High E2 leads to gallstone formation..?

[29trt]

Having recently discovered I have a 4mm gallstone , I went around and found studies linking estrogen in women to higher likelihood of stone formation.
Here is one such study

Effect of Estrogen Therapy on Gallbladder Disease

Gallstone formation is thought to rely on 3 factors: supersaturation of biliary cholesterol due to hepatic hypersecretion, nucleation of cholesterol monohydrate crystals, and gallbladder hypomotility.7,8 The liver has estrogen receptors, and the presence of endogenous estrogens causes cholesterol saturation in the bile, inhibition of chenodeoxycholic acid secretion, and increased cholic acid content.9 Progestins inhibit gallbladder contraction, encourage bile stasis, and have been shown to decrease the gallbladder’s response to cholecystokinin.9 One study found that exogenous estrogens, given either transdermally or orally, affected physiologic markers in a pattern that favored gallstone formation.10

How would this translate to men, are the androgens negating estrogens effect on the liver?
There are allot of proponents of high E2 with high Test around here ,"if you have no sides let e2 rise unchecked " and I am one of the "lucky" ones that have few sides from E2 and leave it unchecked on cruise (200mg test) , on blast I run 0.25mg arimidex EOD and that helps eliminate any acne forming.
So are we promoting the formation of gallstones by keeping E2 high?

 

[gr1ndhard]

Thanks for sharing this is very interesting.

I would look for the shbg too in First place when e2 is not through yet the roof there can be a Problem with shbg bringing too much "systemic active" e2 in the Organs. This also cab be prevented by prog.

But btw Gallstones can also Form from too much vitamin d, as it will need magnesium as a cofactor its gonna get it Out of the Bones, leaving ca2+ as substrate for them stones.

 

[29trt]

Thanks for sharing this is very interesting.

I would look for the shbg too in First place when e2 is not through yet the roof there can be a Problem with shbg bringing too much "systemic active" e2 in the Organs. This also cab be prevented by prog.

But btw Gallstones can also Form from too much vitamin d, as it will need magnesium as a cofactor its gonna get it Out of the Bones, leaving ca2+ as substrate for them stones.

Hmm, you're saying some interesting stuff , do you mind expanding on the vitamin d topic as it has become quite popular for leople to suplement with d3.
how much D3 is too much in this case? and what if you are suplementing with magnesium will there still be an imbalance?

 

[gr1ndhard]

Hmm, you're saying some interesting stuff , do you mind expanding on the vitamin d topic as it has become quite popular for leople to suplement with d3.
how much D3 is too much in this case? and what if you are suplementing with magnesium will there still be an imbalance?

A lot of roofworkers used to have them stones back in the days cuz a lot of them at least here where i live worked without Shirts. So they became Exposed to extremly high amounts of vitamin d through skin.
With magnesium as a cofaktor you should be fine as long as you dont overdo it in my opinion. I stay at 8000iu /d. In dont know if there is something like an upper Limit by nature.

I think this will be predeterminied by your Personal and genetical encymatic activity. Unfortunatly i cant drop you fixed Numbers on this.

 

[29trt]

A lot of roofworkers used to have them stones back in the days cuz a lot of them at least here where i live worked without Shirts. So they became Exposed to extremly high amounts of vitamin d through skin.
With magnesium as a cofaktor you should be fine as long as you dont overdo it in my opinion. I stay at 8000iu /d. In dont know if there is something like an upper Limit by nature.

I think this will be predeterminied by your Personal and genetical encymatic activity. Unfortunatly i cant drop you fixed Numbers on this.

ok yeah wasn't looking for exact numbers was wondering more about a range... i've heard between 4000 to 10k UI is safe but that was in the context of general health.
definetly genetic factors play a role! there are some identified genes that prrdispose one to having stone formation and I've got them

 

[gr1ndhard]

ok yeah wasn't looking for exact numbers was wondering more about a range... i've heard between 4000 to 10k UI is safe but that was in the context of general health.
definetly genetic factors play a role! there are some identified genes that prrdispose one to having stone formation and I've got them

Ah ok thats something i didnt know!
Then you probably do better if you try to avoid excess ca+ release.
I dont know what else can lead to this tbh.
E2 can have a huge impact on bone density too, so maybe this can make up another path for Interaction like you already scientifically mentioned. There shbg comes into play again too im not quite sure if you can compare this to men 1:1

As women got their cylcle by nature. When they enter lutealphase p will raise while e2 ist dropping. During this Phase you could build up them stones, whilst shbg to high and binding of e2 too low . !If not enough p!
Cuz p raise affinity in e2 shbg binding affinity

What are you going to Do with your stones ? Do they cause any trouble for you ?

 

[29trt]

Ah ok thats something i didnt know!
Then you probably do better if you try to avoid excess ca+ release.
I dont know what else can lead to this tbh.
E2 can have a huge impact on bone density too, so maybe this can make up another path for Interaction like you already scientifically mentioned. There shbg comes into play again too im not quite sure if you can compare this to men 1:1

As women got their cylcle by nature. When they enter lutealphase p will raise while e2 ist dropping. During this Phase you could build up them stones, whilst shbg to high and binding of e2 too low . !If not enough p!
Cuz p raise affinity in e2 shbg binding affinity

What are you going to Do with your stones ? Do they cause any trouble for you ?

Only symptoms I got to indicate bile problems was when I was blasting test+deca my stool was yellow, after a month I got slight pain top left of the abdomen thats when I went for a ultrasound of the abdomen cavity, no abnormalities of organs except for the gallbladder, turns out I inherited a lazy 09abladder from my father that is very elongated and basically has trouble contracting and eliminating bile which the progesterone effects of the deca might have made worse +high e2...
only one small 4mm stone was visible...
Ive been off blast (just trt ) for 2 months now taking UDCA.
Oh and also mai bilirubin was elevated around 1.7 if I remenber right...
Going for bloodwork again tomorrow...

 

[gr1ndhard]

Unfortunatly my Text got deleted as i tried to find a study on this topic.

Maybe nandrolone Was involved in this, maybe the main reason is genetical like you mentioned and the combination did exelerate the Process.

Lets have a Look at your New levels. Optimizatio maybe wont get you rid of the little stone but prevent you from more to Form.

Look what i just found

Association between cholesterol gallstones and testosterone replacement therapy in a patient with primary hypogonadism | Revista de Gastroenterología de México

A 16-year-old boy had a past medical history of primary hypogonadism, due to bilateral

www.revistagastroenterologiamexico.org

 

[gr1ndhard]

Unfortunatly my Text got deleted as i tried to find a study on this topic.

Maybe nandrolone Was involved in this, maybe the main reason is genetical like you mentioned and the combination did exelerate the Process.

Lets have a Look at your New levels. Optimizatio maybe wont get you rid of the little stone but prevent you from more to Form.

Look what i just found

Association between cholesterol gallstones and testosterone replacement therapy in a patient with primary hypogonadism | Revista de Gastroenterología de México

A 16-year-old boy had a past medical history of primary hypogonadism, due to bilateral

www.revistagastroenterologiamexico.org

Dont get this wrong cuz they didnt even Look at e2!!!

 

[29trt]

Unfortunatly my Text got deleted as i tried to find a study on this topic.

Maybe nandrolone Was involved in this, maybe the main reason is genetical like you mentioned and the combination did exelerate the Process.

Lets have a Look at your New levels. Optimizatio maybe wont get you rid of the little stone but prevent you from more to Form.

Look what i just found

Association between cholesterol gallstones and testosterone replacement therapy in a patient with primary hypogonadism | Revista de Gastroenterología de México

A 16-year-old boy had a past medical history of primary hypogonadism, due to bilateral

www.revistagastroenterologiamexico.org

interesting case-study, quite a few things in common with my blood tests.
I haven't done an MRI so don't really know the composition of the stone though...
They talk about cholesterol uptake in the liver being increased due to test would reducing cholesterol intake from food mitigate this issue somewhat?

 

[gr1ndhard]

Thats a good question im not quite sure if its endo or exogene Cholesterol actually creating them stones.
If its endogene formed you probably do better by jumping on a lipid lowering agent like rosuvastatin its told to decrease risk of getting stones.
I take it too it lowers your ldl while raising hdl.
If you genetical predispositioned to this Problems.

Statin use and risk of gallstone disease: A meta-analysis - PubMed

There is evidence that current statin use lowers the risk of gallstone disease compared with non-use, especially for cholecystectomy due to gallstone disease. Low statin use (1-4 prescriptions) did not decrease the risk of gallstone disease, but moderate and high statin use significantly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[29trt]

I got my results back and Direct Bilirubin dropped from 0.56 a month ago to 0.29 which is just under the max .
Indirect bilirubin went from 1.11 to 0.4
So it seems to be ok now... and I forgot to mention that aside from UDCA I am also taking artichoke extract that is supposed to suport bile excretion and secretion...
Problem is I still get this dull pain in top left of the abdomen from time to time... it is very slight but it's clear something is wrong ...
Doctors every time there is any problem with the gallbladder they almost always resort to removing it...and I would prefer to avoid it if possible..