How much does PCT actually suck?

[Country Club Hero]

Its funny as I've always thought this too - I was way hornier on natty test than I have ever been loaded up on anabolics of all kinds. Even though the natural production is much lower it works so much better at making you feel great doesn't it, at least thats how I remember it 8 years ago now Lol. Problem is now being over 40 I cannot help but think if I did somehow get full natty again my lifts would be worse than that of a 12 year old LMAO.

Oh I understand. I’m 42. Been using for 13 years. 8 of those blasting and cruising. But starting last July I think, I quit blasting and went straight micro doses of TRT and started experimenting with different add ons trying to get my natural testosterone working decently again and trying to regain the feeling of being on my PCT protocol during my early, test only cycles. My libido and happiness was next level during those early PCTs. So I have been researching as to what I am missing now that I was getting back then. Unfortunately it’s pretty damn complicated. Lots of upstream and downstream chemicals are affected and negated when we blast hormones. And come to find out, those chemicals are pretty important in the big picture.

If I could go back I would have never started cruising. I would have done a handful of cycles and a power PCT after each. Then once I had acquired the mass I wanted I would just stay natural and use things like Enclomiphene, tongkat-Ali, fadogia agrestis, HCG on occasion to keep my natural levels optimized. Oh well. Live and learn I guess.

 

[Henchus maximus98736]

Life is better natural. Never knock anyone who has to pin for that reason however.
Use it or lose it or fucking accept it.

 

[lukiss96]

Life is better natural. Never knock anyone who has to pin for that reason however.
Use it or lose it or fucking accept it.

With the world we live in and all that fake shit, it's unknown whether it's better to stay natural or become synthetic/enhanced just like everything around us is lol...

 

[SenorSuperdrol]

I personally think you should wait 5 half lives of the test C to start pct, not two weeks. I’d extend the cycle to make your last shot right before the trip starts. You’ll be supraphysiological for the whole trip and you can pct after, when you can keep you diet and training in check to keep your gains.

 

[Demondosage]

Life is better natural? Sure, keep telling yourselves that. Because most guys in their 40’s+ walking around look happy, healthy, and don’t have a gut rt? FUCK THAT, GIVE ME THE TRT!!!!!

 

[kosp]

I personally think you should wait 5 half lives of the test C to start pct, not two weeks. I’d extend the cycle to make your last shot right before the trip starts. You’ll be supraphysiological for the whole trip and you can pct after, when you can keep you diet and training in check to keep your gains.

I once did bloodwork after 10 weeks of 500mg of TEST C, 16 days after last pin my TT was 500ng/dL, and during cycle above 4000. 3 weeks is enough imo.

 

[Jin23]

I once did bloodwork after 10 weeks of 500mg of TEST C, 16 days after last pin my TT was 500ng/dL, and during cycle above 4000. 3 weeks is enough imo.

That would suggest a 5.5 day half life in your particular case. Still, the commenter you quoted is correct, you should not dismiss it. Just take a minute and do the math.

You should wait 5 half life's before starting the serm, unless the initial dose was in the TRT range. At 21 days, your TT will still be 250 and in 27 days around 100. However, your DHT and free T levels will still be higher then you'd expect. Some estrogen is also going to linger a bit longer, but that doesn't matter that much since the serm will be doing it's job ... In any case, if you'd start at 250 TT, you'll still have suppression and the SERM will be fighting a a harder battle and you'll needlessly burden your liver and the gut with a toxic drug. Even at day 27 you'll still have some androgens suppressing you, but not that much, and you'll be able to start slowly recovering. But honestly, at day 30 - 35, you'll be fully ready, however, it's more painful to transition this way, as there would be a longer gap of very low androgen's, so this is why we start at the 5th HL ...

You can do another set of bloods and measure free T and DHT, so you'll definitely now for the next PCT how it works in your body.

 

[kosp]

That would suggest a 5.5 day half life in your particular case. Still, the commenter you quoted is correct, you should not dismiss it. Just take a minute and do the math.

You should wait 5 half life's before starting the serm, unless the initial dose was in the TRT range. At 21 days, your TT will still be 250 and in 27 days around 100. However, your DHT and free T levels will still be higher then you'd expect. Some estrogen is also going to linger a bit longer, but that doesn't matter that much since the serm will be doing it's job ... In any case, if you'd start at 250 TT, you'll still have suppression and the SERM will be fighting a a harder battle and you'll needlessly burden your liver and the gut with a toxic drug. Even at day 27 you'll still have some androgens suppressing you, but not that much, and you'll be able to start slowly recovering. But honestly, at day 30 - 35, you'll be fully ready, however, it's more painful to transition this way, as there would be a longer gap of very low androgen's, so this is why we start at the 5th HL ...

You can do another set of bloods and measure free T and DHT, so you'll definitely now for the next PCT how it works in your body.

sounds right yeah, yes it´s better to wait 30 days and make 100% sure that your body is ready to pump LH/FSH with the serms.

 

[kosp]

for me, that i use AAS very sporadically, low doses, and just test+orals, PCT is like nothing, maybe 2 or 3 weird days, that´s all.

 

[Jin23]

for me, that i use AAS very sporadically, low doses, and just test+orals, PCT is like nothing, maybe 2 or 3 weird days, that´s all.

Even with short 3 month cycles, I always needed app 3 months to feel normal again.

 

[kosp]

Even with short 3 month cycles, I always needed app 3 months to feel normal again.

I see, probably is because when i did it i was 24 years old

 

[kosp]

The younger you are, the easier it is to recover, I wonder at what age things start to get tough, >30?

 

[prinzmio]

I am 40 yo, finished a 12-weeks cycle of 400-mg test and some anavar sprinkled in mostly pre-workout (avg around 20 mg/day). Now in my 4th week PCT on Nolva 20mg and Enclo 25mg and feeling pretty good!

 

[cdoubleu]

Didn’t suck too bad for me.
Clomid and Nolva combo had me strong and energetic with balls on swole.

 

[skinnyman]

I have been doing gears for 13 years now. I’m 42. Still to this day my libido has never been better than on my first few PCTs of my early cycles. I had Clomid, Nolva, HCG and a supp called HCGenerate. All that is probably overkill for a simple 500mg Test only cycle lol but I’ve probably never felt better than when I was all hopped up on PCT drugs.

Those days didn’t last forever though because I started blasting and cruising a few years later. But don’t fear PCT. Your genetics and lifestyle/routine will determine how much gains you will keep. I was very surprised to learn most of my gains would remain. It was pretty easy to keep and maintain as long as you are feeding it enough and still training while off.

What did you PCT look like and did you use HCG during cycle?

 

[Country Club Hero]

What did you PCT look like and did you use HCG during cycle?

I honestly can’t remember if I used HCG on cycle or waited until PCT. I believe I tried both approaches.

I probably wasn’t too shut down to begin with after 12 weeks of just 500mg of Test. But I still hit the clomid, nolva, HCG and the natural herbs known for ramping up test.

It was also an important time in my life because I was fresh off a divorce and reintroducing myself to the meat market. The blasting of hormones and PCTs served me well during that time in hindsight.

 

[trengod1992]

I’m on my extended 4 month protocol ( trying for a baby after trt for 7 years) it doesn’t totally suck. I feel the same except I get a tad more fatigued after workouts and a tad bit of brain fog.

 

[NortLorbe]

I am 40 yo, finished a 12-weeks cycle of 400-mg test and some anavar sprinkled in mostly pre-workout (avg around 20 mg/day). Now in my 4th week PCT on Nolva 20mg and Enclo 25mg and feeling pretty good!

25mg of Enclo is a ton from what I've read. Not experiencing any sides?

 

[prinzmio]

25mg of Enclo is a ton from what I've read. Not experiencing any sides?

Did 4 weeks of Enclo 25mg & Nolva 20mg, then 2 weeks of Enclo 12.5mg & Nolva 10mg, and just finished a final week of only Enclo 12.5mg. Zero sides and feeling good throughout. Bloods after 4 weeks had my test around 450 ng (and crazy high LH/FSH), now waiting another month to get another round of bloods.

 

[rogerdodger]

. But I still hit the clomid, nolva, HCG and the natural herbs known for ramping up test.

What herbs are you referencing? I am currently on PCT and wondering if I should start taking DHEA and Boron supplements again, and maybe some other things, but I'm worried that I would be throwing too many ingredients into the hormone stew. DHEA and Boron supplements have worked for me in the past (to raise my constantly low DHEA, and the Boron upped my Testosterone by about 120ish points), but those supplements also spiked my E2. Since I'm taking nolvadex 20mg per day, maybe my E2 won't spike this time if I take those again?

PS I don't feel any different on Nolvadex, is that normal? I feel like it's not doing anything (Odin brand, maybe it's bunk, I don't know, their testosterone was legit). I just quit Test C 18 days ago. I feel really fatigued every day. Since this is my first PCT, I have nothing else to compare it with, so don't know if I'm feeling how I should, if the Nolvadex I'm using is fake, or if this is just how going through PCT feels.