HGH + Insulin timing?

[Sampei]

I have searched around and I can't find a clear answer, if you run insulin fast acting humalog novorapid etc those one, pre and post WO, do you time your HGH with insulin or it doesn't matter and you can take it before bed for example?

the timing of the insulin is very important but what about the HGH timing? for example let's say 10IU HGH. all before bed? 5IU prewo and 5IU postwo?
Is it just preference or there is a big difference when you take your HGH while injecting insulin?

 

[narta]

Doesn't matter

 

[Sampei]

Doesn't matter

Now the next question is, can insulin be used to accelerate the grow or should insulin be used only when the total carbs ingested daily are too much for the pancreas to supply enough of it?

What I mean is, if I'm eating 300-400gr of carbs would it beneficial for improved grow to use 10IU of novorapid prewo and 10IU post wo? (Gonna start with 5IU and 5IU first of course).

I know one should not eat more carbs for compensate the insulin but the insulin should be tailored around how many carbs you eat.

But should I wait to reach a specific quantity of carbs before playing with insulin? Or I can try it even now?

I'm mostly interested in trying it and see the effect it gives me especially with the 10IU of HGH I'm already doing.

I like to try new things (but it needs to have at least a minimum sense doing it or I'll postpone this experiment).

 

[narta]

Since insulin needs to be tailored to your carb intake you can use it on any given day you consume carbs. If one needs to alleviate the burden of excessive carbs on a bulk lantus should be used on top of a fast acting one.

 

[Trades]

What I mean is, if I'm eating 300-400gr of carbs would it beneficial for improved grow to use 10IU of novorapid prewo and 10IU post wo? (Gonna start with 5IU and 5IU first of course).

You can do this just shuffle your total carbs for the day around your workout window so you don't go hypo. And take a lot of BG readings to get a picture of what your body is doing with and without the insulin.

IOW, dial in your meal plan & macros and be consistent. Start with say 5iu/100g carbs and test your bg a bunch of times. Those 100g carbs come out of your 300-400 daily total. If all is good, next time make minor adjustments. After a dozen data points you'll figure out what works for you.

Keep a log and document what kind of training, sleep, and other external factors that may be impacting insulin sensitivity.

The more data you collect on yourself the better picture you'll have of what to do and how to do it.

 

[exilol]

Now the next question is, can insulin be used to accelerate the grow or should insulin be used only when the total carbs ingested daily are too much for the pancreas to supply enough of it?

What I mean is, if I'm eating 300-400gr of carbs would it beneficial for improved grow to use 10IU of novorapid prewo and 10IU post wo? (Gonna start with 5IU and 5IU first of course).

I know one should not eat more carbs for compensate the insulin but the insulin should be tailored around how many carbs you eat.

But should I wait to reach a specific quantity of carbs before playing with insulin? Or I can try it even now?

I'm mostly interested in trying it and see the effect it gives me especially with the 10IU of HGH I'm already doing.

I like to try new things (but it needs to have at least a minimum sense doing it or I'll postpone this experiment).

Look up Justin Harris and his opinions / advise on Insulin - He does one of the best Jobs explaining the pros and cons of using insulin and what to consider when deciding if it is applicable to you in your current PED stack and current nutrition... One thing you should really note is that Slin is non selective - It will shuttle whatever you have in your blood stream , so whenever you use rapid pre and post you want to limit your fat intake to as close to trace as possible .. Chicken breast over beef, Rice / COR over higher fat carbs like breads / cereals etc etc.. Invest as much time educating yourself on the topic before commiting is my 2 cents .. If used right its amazing

 

[Sampei]

So I have gathered a bit of information for now and this is my plan, trying to have you guys give me an idea if it's retarded or not: I'll start with 5IU pre wo and 5IU post WO.

I'll eat: 100gr of rice cream and then inject the insulin and go train, will bring with me pineapple juice or any sugary stuff I like and sip that during the training just to not risk to go hypo, around 30gr of carbs more or less.
Get back home, inject another 5IU and eat another 100gr of rice cream + whey shaker. wait around 2-3 hours and have a normal meal with around max 10-20gr of fat on that meal.

Does it make sense? is it bad because I'm gonna still have the Novorapid in my system and so I shouldn't eat any fat even after those 2-3 hours?

My insulin sensitivity is at the moment great, thanks to the GLP i'm injecting so my use of the insulin is in trying to shuffle all those nutrients into my muscle in a more efficient way.

 

[Trades]

Does it make sense? is it bad because I'm gonna still have the Novorapid in my system and so I shouldn't eat any fat even after those 2-3 hours?

you won't get fat if you aren't eating in a surplus. it's still cals in vs cals out.

My insulin sensitivity is at the moment great, thanks to the GLP i'm injecting so my use of the insulin is in trying to shuffle all those nutrients into my muscle in a more efficient way.

that sounds like trouble

 

[Fattyone]

Eat your pre workout meal 60 min before training or how ever long you normally do. Slin as you go into the gym, then intra shake to cover the slin is how I commonly see it.
Not fast acting covering the pre workout meal like that

 

[exilol]

Pre w/o insulin should be exactly that ... Pre w/o approx 15 mins before starting .. Not with the pre w/o meal... You need to have carbs with Eaa's , creatine, glutamine , Sipped Through the workout - should last you till your last set pretty much - evenly spread . Your Intra carbs NEED to be high enough to cover that Slin you took 15 mins prior. I typically do 10 C per IU + 15 % for innsurance ... So with 10 IU 15 min pre training I typically do 115 Carbs , 15 G eaas , 5 g creatine ,5 g glutamine . Keep Glucose Tablets in your gym bag ALWAYS and in your car as a " break glass in case of emergency " situation. also 1 IU of SLIN is ACTUALLY 1 iu on the needle .. Not like how gh is typically dosed - Make sure you know exactly what you are doing.

 

[Sampei]

Just injected 5IU insulin had 60gr rice cream 1 hour before
Went into the gym and started sipping pineapple juice 50gr carb total and had 15, minutes before creatine glutammine arginine citrulline.

Half way through, pump are amazing and I feel fucking great.
Got more pineapple juice with me in case I need it.

When I get home another 5IU and 100gr rice cream and whey

Let's see how it goes, gonna try 1 week like this and increase to 10IU

Ordered glucose tablet will arrive tomorrow

 

[exilol]

Just injected 5IU insulin had 60gr rice cream 1 hour before
Went into the gym and started sipping pineapple juice 50gr carb total and had 15, minutes before creatine glutammine arginine citrulline.

Half way through, pump are amazing and I feel fucking great.
Got more pineapple juice with me in case I need it.

When I get home another 5IU and 100gr rice cream and whey

Let's see how it goes, gonna try 1 week like this and increase to 10IU

Ordered glucose tablet will arrive tomorrow

Good approach - now as a bonus - Especially when having higher doses - Combining carb sources in your intra increases uptake - Also Salt and caffeine makes absorption quicker also ; I typically do : 40 % Carbs from Apple juice ( the cheap sugar added one) and 60 % carbs from Cyclic Dextrin - Different molecular weights helps with absorption rates and availability. Put in some electrolytes and you are golden.. One thing to note is that Rapid typically has Two " peaks " or it " hits you twice " so to speak . Once within 15 mins , then Typically again ( not as strong) around 2 hours 20 mins later - Be aware of this .. I am very sensitive to that effect myself So I find that I typically need less slin in my post workout meal as I still have the pre workout residual " in the background" So to speak - So again Even after your post workout meal - make sure there is a small amount of carbs in the meal after ( doesnt take much at all - and probably not with just 5 iu ) But good info to have.. I am very experienced with Insulin - so this is is all coming from my experience - not advise .

 

[Sampei]

Good approach - now as a bonus - Especially when having higher doses - Combining carb sources in your intra increases uptake - Also Salt and caffeine makes absorption quicker also ; I typically do : 40 % Carbs from Apple juice ( the cheap sugar added one) and 60 % carbs from Cyclic Dextrin - Different molecular weights helps with absorption rates and availability. Put in some electrolytes and you are golden.. One thing to note is that Rapid typically has Two " peaks " or it " hits you twice " so to speak . Once within 15 mins , then Typically again ( not as strong) around 2 hours 20 mins later - Be aware of this .. I am very sensitive to that effect myself So I find that I typically need less slin in my post workout meal as I still have the pre workout residual " in the background" So to speak - So again Even after your post workout meal - make sure there is a small amount of carbs in the meal after ( doesnt take much at all - and probably not with just 5 iu ) But good info to have.. I am very experienced with Insulin - so this is is all coming from my experience - not advise .

thank you very much for the suggestions, I really appreciate it.

So instead of cyclic dextrin can I do a mix of dextrose and maltodextrin or pineapple juice and maltodextrin?

I'm asking because it's cheaper maltodextrin like a lot cheaper then cyclic dextrin.

I'm still gonna eat my rice cream 1hour 30 minutes before workout because I like to have some solid food as well in and will use the intra-workout sugar as much as I need it. Should I add salt to the mix as well? (not sure if salt will make the whole beverage disgusting tho xD)

Btw first time trying insulin and I already love this shit, the workout was awesome, fucking painful too for the pumps and I have used only 5IU can't imagine 10 what it will be.

 

[exilol]

I personally prefer Cyclic dextrin as anything over 25 g of dextrose and especially maltodextrin gives me an uncomfortable sense of stomach bloat - not something you'd want intra workout- whereas I can do even 80 g of Cyclic dextrin without a hint of bloat ... that said I have many of my clients who tolerate dextrose just as good - so for them I suggest going with dextrose as it is 1/5th the price - maltodextrin I would personally avoid ... try dextrose and see how you tolerate it - possibly you will be fine due to the minimal amount...

Do add EAA'S in your intra also - 15 g will be plenty - remember slin shuttles ALL nutrients ... finally for salt - 1 gram of sea salt in your intra workout with the dextrose , eaa , fruit juice of choice will not only not taste bad but enhance the sweet flavor coming from eaas and juice ..

Finally I also add a serving of unflavoured electrolyte power also to it ... this combo will turn up the pump a notch and ensure proper nutrient uptake , hydration and ultimately performance..

 

[Sampei]

Why would you avoid the maltodextrine? Personal choice?

Gonna buy all those nice supplements and make as you suggested a killer intraworkout. Do I really need the dextrose tho.. if I use the juice? Isn't it better to just use a more complex carb source like the cyclic?
I liked the idea of the maltodextrine just because it isn't pure glucose like dextrose but it's a complex carb that need to be broken down the absorption rate is the same as dextrose tho, 60gr/hr the body can't do more then that for what I have read, dunno in my mind isn't it better then just pure glucose? My ignorance could sway me towards this wrong idea, plus as I said I don't like when something is too sweet so that's why dextrose putted me off a bit.

Ok salt and electrolyte! Gonna order all tomorrow hopefully will be here in few days.

Let's go!!!

I personally prefer Cyclic dextrin as anything over 25 g of dextrose and especially maltodextrin gives me an uncomfortable sense of stomach bloat - not something you'd want intra workout- whereas I can do even 80 g of Cyclic dextrin without a hint of bloat ... that said I have many of my clients who tolerate dextrose just as good - so for them I suggest going with dextrose as it is 1/5th the price - maltodextrin I would personally avoid ... try dextrose and see how you tolerate it - possibly you will be fine due to the minimal amount...

Do add EAA'S in your intra also - 15 g will be plenty - remember slin shuttles ALL nutrients ... finally for salt - 1 gram of sea salt in your intra workout with the dextrose , eaa , fruit juice of choice will not only not taste bad but enhance the sweet flavor coming from eaas and juice ..

Finally I also add a serving of unflavoured electrolyte power also to it ... this combo will turn up the pump a notch and ensure proper nutrient uptake , hydration and ultimately performance..

 

[exilol]

That's exactly the point... you want to take the simplest form of carb possible so it instantly hits your bloodstream and pet the insulin do its work..
Same reason why you would take eaas over a piece of chicken for instance...the carbs from the fruit juice need more "digestion" so they are released more steadily whilst the dextrose /Cyclic dextrin would provide the instant hit as you sip it - that's why I like combining the two...

I gave you what I feel is the best info in terms of intra nutrition when using rapid ... same info I have used myself for years and with close to a hundred clients at least...

Is it mandatory to do it like that? Probably not , most likely even just table sugar would get the job done but there is a reason top coaches like milos for instance recommend this exact same supplementation ( albeit much more aggressive lol) intra workout...

I believe I told you more than enough man , do with it what you will and stay safe .. with slin often less is better to an extent

 

[Sampei]

That's exactly the point... you want to take the simplest form of carb possible so it instantly hits your bloodstream and pet the insulin do its work..
Same reason why you would take eaas over a piece of chicken for instance...the carbs from the fruit juice need more "digestion" so they are released more steadily whilst the dextrose /Cyclic dextrin would provide the instant hit as you sip it - that's why I like combining the two...

I gave you what I feel is the best info in terms of intra nutrition when using rapid ... same info I have used myself for years and with close to a hundred clients at least...

Is it mandatory to do it like that? Probably not , most likely even just table sugar would get the job done but there is a reason top coaches like milos for instance recommend this exact same supplementation ( albeit much more aggressive lol) intra workout...

I believe I told you more than enough man , do with it what you will and stay safe .. with slin often less is better to an extent

Thank you for everything I'll do exactly as you says.

What the proportion between juice/dextrose/cyclin? 30/30/30?

 

[exilol]

There Is no rule ... for my 100 Carbs I am currently taking intra I do : 400 Ml coconut water (20 C ) For the potassium , 200 ml Apple juice (20 C) , 60 G Cyclic dextrin. There is no need to combine dextrose and cyclic dextrin - pick one , go with it , see how it digests for you... Cyclic dextrin as explained earlier Will be Super easy to absorb - Goes straight to your bloodstream...

Thank you for everything I'll do exactly as you says.

What the proportion between juice/dextrose/cyclin? 30/30/30?

 

[Sampei]

There Is no rule ... for my 100 Carbs I am currently taking intra I do : 400 Ml coconut water (20 C ) For the potassium , 200 ml Apple juice (20 C) , 60 G Cyclic dextrin. There is no need to combine dextrose and cyclic dextrin - pick one , go with it , see how it digests for you... Cyclic dextrin as explained earlier Will be Super easy to absorb - Goes straight to your bloodstream...

so it's either dextrose or cyclin, I'll grab both and see if I tolerate dextrose, If I don't I'll go with the cyclin (it is a lot more expensive).
thank you!

 

[Fattyone]

so it's either dextrose or cyclin, I'll grab both and see if I tolerate dextrose, If I don't I'll go with the cyclin (it is a lot more expensive).
thank you!

Karbolyn is another option