to schedule again

 

[Dr JIM]

Go donate dude, hematocrit too high will make you stroke out

And in the absence of other ASCVD risk factors at what Hct level is the incidence of CVA increased?

Such commentary should be QUALIFIED!

 

[ambulldog]

Red blood cells have a life of 120 days. It will take that long to return to normal on natural processes
Donate blood now.
Dont be like me. I waited too long to donate during my 1st year of heavy blast n cruising. I didnt have a plan to maintain my health and dontating wasnt on my radar. That was until i developed a heart murmor. No previous heart issues. Solely the cause of hormone abuse and not having a clue about how to take care of it
Now i donate regularly. Get the red cross app. Helps scheduling and seeing when drives will be in your area. Makes things very simple.
Just reminds me. I need to schedule again

Yep. But the expert i was going back and forth with doesnt find it necessary lol. Some people never cease to amaze me

 

[Nat2Syn]

Yep. But the expert i was going back and forth with doesnt find it necessary lol. Some people never cease to amaze me

Maybe its because there are ppl in this thread making him panic with only levels at 51% HCT.... its completely uneccessary to panic at that level. And I never once stated donating blood is a bad idea, I repeated it multiple times that donating is probably the safe option which you seem to completely ignore. But I am also giving my insight on other options he has since I have personally done extensive research on high HCT. As Dr JIM stated ITT shortness of breath should not be a caused by his HCT level.

 

[ambulldog]

Maybe its because there are ppl in this thread making him panic with only levels at 51% HCT.... its completely uneccessary to panic at that level. And I never once stated donating blood is a bad idea, I repeated it multiple times that donating is probably the safe option which you seem to completely ignore. But I am also giving my insight on other options he has since I have personally done extensive research on high HCT. As Dr JIM stated ITT shortness of breath should not be a caused by his HCT level.

Panic, no. But doing the proper thing for health is prudent.

Im sure dr jim would not agree that leaving crit high is a good idea. He only referenced the shortness of breath. 2 different issues

 

[Perrin Aybara]

@Nat2Syn supposedly the BP med Losartan reduces it according to some studies and from reading on forums. I went out and got some and ran it a few months and saw zero difference though. Never tried the naringin because it can affect meds like AIs.

I've done a ton of research on alternatives on this and donating/draining blood is the only real solution besides coming off. Even at 120mg/week of test mine was still high at nearly 55. I took about a pint of blood a week for about a month and it was mid to high 40's after that. With frequent donations you have to watch out for giving yourself an iron deficiency though.

 

[ambulldog]

@Nat2Syn supposedly the BP med Losartan reduces it according to some studies and from reading on forums. I went out and got some and ran it a few months and saw zero difference though. Never tried the naringin because it can affect meds like AIs.

I've done a ton of research on alternatives on this and donating/draining blood is the only real solution besides coming off. Even at 120mg/week of test mine was still high at nearly 55. I took about a pint of blood a week for about a month and it was mid to high 40's after that. With frequent donations you have to watch out for giving yourself an iron deficiency though.

Im done responding to him. He thinks its ok to walk around with high crit. I have no issue with that, its his body his choice.

But giving another guy that advice is bad

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

@Nat2Syn supposedly the BP med Losartan reduces it according to some studies and from reading on forums. I went out and got some and ran it a few months and saw zero difference though. Never tried the naringin because it can affect meds like AIs.

I've done a ton of research on alternatives on this and donating/draining blood is the only real solution besides coming off. Even at 120mg/week of test mine was still high at nearly 55. I took about a pint of blood a week for about a month and it was mid to high 40's after that. With frequent donations you have to watch out for giving yourself an iron deficiency though.

Yeah, coming off is the only REAL solution
Im not a fan of thinners unless i had a pre existing, which i dont.
Donating is good maintenaince but its only a short term solution.
Long term solution is being smart about cycling and trt and following equal time OFF as you ar ON or double time OFF as you are ON

 

[Dr JIM]

1) Red blood cells have a life of 120 days. It will take that long to return to normal on natural processes

2) I waited too long to donate during my 1st year of heavy blast n cruising.


3) That was until i developed a heart murmor.

1) agreed and that's one reason why a 12 week on/off cycle interval is suggested as it enables normalization of ones RBC count

2) and B&C is THE reason you and those like you MAY develop an elevated Crit, but most do NOT "need" to donate blood on a therapeutic basis

3) there are many causes of a heart murmur and although an elevated Crit can result in more turbulent blood flow, such alterations per se are inconsequential

 

[Nat2Syn]

@Nat2Syn supposedly the BP med Losartan reduces it according to some studies and from reading on forums. I went out and got some and ran it a few months and saw zero difference though. Never tried the naringin because it can affect meds like AIs.

Yeah going to donate and see where my levels at after a few week.

Ordered this "swanson 100% natural naringin"
which supposedly has more naringin per cap than a whole grape juice. Saw some post on other forums seeing decrease of HCT after a while just from eating grape juice. Also if you read some reviews on the product some swear by it and recommended by some doctors.

And yeah naringin can increase bioavailability of some orals/medications. Some old school bodybuilders recommend taking naringin with your favorite steroid oral like DBOL for increase ehancement. Even with coffee as it can increase its half life.

Ingestion of grapefruit lowers elevated hematocrits in human subjects. - PubMed - NCBI

Enhanced tamoxifen bioavailability after oral administration of tamoxifen in rats pretreated with naringin. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

1) agreed and that's one reason why a 12 week on/off cycle interval is suggested as it enables normalization of ones RBC count

2) and B&C is THE reason you and those like you MAY develop an elevated Crit, but most do NOT "need" to donate blood on a therapeutic basis

3) there are many causes of a heart murmur and although an elevated Crit can result in more turbulent blood flow, such alterations per se are inconsequential

Yes sir
I never had a heart murmor before and i understand B&C may not be the sole cause for developing a murmor. But it didnt help either.
I seem fine and in good health according to my daily BP i pull at home with my expensive monitor i bought and my physicals i must have for work. The murmor seems to go away when HCT and BP is in check or is at least masked?

 

[Dr JIM]

@Nat2Syn


I've done a ton of research on alternatives on this and donating/draining blood is the only real solution besides coming off.

.

And this sentiment has been propagated on PED forums as if there in no end point to the rise in H/H with continued use of AAS, which is simply not the case, IME or based on existing literature.

The fact is although most folk who B&C will reach higher Crits than those who CYCLE periodically few need to donate blood on a therapeutic basis.


Thus for the overwhelming majority of AAS runners blood donation is an option rather than a requirement.

How prophetic BB feel the need to donate blood yet legitimate CYCLISTS
are BUSTED for raising their HH!

Now why is that! More bro-science that that needs to be qualified or outright dismissed as another myth!

 

[Dr JIM]

Yes sir
I never had a heart murmor before and i understand B&C may not be the sole cause for developing a murmor. But it didnt help either.
I seem fine and in good health according to my daily BP i pull at home with my expensive monitor i bought and my physicals i must have for work. The murmor seems to go away when HCT and BP is in check or is at least masked?

Did your Doc obtain an Echo?

Let me guess, no, bc he was not concerned as the Murmur "low grade"?

 

[Perrin Aybara]

And this sentiment has been propagated on PED forums as if there in no end point to the rise in H/H with continued use of AAS, which is simply not the case, IME or based on existing literature.

The fact is although most folk who B&C will reach higher Crits than those who CYCLE periodically few need to donate blood on a therapeutic basis.


Thus for the overwhelming majority of AAS runners blood donation is an option rather than a requirement.

How prophetic BB feel the need to donate blood yet legitimate CYCLISTS
are BUSTED for raising their HH!

Now why is that! More bro-science that that needs to be qualified or outright dismissed as another myth!

I'm not saying there's no end point to rising hematocrit with AAS use. I'm just saying I don't want to find out what that point is because at mid to high 50's I was feeling pretty rough with headaches and shortness of breath. For me as someone who blasts and cruises blood donation isn't optional as I don't want to feel like that when I can easily fix it.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Did your Doc obtain an Echo?

Let me guess, no, bc he was not concerned as the Murmur "low grade"?

Affording healthcare in this country is beginning to be a pipe dream. I no longer carry health insurance due to obama care and its extremely negative financial effect on me and my families health care costs. So to answer your question, no.

"Low grade murmor" ? Is that like a thing?
Thanks for your time Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

"Low grade murmor" ? Is that like a thing?
Thanks for your time Jim

In brief murmurs are turbulent blood flow within the heart heard with a stethoscope.

Such turbulence is usually graded from I/V to V/V.

Low grade murmurs are those of
I to II /V are usually of no clinical significance and do not mandate an Echo per se.

As an aside Obama care isn't the reason health insurance is expensive bc several "low cost" policies are now available thru the government healthcare site.

The problem with almost all of these "low cost" policies is several fold

- a very low rate of physician/hospital reimbursement (for example a DX of
pharyngitis like "strep throat" your Doc receives SIXTEEN BUCKS!)

- very high deductibles or "co-insurance" riders

- locating physicians willing to accept any form of coverage in which the PATIENT must FIRST pay such high deductibles before
insurance pays squat

- discussing individual patient needs within this morass of governmental red tape approximates the impossible IME


- that's not to say these Obama plans are not worth a look see bc depending upon ones income they are uniformly much less expensive than private plans and are a hell of a lot better than going bear IMO.

- the most viable option for those with Obama type insurance ----- a University based hospital system ---- bc such facilities receive other forms of governmental subsidies.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

In brief murmurs are turbulent blood flow within the heart heard with a stethoscope.

Such turbulence is usually graded from I/V to V/V.

Low grade murmurs are those of
I to II /V are usually of no clinical significance and do not mandate an Echo per se.

As an aside Obama care isn't the reason health insurance is expensive bc several "low cost" policies are now available thru the government healthcare site.

The problem with almost all of these "low cost" policies is several fold

- a very low rate of physician/hospital reimbursement (for example a DX of
pharyngitis like "strep throat" your Doc receives SIXTEEN BUCKS!)

- very high deductibles or "co-insurance" riders

- locating physicians willing to accept any form of coverage in which the PATIENT must FIRST pay such high deductibles before
insurance pays squat

- discussing individual patient needs within this morass of governmental red tape approximates the impossible IME


- that's not to say these Obama plans are not worth a look see bc depending upon ones income they are uniformly much less expensive than private plans and are a hell of a lot better than going bear IMO.

- the most viable option for those with Obama type insurance ----- a University based hospital system ---- bc such facilities receive other forms of governmental subsidies.

Obama care cost me the same as my past unaffordable plan. Damned if you do. Damned if you dont. Its designed that way. The very poor make out and the middle class especially is doomed. My weekly insurance cost thru work quadrupled due solely to obama care.
So reasonably healthy families like mine can do OK without insurance. As long as the penalty is squashed. But the over lying problem is: why in the hell are middle class families like myself forced to go insurance-less due to overly demanding govt interference in our lives.

"Your rates WILL NOT CHANGE"
A statement that will go down as a bold faced lie
Adios, Mr. OBAMA

 

[Dr JIM]

Obama care cost me the same as my past unaffordable plan. Damned if you do. Damned if you dont. Its designed that way. The very poor make out and the middle class especially is doomed. My weekly insurance cost thru work quadrupled due solely to obama care.
So reasonably healthy families like mine can do OK without insurance. As long as the penalty is squashed. But the over lying problem is: why in the hell are middle class families like myself forced to go insurance-less due to overly demanding govt interference in our lives.

"Your rates WILL NOT CHANGE"
A statement that will go down as a bold faced lie
Adios, Mr. OBAMA

Oh I hear you fella.

I can tell in Texas at least there is only ONE private insurance carrier who provides INDIVIDUAL health insurance coverage, BC/BS.

(Yet employee based BC/BS PPO plans saw no more than a 2% overall increase in premiums)

And I KNOW of one fella who saw his "HMO Silver" plan for a family of four increase from $1541.37 to $2679.12 PER MONTH!

Why?

Bc BC/BS had cited a several BILLION dollar loss in Texas alone ------ BALONEY --- BULLSHIT---- NUTS ---- I would love for an independent accounting firm to review how their books were cooked.

Now there's something wrong in a system that allows a SINGLE provider to raise rates that are double what that gent is paying for his damn home mortgage!

It's the antithesis of a free market system that has allowed this crap to happen.

So WHY? Because BC/BS knows it's much easier to argue with an individual
esp those w a limited fund of knowledge with respect to health care costs

And far to many Texas politicians are more concerned about the profits being generated by health insurance companies rather than those individuals these peanut counters are charged to serve ----- PATIENTS!

The solution STARTS with allowing the free market system work and that can only begin once those barriers that LIMIT COMPETITION are removed!

I mention this bc OBAMA CARE has nothing to do with what is going on in Texas


​

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Oh I hear you fella.

I can tell in Texas at least there is only ONE private insurance carrier who provides INDIVIDUAL health insurance coverage, BC/BS.

(Yet employee based BC/BS PPO plans saw no more than a 2% overall increase in premiums)

And I KNOW of one fella who saw his "HMO Silver" plan for a family of four increase from $1541.37 to $2679.12 PER MONTH!

Why?

Bc BC/BS had cited a several BILLION dollar loss in Texas alone ------ BALONEY --- BULLSHIT---- NUTS ---- I would love for an independent accounting firm to review how their books were cooked.

Now there's something wrong in a system that allows a SINGLE provider to raise rates that are double what that gent is paying for his damn home mortgage!

It's the antithesis of a free market system that has allowed this crap to happen.

So WHY? Because BC/BS knows it's much easier to argue with an individual
esp those w a limited fund of knowledge with respect to health care costs

And far to many Texas politicians are more concerned about the profits being generated by health insurance companies rather than those individuals these peanut counters are charged to serve ----- PATIENTS!

The solution STARTS with allowing the free market system work and that can only begin once those barriers that LIMIT COMPETITION are removed!

I mention this bc OBAMA CARE has nothing to do with what is going on in Texas


​

Good to know. I have never heard any of that
I was with cigna though