HGH with Tren Low IGF1

[Jackedjack]

Hey guys. I have experienced many times huge drop in IGF1 while being on HGH when cycle includes Trenbolone. I lived most of my anabolic life thinking that Tren increase IGF1, but seems to be the opposite. Ive always blamed my dumb liver, not capable to produce igf1, but now searching around different forums i came to conclusion that many guys have seen IGF reduction due to tren.

Ive had IGF1 120 reading while being on 8iu HGH with 100mg/day tren, thats fckn low.

Any input from experience, is it true?

Thanks.

 

[Capodecapi]

Maybe you dont respond well its possible

 

[Chips7]

Tren lower my IGF-1 asfouck too

 

[jJjburton]

Hey guys. I have experienced many times huge drop in IGF1 while being on HGH when cycle includes Trenbolone. I lived most of my anabolic life thinking that Tren increase IGF1, but seems to be the opposite. Ive always blamed my dumb liver, not capable to produce igf1, but now searching around different forums i came to conclusion that many guys have seen IGF reduction due to tren.

Ive had IGF1 120 reading while being on 8iu HGH with 100mg/day tren, thats fckn low.

Any input from experience, is it true?

Thanks.

Tren lowers igf

 

[Chips7]

But on Wikipedia they said Tren increase IGF-1 through the cell, so there is something i dont understand .

Tren increase igf-1 through the cell but decrease Igf-1 through the body ?

 

[TRENdy07]

Tren lowers my Igf significantly

 

[Gigantic]

Tren does that.

Clomid also savagely lowers your IGF-1. You’ll get better gains even just by adding replacement amounts, although the more the merrier up to a point.

 

[Boss Brady 12]

Tren def lowers my igf forsure I was testing my igf on lots of generics running 3-6iu and couldnt break 300s. My lowest igf numbers were during tren cycles but pharm grade genos and seros are only kinds to bring me over 300s off 3-4ius.

 

[Chips7]

Tren def lowers my igf forsure I was testing my igf on lots of generics running 3-6iu and couldnt break 300s. My lowest igf numbers were during tren cycles but pharm grade genos and seros are only kinds to bring me over 300s off 3-4ius.

Pharma grade geno and sero bring you over 300s at 3-4ui when on tren ?

 

[Boss Brady 12]

No sorry no tren on the pharm grade but on generics I couldnt break 300s only pharm grade put my igf me over 300.I ran igf on TPs hgh a long time ago and when i was on tren my IGf barely moved running 5-6ius. I dropped the tren and it went up no slightly.

 

[thegeorges123]

Hey guys. I have experienced many times huge drop in IGF1 while being on HGH when cycle includes Trenbolone. I lived most of my anabolic life thinking that Tren increase IGF1, but seems to be the opposite. Ive always blamed my dumb liver, not capable to produce igf1, but now searching around different forums i came to conclusion that many guys have seen IGF reduction due to tren.

Ive had IGF1 120 reading while being on 8iu HGH with 100mg/day tren, thats fckn low.

Any input from experience, is it true?

Thanks.

Its strange, for me as well my igf1 levels are low on tren and hgh. Sometimes i throw some igf1lr3, which some claims lowers as well igf1 levels. Yeh confusing

 

[Para_33]

Just experienced this myself and searched out these posts.

I was on nothing but 12.5mg mk677 most of this off-season February-July 2023. Last serum igf1 was 275 in March.

Before last blood test (9/11/23) I began tren e at 560mg per week 4 weeks before blood draw. Then 12 days before the blood draw I started taking 2.64iu hgh 3-4x per day, so 10.56iu daily, and was thinking I’d get this crazy high igf1… neg it was only 272 ng/ml.


March,02,2023: 1050 deca,87.5 Test, 5.6 mg Estradiol Valerate, 12.5mg mk677, 24iu novolin N split 3x daily, no Tren- IGF1 275ng/ml

September, 11, 2023: 1570 EQ, 560 Tren E, 5.6mg Estradiol Valerate, 24iu Novolin N split 3x daily, 10.56iu HGH- IGF1 272ng/ml.


I’ve heard it claimed that exogenous estradiol loweres igf1, but anecdotally for me, last year my higher igf1 reading ever was on my Deca only cycle with exogenous estradiol valerate, no mk667 or hgh and my igf1 was 340ng/ml. So outside above the reference range with no gh or gh peptides.

 

[Type-IIx]

From Factors that Diminish GH Response (↓Δ IGF-I); The Purpose of the Serum IGF-I Test: A Revision (2.0) [Author: Type-IIx]:

GH response (RhGH Dose/Response vis-à-vis Δ IGF-I): the most important data point in your trial of 1
You may view your results if measured under the conditions given, as a measure of your GH response to the product. That is, even if you picked up your 8 IU daily dose of Norditropin from the local pharmacy yourself (so you know it's real) and administered it properly (perhaps you have HIV): if your serum IGF-I levels are insignificantly altered, you are unlikely to see significant benefit from the product (or, indeed, any rhGH preparation). †.

†: Trenbolone. This AAS decreases endogenous GH pulse amplitude & duration, thereby ↓ Δ IGF-I & ↓ IGF-I. It also is potently insulin sensitizing, decreasing blood insulin, IGF-I, & glucose in humans. Trenbolone does more with less. That is, despite the decrement to liver-secreted systemic/circulating IGF-I (↓ IGF-I [liver]), Trenbolone dramatically increases the intramuscular satellite cell responsiveness to autocrine/paracrine IGF-I (IGF-IEa; IGF-IEc, the mechanosensitive isoform [muscle]). These are both increased substantially by rhGH administration & resistance training. Then, Testosterone + Trenbolone + RhGH + Resistance Training are synergistic (greater than additive; 1 + 1 > 2) in their increases to muscle & total body size.

From A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based:

Tren & lower serum IGF-I increases muscle size greater than (>) Test & higher serum IGF-I†.

Test & higher serum IGF-I increases total body size > Tren & lower serum IGF-I.

On an equimolar basis (equivalent per-mg), of course.

Serum IGF-I is a measure of the liver-secreted circulating IGF-I in the blood compartment. This mitogen increases cell division leading to, e.g., growth of the bones, connective tissues, basically all tissues. It makes us larger humans.

Tren increases the activity of autocrine/paracrine IGF-I isoforms (IGF-IEa; IGF-IEc, also known as MGF) in the muscle compartment. This means that the satellite cell response (reflecting the process of hypertrophy) to these isoforms is greatly increased, "doing more with less."

In the muscular compartment, autocrine/paracrine IGF-IEa is increased by rhGH, and IGF-IEc by lifting weights.

†: Note that muscle size here refers to the myofibril diameter, the contractile units, rather than, e.g., the circumference or volume of the upper arms. The former refers specifically to myofibrilar hypertrophy of muscle fibers, that it can be argued, is overly myopic, because we also care about cell swelling and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, glycogen, etc.

From ProM: Simplified explanation of rhGH & Tren synergy:

Yes, so:

tren lowers systemic/liver IGF-I (because it reduces natural GH release and does the next thing):
but tren dramatically INCREASES the actual muscle's response to that systemic IGF-I (it does this by making more efficient use of that IGF-I as a precursor for special subtypes of IGF-I that exist inside the muscle)
so, though tren lowers natural (endogenous) GH levels, if we force that GH into the body, it'll still increase that systemic IGF-I floating around and allow for more opportunities when that IGF-I that's floating around comes into contact with muscles to increase the muscle's growth.

Even if bloodwork for serum IGF-I is "low," on tren, be sure that tren is making better use of the IGF-I inside the muscles.

 

[Type-IIx]

Just experienced this myself and searched out these posts.

I was on nothing but 12.5mg mk677 most of this off-season February-July 2023. Last serum igf1 was 275 in March.

Before last blood test (9/11/23) I began tren e at 560mg per week 4 weeks before blood draw. Then 12 days before the blood draw I started taking 2.64iu hgh 3-4x per day, so 10.56iu daily, and was thinking I’d get this crazy high igf1… neg it was only 272 ng/ml.


March,02,2023: 1050 deca,87.5 Test, 5.6 mg Estradiol Valerate, 12.5mg mk677, 24iu novolin N split 3x daily, no Tren- IGF1 275ng/ml

September, 11, 2023: 1570 EQ, 560 Tren E, 5.6mg Estradiol Valerate, 24iu Novolin N split 3x daily, 10.56iu HGH- IGF1 272ng/ml.


I’ve heard it claimed that exogenous estradiol loweres igf1, but anecdotally for me, last year my higher igf1 reading ever was on my Deca only cycle with exogenous estradiol valerate, no mk667 or hgh and my igf1 was 340ng/ml. So outside above the reference range with no gh or gh peptides.

This doesn't demonstrate that Tren does not lower IGF-I, it demonstrates that excessive estrogens do, and that insulin increases it.

 

[Para_33]

This doesn't demonstrate that Tren does not lower IGF-I, it demonstrates that excessive estrogens do, and that insulin increases it.

How is that demonstrated when my highest igf1 reading I’ve ever gotten by a significant amount 344ng/ml was simultaneous with the highest lc/ms e2 reading I’ve ever gotten ?


For the record, I’m not claiming that my highest igf1 was caused or had anything to do with it being when my high sensitivity e2 was 100.4. Because that just also happened to be one of the only recent test where I wasn’t on tren. And I think the anecdata of guys showing their igf1 drop while taking tren is more compelling.

So I think it’s a coincidence that my highest igf1 was also along side my highest e2 reading. It’s more likely due to the fact I wasn’t on tren.

 

[Type-IIx]

How is that demonstrated when my highest igf1 reading I’ve ever gotten by a significant amount 344ng/ml was simultaneous with the highest lc/ms e2 reading I’ve ever gotten ?


For the record, I’m not claiming that my highest igf1 was caused or had anything to do with it being when my high sensitivity e2 was 100.4. Because that just also happened to be one of the only recent test where I wasn’t on tren. And I think the anecdata of guys showing their igf1 drop while taking tren is more compelling.

So I think it’s a coincidence that my highest igf1 was also along side my highest e2 reading. It’s more likely due to the fact I wasn’t on tren.

I highlighted my response in bold; you could have just written this final sentence and moved on.

Besides the fact that endocrine (blood) E2 activity is dissociated from intracrine (tissue) E2 activity, as explained in Primobolan / Equipoise Crashed my E2 – Help! - MESO-Rx

A bloodwork sample like yours is particularly unreliable since you can't remember what you were taking (whether MK677 that affects IGF-I or any of the other agents that affect estrogen activity that you take, e.g., DHEA) and because entire textbooks exist on the topic supporting what I have said here and elsewhere on the topic, the materials of which are supported by more than misinterpreted unreliable bloodwork.