HGH + Insulin timing?

[KatharinaFritsch]

Don't use Malto. Use High-molecular corn starch.

Personally, I find the protocol where you eat your pre-workout meal, then inject insulin and then go into training very bad.

No matter how much carbs you eat, you will never know exactly whether you have eaten enough/too much/too little. If you eat too much, the body will release insulin on its own, which is something we want to avoid at all costs.

My protocol works like this:
- 10IU insulin 2h before training
- 130g carbs (usually you'll start with 100g. But that was way to little for me) 1.75h before training (the amount of carbs must be adjusted after the first attempt)
- Measure blood sugar 1 hour before training
Case 1: blood sugar is >100 --> wait 20 minutes and measure again
Case 2: Blood sugar is 90-100 --> wait 10 minutes and measure again
Case 3: Blood sugar is <90 --> top up with sugar depending on the value + take GH

Example case 3: my measured blood sugar is 80, then I add 20g of sugar. If my BS is 79, I will add 30g of sugar. Then I wait another 20 minutes and repeat from above.

If I add sugar the second time I measure, I measure again 20 minutes later (just before I go into training) to be on the safe side.

The protocol has the advantage that you are training with a blood sugar of around 100, which is optimal.

 

[Fattyone]

Don't use Malto. Use High-molecular corn starch.

Personally, I find the protocol where you eat your pre-workout meal, then inject insulin and then go into training very bad.

No matter how much carbs you eat, you will never know exactly whether you have eaten enough/too much/too little. If you eat too much, the body will release insulin on its own, which is something we want to avoid at all costs.

My protocol works like this:
- 10IU insulin 2h before training
- 130g carbs (usually you'll start with 100g. But that was way to little for me) 1.75h before training (the amount of carbs must be adjusted after the first attempt)
- Measure blood sugar 1 hour before training
Case 1: blood sugar is >100 --> wait 20 minutes and measure again
Case 2: Blood sugar is 90-100 --> wait 10 minutes and measure again
Case 3: Blood sugar is <90 --> top up with sugar depending on the value + take GH

Example case 3: my measured blood sugar is 80, then I add 20g of sugar. If my BS is 79, I will add 30g of sugar. Then I wait another 20 minutes and repeat from above.

If I add sugar the second time I measure, I measure again 20 minutes later (just before I go into training) to be on the safe side.

The protocol has the advantage that you are training with a blood sugar of around 100, which is optimal.

This makes no sense to me. The whole point of using insulin in your workout window is to shuttle all those yummy muscle building ingredients into your muscle. They way you’re doing it.. there’s nothing to shuttle.

 

[Sampei]

This makes no sense to me. The whole point of using insulin in your workout window is to shuttle all those yummy muscle building ingredients into your muscle. They way you’re doing it.. there’s nothing to shuttle.

I was reading it and arrived at the end and thought: what the fuck did I just read lol

 

[AlexDavis43]

This makes no sense to me. The whole point of using insulin in your workout window is to shuttle all those yummy muscle building ingredients into your muscle. They way you’re doing it.. there’s nothing to shuttle.

Maybe carbs alone + insulin is good for a pump but I always include pre-workout protein - usually a carb/protein meal - for the reasons you stated.

 

[WeakPiggy]

I have searched around and I can't find a clear answer, if you run insulin fast acting humalog novorapid etc those one, pre and post WO, do you time your HGH with insulin or it doesn't matter and you can take it before bed for example?

the timing of the insulin is very important but what about the HGH timing? for example let's say 10IU HGH. all before bed? 5IU prewo and 5IU postwo?
Is it just preference or there is a big difference when you take your HGH while injecting insulin?

im just asking, not juding, but why run insulin? i read the whole posting. if your a1c isnt going up at the dose and carbs, what is the benefit? ive ran lantus and fasting acting before, pharma pens, and i never saw a benefit, which is why im asking hopefully you can shed light where i went wrong. I understand it if youre coming from trying to prevent beta burn out! thanks! also thanks for asking the question and everyone else sharing answers

 

[Sampei]

im just asking, not juding, but why run insulin? i read the whole posting. if your a1c isnt going up at the dose and carbs, what is the benefit? ive ran lantus and fasting acting before, pharma pens, and i never saw a benefit, which is why im asking hopefully you can shed light where i went wrong. I understand it if youre coming from trying to prevent beta burn out! thanks! also thanks for asking the question and everyone else sharing answers

because one try to shuffle most of the carbs and protein towards the muscles when you use insulin.
That and if you are eating a shit load of carbs (not me) you need help in shuffling dose as your pancrease can't keep up with the insulin production needed.

There are different reasons for using insulin. I'm no expert tho, I just started reading and trying to understand how it works and how it's used, better wait for someone a lot more expert on the matter

 

[WeakPiggy]

because one try to shuffle most of the carbs and protein towards the muscles when you use insulin.
That and if you are eating a shit load of carbs (not me) you need help in shuffling dose as your pancrease can't keep up with the insulin production needed.

There are different reasons for using insulin. I'm no expert tho, I just started reading and trying to understand how it works and how it's used, better wait for someone a lot more expert on the matter

thanks for the reply. i read the whole posting. im thinking my issue might been an intra workout, electrolyte problem.

will add slin back in in dec.

 

[Sampei]

thanks for the reply. i read the whole posting. im thinking my issue might been an intra workout, electrolyte problem.

will add slin back in in dec.

the benefit will be seen if you eat enough to shuffle the nutrients, but don't increase carbs to cover insulin, should be the other way around.
If you are looking for sick pumps, HGH + Insulin pre workout + intraworkout with electrolyte (sodium++) EEA and fast carbs like dextrose or cycline. You will have crazy painful pumps

 

[WeakPiggy]

the benefit will be seen if you eat enough to shuffle the nutrients, but don't increase carbs to cover insulin, should be the other way around.
If you are looking for sick pumps, HGH + Insulin pre workout + intraworkout with electrolyte (sodium++) EEA and fast carbs like dextrose or cycline. You will have crazy painful pumps

thanks! i understand the logic on dosing slin! thanks for covering that with me though! good luck. be safe

 

[AlexDavis43]

"Use insulin to cover your carbs, don't add carbs to cover your insulin"

Some people have very strong opinions about this. That's fine, whatever.

I'm on a low carb diet rn and still like the pump and nutrient partitioning effects of preworkout insulin, so I add some carbs to my preworkout mixed meal.

 

[KatharinaFritsch]

This makes no sense to me. The whole point of using insulin in your workout window is to shuttle all those yummy muscle building ingredients into your muscle. They way you’re doing it.. there’s nothing to shuttle.

I've got 150g+ carbs in my system including insulin. That means "nothing to shuttle" to you?

 

[Fattyone]

I've got 150g+ carbs in my system including insulin. That means "nothing to shuttle" to you?

No, you don’t.

 

[KatharinaFritsch]

No, you don’t.

Then read my text again, you obviously didn't do that properly.

I start with 10IU insulin. After 10 minutes I eat 130g of carbohydrates in the form of rice.

After another 40 minutes, I measure my blood sugar. If it is over 100, I wait. If it is below 100, I add carbohydrates in the form of sugar. This process is repeated until my blood sugar is hovering around 100.

This gives me a total of 150g to 200g of carbohydrates.

I aim to have a stable blood sugar of 100 during training.

Working with intra carbs during training is simply inaccurate. It only works if you measure your blood sugar and adjust the amount of carb accordingly.

Simply saying “I take insulin and without having measured my blood sugar I take 30g of sugar during training” is very negligent.

 

[Intrepid]

Having a hard time finding info on the pharmacokinetics related to intramuscular nolvalin r use, probably because a lot of people don't do it, or just use a faster acting version like log.

I've been doing nolvalin r IM post workout with the goal of increasing the peak and hopefully shortening the elimination life (compared to doing it subq). For instance, nolvalin r sub q peaks in 2-2.5 hours usually with an elimination life of 8 hours or so

If I were doing it IM though, it should peak much sooner and harder, which should workout better with shuttling my post workout meal nutrients into the muscle, and I won't have to worry about keeping fats to trace amounts for 8 hours (I'm arbitrarily estimating 6 hours just to be safe on my fat intake)

And yes I know log is better for this purpose. But I can get nolvalin r OTC, from a Walmart 10 minutes away, for $25 for an entire vial so it's just a convenience factor for now.

Does anyone have any good data or charts on IM nolvalin r?

 

[AlexDavis43]

Does anyone have any good data or charts on IM nolvalin r?

No but that's pretty similar to what I do. Seems to work well.

 

[Sampei]

Having a hard time finding info on the pharmacokinetics related to intramuscular nolvalin r use, probably because a lot of people don't do it, or just use a faster acting version like log.

I've been doing nolvalin r IM post workout with the goal of increasing the peak and hopefully shortening the elimination life (compared to doing it subq). For instance, nolvalin r sub q peaks in 2-2.5 hours usually with an elimination life of 8 hours or so

If I were doing it IM though, it should peak much sooner and harder, which should workout better with shuttling my post workout meal nutrients into the muscle, and I won't have to worry about keeping fats to trace amounts for 8 hours (I'm arbitrarily estimating 6 hours just to be safe on my fat intake)

And yes I know log is better for this purpose. But I can get nolvalin r OTC, from a Walmart 10 minutes away, for $25 for an entire vial so it's just a convenience factor for now.

Does anyone have any good data or charts on IM nolvalin r?

Just use a BG monitor and check when it peaks

 

[Intrepid]

No but that's pretty similar to what I do. Seems to work well.

Yeah I'm enjoying the results so far as well. Having to stick to trace fats for 8 hours isn't much fun though, which is why I'm doing it IM similar to yourself.

Guess ill just keep the estimated IM elimination life at 6 hours for now until I get some better data. Last thing I want is to start consuming fats too early and have my body store it.

There was also an interesting post by Luki on PM that talked about doing BOLO GH dosage pre workout in the offseason or during a bulk for better glucose control and it made a lot of sense to me.

Basically the way i interpreted it: Having a large gh dose pre workout would help mitigate any fat gain with slin in the mix, would stimulate lipolysis during the workout that could even offset lipogenesis from the insulin, and any increase in blood glucose from the gh would be brought down by the insulin, plus the calorie expenditure from the workout

(Compared to doing a BOLO night time dose, then having to use GDAs to counter blood glucose, and even with GDAs, it's still very possible to wake up with higher than normal fasted blood glucose if you're pushing the gh dosage beyond 10ius or so)

So for the moment I'm switching my gh dosage to a BOLO shot pre workout. Never really tried this method before so i am curious

 

[Sampei]

Yeah I'm enjoying the results so far as well. Having to stick to trace fats for 8 hours isn't much fun though, which is why I'm doing it IM similar to yourself.

Guess ill just keep the estimated IM elimination life at 6 hours for now until I get some better data. Last thing I want is to start consuming fats too early and have my body store it.

There was also an interesting post by Luki on PM that talked about doing BOLO GH dosage pre workout in the offseason or during a bulk for better glucose control and it made a lot of sense to me.

Basically the way i interpreted it: Having a large gh dose pre workout would help mitigate any fat gain with slin in the mix, would stimulate lipolysis during the workout that could even offset lipogenesis from the insulin, and any increase in blood glucose from the gh would be brought down by the insulin, plus the calorie expenditure from the workout

(Compared to doing a BOLO night time dose, then having to use GDAs to counter blood glucose, and even with GDAs, it's still very possible to wake up with higher than normal fasted blood glucose if you're pushing the gh dosage beyond 10ius or so)

So for the moment I'm switching my gh dosage to a BOLO shot pre workout. Never really tried this method before so i am curious

If you monitor your BG report back if it does change anything, very interested in it as well.

I'm doing bolus before workout on days ON and before bed on days OFF

 

[Fattyone]

I can get nolvalin r OTC, from a Walmart 10 minutes away

You can get log delivered to your mailbox. Assuming that’s less than a 10 minute drive for you. It also solves your problem of trying to do fancy things to time slin

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Yeah I'm enjoying the results so far as well. Having to stick to trace fats for 8 hours isn't much fun though, which is why I'm doing it IM similar to yourself.

Guess ill just keep the estimated IM elimination life at 6 hours for now until I get some better data. Last thing I want is to start consuming fats too early and have my body store it.

There was also an interesting post by Luki on PM that talked about doing BOLO GH dosage pre workout in the offseason or during a bulk for better glucose control and it made a lot of sense to me.

Basically the way i interpreted it: Having a large gh dose pre workout would help mitigate any fat gain with slin in the mix, would stimulate lipolysis during the workout that could even offset lipogenesis from the insulin, and any increase in blood glucose from the gh would be brought down by the insulin, plus the calorie expenditure from the workout

(Compared to doing a BOLO night time dose, then having to use GDAs to counter blood glucose, and even with GDAs, it's still very possible to wake up with higher than normal fasted blood glucose if you're pushing the gh dosage beyond 10ius or so)

So for the moment I'm switching my gh dosage to a BOLO shot pre workout. Never really tried this method before so i am curious

How many hours before the first working set do you take the GH? I presume you would want the GH peak to happen towards the end of the workout?

Also, consider the following:

"[Even] very-low-dose GH exposure evokes acute insulin resistance that subsides after 5 h. This time-dependent reversibility should be considered when assessing the impact of GH on glucose homeostasis."

Growth Hormone (GH)-Induced Insulin Resistance Is Rapidly Reversible: An Experimental Study in GH-Deficient Adults

AbstractContext:. It is clinically relevant and of physiological interest to investigate whether GH-induced insulin resistance depends on the timing of GH

academic.oup.com

So wouldn't pre/intra workout insulin be much less effective if at the same time GH is elevated?