How does Trenbolone and Dianabol work synergistically?

[Joseph Plunkett]

Hi there, I apologise for peppering the forum with questions but this one has been on my mind for quite some.

Can someone with more experience than me please explain thoroughly how trenbolone and dianabol work synergistically?

Bill Roberts explains on the compound index that 50/50 of Tren/Dbol works better than running 100mg of each per day.

He says this isn’t true with stacking all steroids and that only anadrol and dianabol are the ones that work well alongside trenbolone.

Can someone please clarify why this is? The mechanism of action and to what magnitude in terms of difference does it make?

I’m very curious about it, it seems counterintuitive to run a wet drug like dianabol/anadrol alongside trenbolone a dry steroid and expect to meet somewhere in the middle.

I’m not sure, but I hope to find someone wise enough to answer.

Thanks guys.

 

[TheBulkerOnTheRoof]

Following this

 

[Nilatac]

I see this helpful only if you don't run enough test or other more estrogenic compound.
Estrogen is actually good for building muscle, joints, heart disease if it's not giving gyno.
I have run dbol with tren and almost all substance with tren but I call this BS. I didn't see any more wow effect than running dbol without tren. I didn't see any more benefits running certain substance combined than what are they doing on their own

 

[amindzeye]

I see this helpful only if you don't run enough test or other more estrogenic compound.
Estrogen is actually good for building muscle, joints, heart disease if it's not giving gyno.
I have run dbol with tren and almost all substance with tren but I call this BS. I didn't see any more wow effect than running dbol without tren. I didn't see any more benefits running certain substance combined than what are they doing on their own

So then you're of the opinion that it's total mg that is the main driver?

 

[Nilatac]

So then you're of the opinion that it's total mg that is the main driver?

More mg will work better. Taking half a dose of each drug to get the same mg amount total will not work better than taking more mg in total of each drug
Each substance has their own characteristics. Dbol do what dbol does and tren do what tren does
But this thing with synergy between dbol and tren or other substance 1+1=3 I call BS. I have run various substance in combination with other substance and I didn't see any more benefits to run a certain combo to do more than what are they doing on their own at a specific dose

In this case I believe that more estrogen from dbol will help to build muscle,strength but if you run enough test or other more prone to estrogen drug you will not see any difference. That's the only reason I see is more beneficial to run tren with dbol

Tbol with Anavar I heard to be a 1+1=3 thing but more in women. I don't know that as I didn't try it and I'm not a woman. What I write above is from me trying things

 

[Joseph Plunkett]

Each substance has their own characteristics. Dbol do what dbol does and tren do what tren does
But this thing with synergy between dbol and tren or other substance 1+1=3 I call BS. I have run various substance in combination with other substance and I didn't see any more benefits to run a certain combo to do more than what are they doing on their own at a specific dose

In this case I believe that more estrogen from dbol will help to build muscle,strength but if you run enough test or other more prone to estrogen drug you will not see any difference. That's the only reason I see is more beneficial to run tren with dbol

Tbol with Anavar I heard to be a 1+1=3 thing but more in women. I don't know that as I didn't try it and I'm not a woman. What I write above is from me trying things

No offense but not controlling estrogen while running a 19-Nors compound sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Estrogen converts to progesterone am I correct?

So by keeping estrogen low, theoretically it should also keep progesterone from getting out of whack.

You see this is what I didn’t understand when I read the article by Bill Roberts saying that they work well together.

It seems like a horrible idea, which is why I always had this question at the back of my mind.

Thanks for the answer, you gave a very detailed review of your own experience.

I’d rather hear from one who ran it before and lived to tell the tale… than from someone who bases his theories based on how the idea looks on paper, without ever actually putting it the test himself.

Top notch stuff bud, cheers.

 

[Nilatac]

No offense but not controlling estrogen while running a 19-Nors compound sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Estrogen converts to progesterone am I correct?

So by keeping estrogen low, theoretically it should also keep progesterone from getting out of whack.

You see this is what I didn’t understand when I read the article by Bill Roberts saying that they work well together.

It seems like a horrible idea, which is why I always had this question at the back of my mind.

Thanks for the answer, you gave a very detailed review of your own experience.

I’d rather hear from one who ran it before and lived to tell the tale… than from someone who bases his theories based on how the idea looks on paper, without ever actually putting it the test himself.

Top notch stuff bud, cheers.

You control estrogen like taking antiestrogen if you need one. Not taking something by default because that's how you read. I don't have any issues with estrogen so I never took a antiestrogen no matter what doses I was on

 

[amindzeye]

So by keeping estrogen low, theoretically it should also keep progesterone from getting out of whack.

My question is what's "in range"? Does it mean not too high on the e2 scale, or not so high that one is manifesting symptoms? I assume the latter.

 

[Nilatac]

My question is what's "in range"? Does it mean not too high on the e2 scale, or not so high that one is manifesting symptoms? I assume the latter.

High estrogen is better IF you don't get sides.
One of the reason why women respond better to steroids is that their body have high estrogen values. A lower % of women has heart attacks because of estrogen also

 

[TheBulkerOnTheRoof]

I feel a lot better taking mast or even a serm to combat my gyno than i do hammering my e2 down with ai to try and get the same result, im on mast now and havent taken ai for a month, gyno is taken care of by the mast and i feel better with the higher e2.

 

[Type-IIx]

If there were no synergy between compounds then Tren (3X more potent AR agonist than testosterone) at 200 mg would yield the same physique changes and strength increases as 600 mg of testosterone.

There'd be no benefit to combining the two.

Yet, there clearly is, and everyone does it.

Tren is non-aromatizable & non-5α/5β-reducible.

Tren is myotrophic by classical AR genomic action, increasing mIGF-I activity & modulating glucocorticoids by decreasing GR number.

Dbol is aromatizable & 5β-reducible.

Dbol is myotrophic by classical AR genomic action (and other mechanisms I've excluded from all examples), increasing systemic/liver-secreted IGF-I by in situ aromatization & modulating glucocorticoids by decreasing the rate of production of adrenocortical steroids by inhibiting either the production or release of ACTH.

The two have some synergy by acting at different sites of action (1 + 1 > 3).

That is, Tren and Dbol are myotropically synergistic by Dbol's increasing sytemic/liver-secreted IGF-I vs. Tren's decreasing systemic/liver-secreted IGF-I & increasing the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to intramuscular IGF-I. Tren modulates glucocorticoids by decreasing GR number (and likely slightly transactivating GR antagonistically analogously to methyltrienolone), while Dbol decreases ACTH to exert its antiglucocorticoid effects.

Tren 350 mg + Dbol 210 mg weekly yields a different physique (and strength increase, muscle size increase, etc.) than Testosterone 1 g + Methyltest 260 mg weekly.

 

[amindzeye]

If there were no synergy between compounds then Tren (3X more potent AR agonist than testosterone) at 200 mg would yield the same physique changes and strength increases as 600 mg of testosterone.

There'd be no benefit to combining the two.

Yet, there clearly is, and everyone does it.

Tren is non-aromatizable & non-5α/5β-reducible.

Tren is myotrophic by classical AR genomic action, increasing mIGF-I activity & modulating glucocorticoids by decreasing GR number.

Dbol is aromatizable & 5β-reducible.

Dbol is myotrophic by classical AR genomic action (and other mechanisms I've excluded from all examples), increasing systemic/liver-secreted IGF-I by in situ aromatization & modulating glucocorticoids by decreasing the rate of production of adrenocortical steroids by inhibiting either the production or release of ACTH.

The two have some synergy by acting at different sites of action (1 + 1 > 3).

That is, Tren and Dbol are myotropically synergistic by Dbol's increasing sytemic/liver-secreted IGF-I vs. Tren's decreasing systemic/liver-secreted IGF-I & increasing the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to intramuscular IGF-I. Tren modulates glucocorticoids by decreasing GR number (and likely slightly transactivating GR antagonistically analogously to methyltrienolone), while Dbol decreases ACTH to exert its antiglucocorticoid effects.

Tren 350 mg + Dbol 210 mg weekly yields a different physique (and strength increase, muscle size increase, etc.) than Testosterone 1 g + Methyltest 260 mg weekly.

Could you give the Tren, Anadrol Synergy relationship?

 

[Type-IIx]

Could you give the Tren, Anadrol Synergy relationship?

No.

 

[amindzeye]

I was hoping somebody would bring this up. How the hell would combining a drug that spikes all forms of Estrogen more then any other, with a drug that gives terrible side effects in the presence of high E, be a good idea lol.

From how it sounds, as long as the E is managed, then you get the host of other benefits such as more skeletal muscle cells that are sensitive to igf-1, paired with an increase in igf-1 from the other compound. I assume anadrol increases liver igf-1 secretion, and it has the same synergy as Tren/Dbol

 

[AbstractMind]

From how it sounds, as long as the E is managed, then you get the host of other benefits such as more skeletal muscle cells that are sensitive to igf-1, paired with an increase in igf-1 from the other compound. I assume anadrol increases liver igf-1 secretion, and it has the same synergy as Tren/Dbol

Thank you for clarifying!

 

[Deleted member 123722]

If there were no synergy between compounds then Tren (3X more potent AR agonist than testosterone) at 200 mg would yield the same physique changes and strength increases as 600 mg of testosterone.

There'd be no benefit to combining the two.

Yet, there clearly is, and everyone does it.

Tren is non-aromatizable & non-5α/5β-reducible.

Tren is myotrophic by classical AR genomic action, increasing mIGF-I activity & modulating glucocorticoids by decreasing GR number.

Dbol is aromatizable & 5β-reducible.

Dbol is myotrophic by classical AR genomic action (and other mechanisms I've excluded from all examples), increasing systemic/liver-secreted IGF-I by in situ aromatization & modulating glucocorticoids by decreasing the rate of production of adrenocortical steroids by inhibiting either the production or release of ACTH.

The two have some synergy by acting at different sites of action (1 + 1 > 3).

That is, Tren and Dbol are myotropically synergistic by Dbol's increasing sytemic/liver-secreted IGF-I vs. Tren's decreasing systemic/liver-secreted IGF-I & increasing the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to intramuscular IGF-I. Tren modulates glucocorticoids by decreasing GR number (and likely slightly transactivating GR antagonistically analogously to methyltrienolone), while Dbol decreases ACTH to exert its antiglucocorticoid effects.

Tren 350 mg + Dbol 210 mg weekly yields a different physique (and strength increase, muscle size increase, etc.) than Testosterone 1 g + Methyltest 260 mg weekly.

Meso should make you the official compounds guy, like give you that label under your name lol.

 

[KeenObserver]

My question is what's "in range"? Does it mean not too high on the e2 scale, or not so high that one is manifesting symptoms? I assume the latter.

Yeah it's more the latter for sure IMO. Since one guy could get the high E2 symptoms at a much lower actual E2 level than another guy.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

You don't want to completely tank your estrogen; it is actually necessary for muscle growth and other functions. From what I understand, some of the most dangerous things next to diuretics for bodybuilding are actually the AIs the guys use to dry out for the stage.

 

[OmL]

If there were no synergy between compounds then Tren (3X more potent AR agonist than testosterone) at 200 mg would yield the same physique changes and strength increases as 600 mg of testosterone.

There'd be no benefit to combining the two.

Yet, there clearly is, and everyone does it.

Tren is non-aromatizable & non-5α/5β-reducible.

Tren is myotrophic by classical AR genomic action, increasing mIGF-I activity & modulating glucocorticoids by decreasing GR number.

Dbol is aromatizable & 5β-reducible.

Dbol is myotrophic by classical AR genomic action (and other mechanisms I've excluded from all examples), increasing systemic/liver-secreted IGF-I by in situ aromatization & modulating glucocorticoids by decreasing the rate of production of adrenocortical steroids by inhibiting either the production or release of ACTH.

The two have some synergy by acting at different sites of action (1 + 1 > 3).

That is, Tren and Dbol are myotropically synergistic by Dbol's increasing sytemic/liver-secreted IGF-I vs. Tren's decreasing systemic/liver-secreted IGF-I & increasing the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to intramuscular IGF-I. Tren modulates glucocorticoids by decreasing GR number (and likely slightly transactivating GR antagonistically analogously to methyltrienolone), while Dbol decreases ACTH to exert its antiglucocorticoid effects.

Tren 350 mg + Dbol 210 mg weekly yields a different physique (and strength increase, muscle size increase, etc.) than Testosterone 1 g + Methyltest 260 mg weekly.

This is like a bed time story for me.

 

[Type-IIx]

Meso should make you the official compounds guy, like give you that label under your name lol.

Heh, I'd actually enjoy that role if it was ever offered (doubtful). There's a lot of new information that's been accrued. Tangentially, I consider Chest Rockwell's treatise on growth hormone to be replete with major errors (perhaps the most inaccurate piece that exists on Meso).

I have been investigating synergy between AAS for some time and someone recently referred to Bill Roberts' early (we're talking circa 1998) works on class I & II compounds. He was lightyears ahead (conceptually), though he erred in not recognizing the discrete pathways and functions involved (e.g., glucocorticoid modulation), in specific classifications (e.g., classifying tren as a class I compound), failing to appreciate the number of hybrid compounds (e.g., he viewed stanozolol as a hybrid compound, but failed to recognize that the majority of AAS are hybrid compounds).

I'm reviewing his work presently.