HGH and IGF-1 levels

[stevonov]

I decided to do a igf1 test a while back and it came back in the normal range at 4iu per day. I figured it was the batch and tried two more tests with two more kits with a different batch number and still within normal range. I thought it was the Chinese generic so I got seros directly from a person prescribed and did 2 iu per day for a month and still same igf1 number. The UG source told me its because I have been on so long and to take a break. Does long term use effect igf1 levels? can you have elevated serum tests and still not get high igf1 numbers? never had it tested in beginning and was probably a year in straight when I took my first igf1 test. all bloodwork and liver normal. only health problems were pancreas during some tren cycles.

 

[DragoT]

Another interesting case. Without trying to hijack the thread, I have to mention that when I was reading about Acromegaly for this other tread, I've stumbled upon few case studies about patients with Acromegaly symptoms and normal IGF-1 levels.

Why I am mention this: Elevated (abnormal) IGF-1 levels will down regulate GH secretion via negative loop back mechanism. However, in the above cases, IGF-1 was within normal age adjusted levels and yet abnormally high GH secretion was detected.

What I am trying to say is - while I could not find as of why "abnormally high GH secretion" cause Acromegaly, the fact IGF-1 levels were not also elevated is an evidence that some "other" factors can affect GH to IGF-1 conversion...

 

[stevonov]

maybe it has something to do with the pancreas damage I did on the tren. always had trouble regulating blood sugar on tren and would end up getting acute pancreatitis.

 

[DragoT]

Here is just one example: Acromegaly presenting with low insulin-like growth factor-1 levels and diabetes: a case report

I am not trying to scare you, but in your place I would stop exogenous GH administration immediately until the root cause for your condition is found.

 

[stevonov]

all tests were between 180 and 200. will have to look up old tests for baseline but its not much higher.

 

[Wunderpus]

Another interesting case. Without trying to hijack the thread, I have to mention that when I was reading about Acromegaly for this other tread, I've stumbled upon few case studies about patients with Acromegaly symptoms and normal IGF-1 levels.

Why I am mention this: Elevated (abnormal) IGF-1 levels will down regulate GH secretion via negative loop back mechanism. However, in the above cases, IGF-1 was within normal age adjusted levels and yet abnormally high GH secretion was detected.

What I am trying to say is - while I could not find as of why "abnormally high GH secretion" cause Acromegaly, the fact IGF-1 levels were not also elevated is an evidence that some "other" factors can affect GH to IGF-1 conversion...

Important to note this is only relevant to endogenous GH secretion... Exogenous GH isn't effected by the negative feedback loop. So, I don't believe his IGF-1 levels will be effected. This is why I prefer split dosing of GH (every 4 hours if you can).

 

[stevonov]

stopped hgh and tren still on trt. still had one low blood sugar episode so who knows whats going on. tested 107 blood sugar fasting wich has happened in a few other tests but its usually normal.

 

[stevonov]

always did one dose at night and all tests were done in morning.

 

[DragoT]

Important to note this is only relevant to endogenous GH secretion... Exogenous GH isn't effected by the negative feedback loop.

Precisely! If abnormal secretion (i.e. large pulses more often than normal) can cause Acromegaly without elevating IFG-1, continuous exogenous GH (simulating large pulses) could be problematic in this context.

 

[Wunderpus]

Precisely! If abnormal secretion (i.e. large pulses more often than normal) can cause Acromegaly without elevating IFG-1, continuous exogenous GH (simulating large pulses) could be problematic in this context.

That makes sense, yes.

I do think GH is best cycled and tapered... So, take time off then start with something like 2iu for a month or 6 weeks, increase to 4iu/day, etc. etc. I don't believe there are any exogenous hormones (minus diabetics needing insulin etc.) that are best run continually and at stable doses for long periods of time.

*edit* there is a point of diminishing returns with GH until you administer insulin and higher anabolics, too.

 

[mands]

I decided to do a igf1 test a while back and it came back in the normal range at 4iu per day. I figured it was the batch and tried two more tests with two more kits with a different batch number and still within normal range. I thought it was the Chinese generic so I got seros directly from a person prescribed and did 2 iu per day for a month and still same igf1 number. The UG source told me its because I have been on so long and to take a break. Does long term use effect igf1 levels? can you have elevated serum tests and still not get high igf1 numbers? never had it tested in beginning and was probably a year in straight when I took my first igf1 test. all bloodwork and liver normal. only health problems were pancreas during some tren cycles.

I think you answered your question already. You only ran 2 iu's pharm grade vs. 4 iu's generic(is this a known and trusted brand).

What was your IGF-1 levels on 2 iu's pharm grade? Because 2 iu's most likely will put you in normal range.

You should've tested with 4 iu's pharm grade.

mands

 

[stevonov]

it was 750 for barely a months worth of seros so I was trying to stretch it out. was 180 something on 2iu on 4iu blacktop was 200

 

[stevonov]

ive heard of people in the 500's on 4iu generic

 

[DragoT]

@mands Yet another excellent point!

All online resources refer to 75 - 80 points IGF-1 increase from 1IU pharma (no one did studies on Chinese non-pharma, lol).

 

[mands]

it was 750 for barely a months worth of seros so I was trying to stretch it out. was 180 something on 2iu on 4iu blacktop was 200

So your igf-1 levels on 2 iu's pharm grade seem pretty close to what mine are. Were you taking anything else besides Tren while on them?

They were black tops from PD or TP?

I think most are reconstituting blacks at 10 iu's that are getting those numbers. And some just respond better than others.

What was your baseline?

mands

 

[stevonov]

was also taking masteron and test prop. I would have to dig up old bloods for natty baseline since i have been on trt for a decade but I have been as high as 170 on cycle with no hgh. so to only have a 10 point raise on hg hgh doesn't seem right. about 6 kits were tp and 6 were pd. sero was from aids patient.

 

[mands]

was also taking masteron and test prop. I would have to dig up old bloods for natty baseline since i have been on trt for a decade but I have been as high as 170 on cycle with no hgh. so to only have a 10 point raise on hg hgh doesn't seem right. about 6 kits were tp and 6 were pd. sero was from aids patient.

Exogenous GH shuts down your natural GH release. 2 iu's of pharm grade and a level of 180 is to be expected IMO. I wouldn't even run GH at 2 iu's if your natural levels are around 170. It's a waste of money.

mands

 

[janoshik]

Exogenous GH shuts down your natural GH release

source, please?

 

[Wunderpus]

source, please?

I went digging for a source for this info... But I was delayed by finding a ton of evidence of you falsifying lab results...

Are you looking for this sort of data, or real data?

 

[mands]

source, please?

Exogenous growth hormone inhibits growth hormone-releasing factor-induced growth hormone secretion in normal men.

mands