How much does PCT actually suck?

[Jin23]

I am on week 2 of PCT and I feel like ass, 20tamox/50clomid ED, after the HCG left my system in the pre-pct blast I started to pay the price of cycling.

Other times have been smoother.

There really is no need for clomid. That is depression in a pill.

 

[kosp]

There really is no need for clomid. That is depression in a pill.

Depression for real bro... what a shitty day i am having, I didn't have this emotional breakdown in years.

How are you so sure it's the clomid and not the nolva?

 

[kosp]

Depression for real bro... what a shitty day i am having, I didn't have this emotional breakdown in years.

How are you so sure it's the clomid and not the nolva?

Well i did only nolva in previous PCTs and i don't remember it was this bad

 

[Demondosage]

why TRT one day?
are you disowning what God has given you? how are you so sure you will feel like crap later in life when you are aging?

God gave man the ability to make gear, so we aren’t disowning anything here. This is like saying to do away with a pacemaker because God gave you a shitty heart

 

[Jin23]

Depression for real bro... what a shitty day i am having, I didn't have this emotional breakdown in years.

How are you so sure it's the clomid and not the nolva?

Zuclomiphen is the culprit, enclomiphene is ok, I did a pct with it last fall. Tamox is also ok.

This is nothing new, it's a well known fact bro. Nobody uses clomid anymore. Zuclomiphene is basically a very potent estrogen. Enclomiphene is the new standard for pcts, don't see a reason why anybody would use anything else, it's far the most superior compound.

 

[kosp]

Zuclomiphen is the culprit, enclomiphene is ok, I did a pct with it last fall. Tamox is also ok.

This is nothing new, it's a well known fact bro. Nobody uses clomid anymore. Zuclomiphene is basically a very potent estrogen. Enclomiphene is the new standard for pcts, don't see a reason why anybody would use anything else, it's far the most superior compound.

I dropped the clomid today, what a hell of a drug. First time taking it and after 2 weeks in I was having so weird emotionalism and breakdowns like what the fuck dude, thinking negatively about shit of the past like a sorry ass goddamnit

I will do 40mg Tamox a day and that's it. My cycle was mild and I blasted 15.000iu of HCG pre-pct. Anyway recovery will happen regardless of PCT.

 

[Jin23]

I dropped the clomid today, what a hell of a drug. First time taking it and after 2 weeks in I was having so weird emotionalism and breakdowns like what the fuck dude, thinking negatively about shit of the past like a sorry ass goddamnit

I will do 40mg Tamox a day and that's it. My cycle was mild and I blasted 15.000iu of HCG pre-pct. Anyway recovery will happen regardless of PCT.

Bro, god damn, slow down haha. No, do not increase tamox, where are you getting your information from ... For a mild cycle you do not need so much serms, I mean, you don't even need more for a stronger cycle, rather, the duration of the pct lenghtens.

My PCT's were usually 20/20/10/10 tamox. Those were your run of the mill 500mg test + an oral cycle. Maybe you can do 40mg for the first week.

Zuclomiphene has a long half life so it will stay with you for a while, I'm saying you wont be better in a days time.

The problem with clomid in pct is because 1. you have crashed androgens, 2. you had high androgens just a minute ago and now they are crashed so you are going through a strong rebound, and 3. zuclomiphene being a potent estrogen, making things suicidal.

Taking clomid during a cycle or while being natty is something completely different as your androgens are high but during pct it's a completely different story.

Recovery will happen even without SERMs yes, but much slower and thus more painful.

How long after your last injection (of what compound?) did you start the serms? It takes 5 weeks for test E to clear your system and then you can start pct (depending on the dosage you can start it earlier). I'm asking because if 5 weeks didn't yet pass, then keep tamox at a higher dose and then drop.

 

[kosp]

Bro, god damn, slow down haha. No, do not increase tamox, where are you getting your information from ... For a mild cycle you do not need so much serms, I mean, you don't even need more for a stronger cycle, rather, the duration of the pct lenghtens.

My PCT's were usually 20/20/10/10 tamox. Those were your run of the mill 500mg test + an oral cycle. Maybe you can do 40mg for the first week.

Zuclomiphene has a long half life so it will stay with you for a while, I'm saying you wont be better in a days time.

The problem with clomid in pct is because 1. you have crashed androgens, 2. you had high androgens just a minute ago and now they are crashed so you are going through a strong rebound, and 3. zuclomiphene being a potent estrogen, making things suicidal.

Taking clomid during a cycle or while being natty is something completely different as your androgens are high but during pct it's a completely different story.

Recovery will happen even without SERMs yes, but much slower and thus more painful.

How long after your last injection (of what compound?) did you start the serms? It takes 5 weeks for test E to clear your system and then you can start pct (depending on the dosage you can start it earlier). I'm asking because if 5 weeks didn't yet pass, then keep tamox at a higher dose and then drop.

I was doing 400mg test E alone, so pct started 28 days after last pin.

Anyway I metabolize AAS pretty fast as I have seen in my bloodworks. In the past I was doing 500mg Test C and in 16 days after last pin my TT levels were 500ng/dL (it was not underdosed as I did TT intracycle too and it was >4000ng/dL

 

[jewsy]

I know this wont be taken well but honestly my first pct was without the knowledge i now have so i just came off the test and took absolutely nothing. Outside of 0 sex drive i didnt feel too bad and actually felt great the next few months after it. Balls came back nicely on their own and i had alot of energy never had the depressed feeling i some times here folks speak of.

Now im certainly not suggesting thats the way to go but its what i did my first time and it wasnt bad at all in my opinion but as well all know everyone is different.

Since then though i have followed proper pct protocols and still havent felt the shit feeling some speak of once again outside of complete lack of sexual desire for a few weeks. I can say though idk if it was water weight or what but i felt like someone let the air out of me after my first pct. Felt like i loss nearly everything i gained even my then gf would tell me how much of my mass/water i had loss so that is also another con.

 

[kosp]

I know this wont be taken well but honestly my first pct was without the knowledge i now have so i just came off the test and took absolutely nothing. Outside of 0 sex drive i didnt feel too bad and actually felt great the next few months after it. Balls came back nicely on their own and i had alot of energy never had the depressed feeling i some times here folks speak of.

Now im certainly not suggesting thats the way to go but its what i did my first time and it wasnt bad at all in my opinion but as well all know everyone is different.

Since then though i have followed proper pct protocols and still havent felt the shit feeling some speak of once again outside of complete lack of sexual desire for a few weeks. I can say though idk if it was water weight or what but i felt like someone let the air out of me after my first pct. Felt like i loss nearly everything i gained even my then gf would tell me how much of my mass/water i had loss so that is also another con.

That's fine, It's good to hear you recovered fine with no pct.

The depression feeling I had was mainly for the clomid, I have done PCTs with just nolva and doesn't give me that problem.

Agree most noticeable thing in PCT is lack of sex drive, it completely goes to shit and SERMs don't help with that at all, other than that I am keeping strength and mass, just look way softer and the pumps radically deteriorated.

Are you saying you felt that pct drugs made you lose gains compared to not doing pct? Weird

 

[jewsy]

That's fine, It's good to hear you recovered fine with no pct.

The depression feeling I had was mainly for the clomid, I have done PCTs with just nolva and doesn't give me that problem.

Agree most noticeable thing in PCT is lack of sex drive, it completely goes to shit and SERMs don't help with that at all, other than that I am keeping strength and mass, just look way softer and the pumps radically deteriorated.

Are you saying you felt that pct drugs made you lose gains compared to not doing pct? Weird

Oh no im saying the opposite. When I came off using nothing I feel like I loss more... using a proper pct I feel like I was able to hold on to a bit more mass. Honestly though idk could just be more growth over time I saw the biggest difference during pct after the first though with no Nolva as in biggest loss. I felt like someone let the air out of me. I loss alot and loss it fast haha.

 

[kosp]

Oh no im saying the opposite. When I came off using nothing I feel like I loss more... using a proper pct I feel like I was able to hold on to a bit more mass. Honestly though idk could just be more growth over time I saw the biggest difference during pct after the first though with no Nolva as in biggest loss. I felt like someone let the air out of me. I loss alot and loss it fast haha.

OK.

And do you have TT bloodwork?

 

[Henchus maximus98736]

I know this wont be taken well but honestly my first pct was without the knowledge i now have so i just came off the test and took absolutely nothing. Outside of 0 sex drive i didnt feel too bad and actually felt great the next few months after it. Balls came back nicely on their own and i had alot of energy never had the depressed feeling i some times here folks speak of.

Now im certainly not suggesting thats the way to go but its what i did my first time and it wasnt bad at all in my opinion but as well all know everyone is different.

Since then though i have followed proper pct protocols and still havent felt the shit feeling some speak of once again outside of complete lack of sexual desire for a few weeks. I can say though idk if it was water weight or what but i felt like someone let the air out of me after my first pct. Felt like i loss nearly everything i gained even my then gf would tell me how much of my mass/water i had loss so that is also another con.

You’re a blessed individual, but do not take that with a pinch of salt. If you continue to disrupt what god gave you; you will suffer.

An old timer pro body builder once said to me, 12 weeks on 12 MONTH off… if you want to recover that is.

 

[marsupial]

Bro, god damn, slow down haha. No, do not increase tamox, where are you getting your information from ... For a mild cycle you do not need so much serms, I mean, you don't even need more for a stronger cycle, rather, the duration of the pct lenghtens.

My PCT's were usually 20/20/10/10 tamox. Those were your run of the mill 500mg test + an oral cycle. Maybe you can do 40mg for the first week.

Zuclomiphene has a long half life so it will stay with you for a while, I'm saying you wont be better in a days time.

The problem with clomid in pct is because 1. you have crashed androgens, 2. you had high androgens just a minute ago and now they are crashed so you are going through a strong rebound, and 3. zuclomiphene being a potent estrogen, making things suicidal.

Taking clomid during a cycle or while being natty is something completely different as your androgens are high but during pct it's a completely different story.

Recovery will happen even without SERMs yes, but much slower and thus more painful.

How long after your last injection (of what compound?) did you start the serms? It takes 5 weeks for test E to clear your system and then you can start pct (depending on the dosage you can start it earlier). I'm asking because if 5 weeks didn't yet pass, then keep tamox at a higher dose and then drop.

I don’t understand what the difference is between moderate and heavy cycle if you’re shut down either way, and if you’re shut down anyhow, nolva will, to some extent, do its two jobs

1. Signalling your brain at estrogen receptors that creates a false impression of “too much estrogen”…in order to disinhibit the HPG axis
2. Blocking estrogen receptors in your nipples to prevent gyno while your test/estrogen ratio becomes favorable for gyno post cycle

You may need more doses just as an individual but if your HPG is turned off, I don’t see the different in amount of serm medication needed for a “mild” or “heavy” cycle