HGH and IGF-1 levels

[janoshik]

I have numbered these so that they are easier to follow.

1. Absolutely not was the study I posted done with 192 aa hgh. Please point me in the right direction where it states that.

2. You are correct that's not sufficient. What logic? How is your eyes/studies does the negative feedback loop work with the pituitary regarding GH?

3. I would like to see them. Baseline and then on 1 iu.

4. Depending on what his baseline IGF-1 levels are.

I would not say I have let it go. He lied and messed up. I have had conversations with him civilly because he gave me his word that he would not post and solicit his services on meso but try and contribute.

He had done that until recently. So, there is another lie in itself. You of all people @Just Fish I would've never thought in a million years you would come to defend someone like that. Pretty disappointing to say the least. In your defense though @jano and I have shared informative posts since the incident.

@Wunderpus sees the big picture and does not like what happened to me and others. He's as real as it gets and isn't wrong much when it comes to character and sniffing out bullshit.

mands

1. see image attached. I hope I made it clear enough.

2. generally, negative feedback loops never work 100% with exogenous adiminstration. if you supplement 100% of the hormone equivalent to natural production, you won't shut the feedback 100%.

3. I am not sharing my bloodwork for obvious reasons.

 

[janoshik]

I would not say I have let it go. He lied and messed up. I have had conversations with him civilly because he gave me his word that he would not post and solicit his services on meso but try and contribute.

He had done that until recently. So, there is another lie in itself. You of all people @Just Fish I would've never thought in a million years you would come to defend someone like that. Pretty disappointing to say the least. In your defense though @jano and I have shared informative posts since the incident.

@Wunderpus sees the big picture and does not like what happened to me and others. He's as real as it gets and isn't wrong much when it comes to character and sniffing out bullshit.

mands

Where exactly did I solicit my services?

What the hell are you even talking about when accusing me?

 

[Wunderpus]

No, you are being an obnoxious pain in the ass by needlessly shitting up another thread with a completely unrelated topic. Don't try to make it look otherwise.

You say there is no need for discussion and yet you do an awful lot of talking.

Yes, I did indeed provide mands with false information at a point.

So, to clarify, the whole story about you allegedly testing Mands sample, then your "gilfriend" reapplying a bandaid in the same exact manner as Mands did, then resending the package back to him, was a lie? Let's clarify which parts were not true, or we can move it into a more relevant thread, as for some reason it seems to irk you that it's in this thread...

 

[janoshik]

Pat yourself on the back for being a real contribution.

mands can help you with that, I guess.

 

[janoshik]

So, to clarify, the whole story about you allegedly testing Mands sample, then your "gilfriend" reapplying a bandaid in the same exact manner as Mands did, then resending the package back to him, was a lie? Let's clarify which parts were not true, or we can move it into a more relevant thread, as for some reason it seems to irk you that it's in this thread...

Well, it's all there, except the girlfriend was yours, just didn't want to break to to you this way.

 

[Wunderpus]

Well, it's all there, except the girlfriend was yours, just didn't want to break to to you this way.

"Quality contribution"

You mock mine, and degrade them, yet post garbage like this yourself. We get it, Jano, you were caught and just NOW admitted it... I never involved my girlfriend into it, but you involved your alleged girlfriend into this with your circle of lies. I wonder how all your source buddies would feel if they knew you publicly stated you falsified results? I bet you'd lose a lot of credibility over on those boards that you still make money on, right? Hmm.

 

[mands]

No, you are being an obnoxious pain in the ass by needlessly shitting up another thread with a completely unrelated topic. Don't try to make it look otherwise.

You say there is no need for discussion and yet you do an awful lot of talking.

Yes, I did indeed provide mands with false information at a point.

He's a pain in the ass for a reason.

Thanks for the above information and pointing out the type of GH in the study. But, as we know the two act similar and are compared to each other with response in many ways. Just not the bioavailability to raise igf-1 levels.

Where exactly did I solicit my services?

What the hell are you even talking about when accusing me?

Start here and read the posts.

Blacks 24 vs 29

mands

 

[janoshik]

"Quality contribution"

You mock mine, and degrade them, yet post garbage like this yourself. We get it, Jano, you were caught and just NOW admitted it... I never involved my girlfriend into it, but you involved your alleged girlfriend into this with your circle of lies. I wonder how all your source buddies would feel if they knew you publicly stated you falsified results? I bet you'd lose a lot of credibility over on those boards that you still make money on, right? Hmm.

So am I, yet again, held to a impossible standard that nobody else but me has to keep up to? Or is it only you who got the shit talking permit?

Where exactly did I state I falsified results?

Reading comprehension 101.

He's a pain in the ass for a reason.

Thanks for the above information and pointing out the type of GH in the study. But, as we know the two act similar and are compared to each other with response in many ways. Just not the bioavailability to raise igf-1 levels.

And have you not used IGF-1 as one of your main arguments in this discussion?

Blacks 24 vs 29

mands

Okay, so, how in the hell is that soliciting?

It is stating a fact as an answer to a direct question.

What would you be happy if I told the guy? That I'm a ballet dancer?

What the hell is wrong with you?



If that's the game you want to play (you know, holding me up to a standard that you hold nobody else to), I have nothing more to discuss with you mands and in case you are interested, I'll gladly let you have a peek on what soliciting looks like.

 

[mands]

So am I, yet again, held to a impossible standard that nobody else but me has to keep up to? Or is it only you who got the shit talking permit?

Where exactly did I state I falsified results?

Reading comprehension 101.


And have you not used IGF-1 as one of your main arguments in this discussion?



Okay, so, how in the hell is that soliciting?

It is stating a fact as an answer to a direct question.

What would you be happy if I told the guy? That I'm a ballet dancer?

What the hell is wrong with you?



If that's the game you want to play (you know, holding me up to a standard that you hold nobody else to), I have nothing more to discuss with you mands and in case you are interested, I'll gladly let you have a peek on what soliciting looks like.

Your arguments is ridiculous and mute.

Again your reactions to this will just show you are not a man of his word and that's all we have in this world. Remember that @jano

mands

 

[Just Fish]

I have numbered these so that they are easier to follow.

1. Absolutely not was the study I posted done with 192 aa hgh. Please point me in the right direction where it states that.

2. You are correct that's not sufficient. What logic? How is your eyes/studies does the negative feedback loop work with the pituitary regarding GH?

3. I would like to see them. Baseline and then on 1 iu.

4. Depending on what his baseline IGF-1 levels are.

I would not say I have let it go. He lied and messed up. I have had conversations with him civilly because he gave me his word that he would not post and solicit his services on meso but try and contribute.

He had done that until recently. So, there is another lie in itself. You of all people @Just Fish I would've never thought in a million years you would come to defend someone like that. Pretty disappointing to say the least. In your defense though @jano and I have shared informative posts since the incident.

@Wunderpus sees the big picture and does not like what happened to me and others. He's as real as it gets and isn't wrong much when it comes to character and sniffing out bullshit.

mands

I'm not defending him. We all know where he stands. I was just saying that he is contributing. I've actually gotten a lot out of some of his posts including the few between the 2 of you

 

[Wunderpus]

So am I, yet again, held to a impossible standard that nobody else but me has to keep up to? Or is it only you who got the shit talking permit?

Where exactly did I state I falsified results?

Reading comprehension 101.

For reading comprehension 201 we will go over my above post that asks which things you lied about in detail...

 

[Just Fish]

No, you are being an obnoxious pain in the ass by needlessly shitting up another thread with a completely unrelated topic. Don't try to make it look otherwise.

You say there is no need for discussion and yet you do an awful lot of talking.

Yes, I did indeed provide mands with false information at a point.

Dam, I wish you had just done that months ago. Would have avoided a lot of bs

 

[Just Fish]

1. see image attached. I hope I made it clear enough. View attachment 78056

2. generally, negative feedback loops never work 100% with exogenous adiminstration. if you supplement 100% of the hormone equivalent to natural production, you won't shut the feedback 100%.

3. I am not sharing my bloodwork for obvious reasons.

Why can't you share bloodwork?

 

[master.on]

Another interesting case. Without trying to hijack the thread, I have to mention that when I was reading about Acromegaly for this other tread, I've stumbled upon few case studies about patients with Acromegaly symptoms and normal IGF-1 levels.

Why I am mention this: Elevated (abnormal) IGF-1 levels will down regulate GH secretion via negative loop back mechanism. However, in the above cases, IGF-1 was within normal age adjusted levels and yet abnormally high GH secretion was detected.

What I am trying to say is - while I could not find as of why "abnormally high GH secretion" cause Acromegaly, the fact IGF-1 levels were not also elevated is an evidence that some "other" factors can affect GH to IGF-1 conversion...

I've read the same thing.
GH and IGF1 don't have equivalent activities

If you're a wealthy, hardcore bodybuilder who can afford real pharma GH
both prescribed by a doctor and bought at real pharmacies you should ask your doctor for IGF-1 (Increlex) prescriptions instead

A mediocre IGF-1 dose (we're talking real pharma Increlex here, BS research peptides need not apply) beats high dose GH.
More gains, better fat burning with much less side effects.

 

[Eman]

I don't think you have the mental capacity to come up with something that would offend me, honestly.

Your arms are small.

Mwahaha... I got ya, didn't I?

Yes, I did indeed provide mands with false information at a point.

Care to explain?

You're really not being held to an impossible standard, jano. Unless being honest is impossible, but I don't think that's the case.

 

[Wunderpus]

Your arms are small.

Mwahaha... I got ya, didn't I?



Care to explain?

You're really not being held to an impossible standard, jano. Unless being honest is impossible, but I don't think that's the case.

Prepare for a very broad and ambiguous answer, if there is even one at all. He knows he fucked up by publicly saying he lied to Mands, now he's scurrying to try and figure out what he can admit to have lied about that would be the least catastrophic.

We all know he lied about the test results, a monkey could figure that out.

 

[mands]

2. generally, negative feedback loops never work 100% with exogenous adiminstration. if you supplement 100% of the hormone equivalent to natural production, you won't shut the feedback 100%.

So, if you supplement/administer testosterone at 100% of what you produce naturally your natural production won't shut down?

mands

 

[janoshik]

Your arguments is ridiculous and mute.

Again your reactions to this will just show you are not a man of his word and that's all we have in this world. Remember that @jano

mands

You have failed to answer all the questions asked mands. Talk about being ridiculous.

Empty words you got there.

I'm not defending him. We all know where he stands. I was just saying that he is contributing. I've actually gotten a lot out of some of his posts including the few between the 2 of you

They're trying to create him or us situation, so you'd stop writing anything that goes against their argument.

Dam, I wish you had just done that months ago. Would have avoided a lot of bs

Me too.

Unfortunately I act unreasonably when I am mad and this place and all the characters in here have their special way of making me mad.

Why can't you share bloodwork?

Legal reasons. I am far from anonymous and submitting anything that would imply existence of proof I use performance enhancing drugs is simply not smart.

Care to explain?

You're really not being held to an impossible standard, jano. Unless being honest is impossible, but I don't think that's the case.

The situation went as I said, except the vial tested was not one from mands, but rather the identical vial I already had available.

By being held to an impossible standard I mean the fact that mands considers mention of my job an active solicitation. Don't you agree with me here?

So, if you supplement/administer testosterone at 100% of what you produce naturally your natural production won't shut down?

mands

Correct. That's what I am saying.

 

[DragoT]

So, if you supplement/administer testosterone at 100% of what you produce naturally your natural production won't shut down?

On another occasion I have expressed my view of the body functions as "machine" where logic does apply on every step... Anyway...

When body needs fuel (food), it produces Ghrelin which increases appetite (and by proxy makes your stomach hurt as a reminder it is time to eat), and when full - Leptin which suppresses appetite so you don't stuff yourself to death.

Same (I assume) with GH. The body does not "pulse" GH just like that - it reacts to somatocrinin (GHRH). GHRH in turn, is stimulated besides other factor, by Ghrelin i.e. when we are hungry, which can explain why my grandmother did not allowed food after 8pm and I thought "old folks bullshit". Somehow she knew... We go to bed few hours after last meal, get in to REM in (semi) fasted state and the pulse "happens".

"The secretion of GHRH increases in response to physical and emotional stress, and its secretion is blocked by a powerful hypothalamic neurohormone called somatostatin. The secretion of GHRH is also inhibited by insulin-like growth factors, which are generated when tissues are exposed to growth hormone itself."

If Britannica is right, sharp raise in IGF-1 due to normal pulse would suppress GHRH secretion thus no stimulation of GH production will occur.

One of the two tests for Acromegaly is Glucose test (the other of course is abnormal age adjusted IGF-1 level.) Basically, the subject is asked to drink sugary drink and blood is drawn every 30 minutes for duration of three hours. If serum is above 0.1 (i.e. non detectable), abnormal secretion is diagnosed.

So... to translate this on my grandmother language - Dinner no late than 8pm and no sweets either if you want to pulse GH on your own.

As for suppression due to exogenous GH, I am beginning to form an opinion that the entire dose should be administered in the morning, in fasted state, where body will have enough time to recover where natural GHRH secretion will occur stimulating the REM pulse. This, of course, if one still produces GH in sufficient amount.

In my case, with baseline of only 96, I don't even consider testing this theory. It will be waste of time.

 

[mands]

Correct. That's what I am saying.

Okay I'll bite on this one.

Are you saying (1) shot or continuous use of testosterone at 100%?

mands