HGH and IGF-1 levels

[janoshik]

Okay I'll bite on this one.

Are you saying (1) shot or continuous use of testosterone at 100%?

mands

Even continuous. Am I wrong?

What is equivalent of normal production per week? 50mg?

 

[mands]

And have you not used IGF-1 as one of your main arguments in this discussion?



Okay, so, how in the hell is that soliciting?

It is stating a fact as an answer to a direct question.

What would you be happy if I told the guy? That I'm a ballet dancer?

What the hell is wrong with you?

Here you go...

Exogenous 20K growth hormone (GH) suppresses endogenous 22K GH secretion in normal men.
Hashimoto Y1, Kamioka T, Hosaka M, Mabuchi K, Mizuchi A, Shimazaki Y, Tsunoo M, Tanaka T.
Author information

Abstract
The physiological and pharmacological functions of the 20-kDa human GH (20K-hGH) isoform are unknown. We conducted a pharmacokinetic study of recombinant 20K-hGH in human subjects (Phase I clinical trial). Placebo or 20K-hGH was administered sc to normal men (20-31 yr of age, n = 6-8 per group) at 2100 h. Serum 20K- and 22K-hGH levels were monitored every 30 min for 24 h by specific enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays. Serum free fatty acid, insulin-like growth factor I, insulin, and glucose levels were measured for 24 h. In the placebo group, the secretion profiles of endogenous 20K- and 22K-hGH were pulsatile and similar to each other. The proportion of 20K- to 22K-hGH was fairly constant. In the 20K-hGH-treated groups, serum 20K-hGH levels increased in a dose-dependent manner over the dose range of 0.01-0.1 mg/kg. Maximum serum 20K-hGH levels were reached at 3-4 h and decreased with half-lives of 2-3 h. Marked suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH secretion was observed in a time-dependent manner. Serum free fatty acid and insulin-like growth factor I levels were significantly elevated (P < 0.01) at 4, 8, and 12 h and at 8, 12, and 24 h after 20K-hGH administration, respectively. Serum insulin and glucose levels did not change significantly within 24 h. These results suggested that: 1) regulation of 20K-hGH secretion is physiologically the same as that of 22K-hGH; 2) the pharmacokinetics after sc injection of 20K-hGH are comparable with those of 22K-hGH; 3) 20K-hGH regulates hGH secretion through "GH-induced negative feedback mechanisms"; and 4) administration of 20K-hGH is expected to exert GH actions (growth-promoting activity and lipolytic activity). Monitoring of serum 20K- and 22K-hGH levels may be useful in evaluating the effects of administered GH isoforms on their own release from the pituitary.

If you read further down the thread I referenced you can clearly see a member asking for your services after you posted that. It's pretty clear.

mands

 

[mands]

Even continuous. Am I wrong?

What is equivalent of normal production per week? 50mg?

Yes I believe you are incorrect! Do you have any info stating differntly?

Around 50 mg for a young male give or take. For an older male around 30 mg a week roughly. Just depends on the individual.

mands

 

[Just Fish]

Legal reasons. I am far from anonymous and submitting anything that would imply existence of proof I use performance enhancing drugs is simply not smart.

Why can't you just post your buddy's bloodwork?

 

[janoshik]

Why can't you just post your buddy's bloodwork?

He didn't let me yet.

 

[MFMC]

So your igf-1 levels on 2 iu's pharm grade seem pretty close to what mine are. Were you taking anything else besides Tren while on them?

They were black tops from PD or TP?

I think most are reconstituting blacks at 10 iu's that are getting those numbers. And some just respond better than others.

What was your baseline?

mands

@mands Yet another excellent point!

All online resources refer to 75 - 80 points IGF-1 increase from 1IU pharma (no one did studies on Chinese non-pharma, lol).

I had my IGF -1 level at 362 and this was on 2 iu of pharm grade per day.... I felt pretty good-- would it be a decent level to try to maintain? Switching to black tops I am thinking I would need to run at least 3 iu per day....

Maybe I respond well?? I am thinking 4iu plus may be overkill---- I am just about 47 and on trt for life so I have no problem staying on hgh for life as well.

 

[Just Fish]

I had my IGF -1 level at 362 and this was on 2 iu of pharm grade per day.... I felt pretty good-- would it be a decent level to try to maintain? Switching to black tops I am thinking I would need to run at least 3 iu per day....

Maybe I respond well?? I am thinking 4iu plus may be overkill---- I am just about 47 and on trt for life so I have no problem staying on hgh for life as well.

What was your baseline?

 

[MFMC]

What was your baseline?

baseline was 142

 

[mands]

I had my IGF -1 level at 362 and this was on 2 iu of pharm grade per day.... I felt pretty good-- would it be a decent level to try to maintain? Switching to black tops I am thinking I would need to run at least 3 iu per day....

Maybe I respond well?? I am thinking 4iu plus may be overkill---- I am just about 47 and on trt for life so I have no problem staying on hgh for life as well.

I would actually see what black top # you have and find out mg and reconstitute accordingly. I would run the same amount at 2 iu's.

How long were you on pharm grade when you tested?

mands

 

[Deleted member 59947]

I decided to do a igf1 test a while back and it came back in the normal range at 4iu per day. I figured it was the batch and tried two more tests with two more kits with a different batch number and still within normal range. I thought it was the Chinese generic so I got seros directly from a person prescribed and did 2 iu per day for a month and still same igf1 number. The UG source told me its because I have been on so long and to take a break. Does long term use effect igf1 levels? can you have elevated serum tests and still not get high igf1 numbers? never had it tested in beginning and was probably a year in straight when I took my first igf1 test. all bloodwork and liver normal. only health problems were pancreas during some tren cycles.

For what it's worth my IGF-1 went from 202 to 356 after 4 days on 5iu generics

 

[MFMC]

I would actually see what black top # you have and find out mg and reconstitute accordingly. I would run the same amount at 2 iu's.

How long were you on pharm grade when you tested?

mands

I was on it for 4 months--- I have now started batch 31 from pd.

 

[janoshik]

Here you go...

Exogenous 20K growth hormone (GH) suppresses endogenous 22K GH secretion in normal men.
Hashimoto Y1, Kamioka T, Hosaka M, Mabuchi K, Mizuchi A, Shimazaki Y, Tsunoo M, Tanaka T.
Author information

Abstract
...

If you read further down the thread I referenced you can clearly see a member asking for your services after you posted that. It's pretty clear.

mands

Nice abstract.

So, instead of copy-pasting an abstract, please, highlight the relevant part supporting your argument please.



Also, please, elaborate how a member asking for my services is me soliciting them, Mands.

 

[master.on]

All scientific evidence points out that GH suppression is ALWAYS TEMPORARY and quickly self-resolving.

 

[janoshik]

Nice abstract.

So, instead of copy-pasting an abstract, please, highlight the relevant part supporting your argument please.

@mands

 

[janoshik]

Seems like I'm not getting an answer from @mands so I'm just thinking I'll paste this here:

"Although the mean serum 22K-GH levels after injection were not different even at higher doses compared to the placebo group during the first 4 h, the 22K-hGH levels were reduced even at lower doses from approximately 4–6 h up to 12 h. During the subsequent 24-h observation period, the 22K-hGH levels gradually returned to the placebo level."

"Both the AUC12–18 h and AUC18–24 h tended to be suppressed in the 20K-hGH-treated groups, although differences were not significant compared with the placebo group."


Have a nice day mands and read the studies you copy paste, just to make sure they do not help a stance which you are trying to make a point against.

 

[mands]

Seems like I'm not getting an answer from @mands so I'm just thinking I'll paste this here:

"Although the mean serum 22K-GH levels after injection were not different even at higher doses compared to the placebo group during the first 4 h, the 22K-hGH levels were reduced even at lower doses from approximately 4–6 h up to 12 h. During the subsequent 24-h observation period, the 22K-hGH levels gradually returned to the placebo level."

"Both the AUC12–18 h and AUC18–24 h tended to be suppressed in the 20K-hGH-treated groups, although differences were not significant compared with the placebo group."


Have a nice day mands and read the studies you copy paste, just to make sure they do not help a stance which you are trying to make a point against.

The purpose of my post was to your reply that the original study was 192 aa. I said they both had the same effect on endogenous GH secretion and that levels were suppressed to almost nothing. I then posted another study showing you this. You even posted above. I bolded it for you.

Therefore your statement was inaccurate saying your normal pulses would not be interrupted at night if you took your gh in the morning. You were wrong.

Good day.

mands

 

[janoshik]

The purpose of my post was to your reply that the original study was 192 aa. I said they both had the same effect on endogenous GH secretion and that levels were suppressed to almost nothing.

Thank you for letting me know that now. Not like asked twice before.

...levels were suppressed to almost nothing.

I then posted another study showing you this. You even posted above. I bolded it for you.

Therefore your statement was inaccurate saying your normal pulses would not be interrupted at night if you took your gh in the morning. You were wrong.

Good day.

mands

Gradual return over 24 hours means suppressed to almost nothing in your book?

Also let me also bold another quote for you, which you might have overlooked.

"Both the AUC12–18 h and AUC18–24 h tended to be suppressed in the 20K-hGH-treated groups, although differences were not significant compared with the placebo group."



Like I said in my first reaction to you, you are mistaking shutdown with mild suppression and spreading bad advice based upon that.

I am fairly sure I am not wrong and it's not me who has an issue interpreting data.

Any input from other people would be welcome. ( @Doug_S , Whaddya think, am I interpreting this wrong? )

Have a nice evening.

 

[bob hughes]

So am I, yet again, held to a impossible standard that nobody else but me has to keep up to? Or is it only you who got the shit talking permit?

Where exactly did I state I falsified results?

Reading comprehension 101.


And have you not used IGF-1 as one of your main arguments in this discussion?



Okay, so, how in the hell is that soliciting?

It is stating a fact as an answer to a direct question.

What would you be happy if I told the guy? That I'm a ballet dancer?

What the hell is wrong with you?



If that's the game you want to play (you know, holding me up to a standard that you hold nobody else to), I have nothing more to discuss with you mands and in case you are interested, I'll gladly let you have a peek on what soliciting looks like.

Lol oh man just skimmed through that whole saga. Soliciting or not, you present yourself on here as a professional, but scamming a member here, for what a couple hundred bucks tops, shows that either your financial situation is beyond dire, or that there is no such lab to begin with. Either way, total Amateur hour and an absolute disgrace. You got a lot of sack to still be here I'll give you that lol. And caught red-handed and still be talking shit to mands. Truly unbelievable.

 

[janoshik]

Lol oh man just skimmed through that whole saga. Soliciting or not, you present yourself on here as a professional, but scamming a member here, for what a couple hundred bucks tops, shows that either your financial situation is beyond dire, or that there is no such lab to begin with. Either way, total Amateur hour and an absolute disgrace. You got a lot of sack to still be here I'll give you that lol. And caught red-handed and still be talking shit to mands. Truly unbelievable.

kkthxbb

Lack of reading comprehension 101 in play again, but I am too tired this early in the morning and honestly, I don't even care anymore. If somebody can't read, it's not my problem.

 

[Oldman.]

kkthxbb

Lack of reading comprehension 101 in play again, but I am too tired this early in the morning and honestly, I don't even care anymore. If somebody can't read, it's not my problem.

I am glad I found this thread. I was considering your services. It seemed funny how you could offer these tests at 1/4 the cost every other lab charges.
Perhaps you would like to see the lab test over at eroids you did for another company? You know the one where your picture of the items being tested did not match the actual product sent you? Two totally different brands. Your excuse was that the totally different products picture was for reference purposes and was not the actual product tested? I knew that was bullshit.