Nolvadex / Tamoxifen is an excellent SERM, but how many milligrams of Estrogen will it actually block in a situation where homebrew Test Prop did not eliminate all the Estrogen? Potentially there are 20 mg's of E to 200 mg's of Test Prop. ONE mg of E is a common every-day dose for birth control for women, so 20 mg's is a TONof E! So MODS & Experts, just how many mg's of E will 20 mg of Tamoxifen block? What is the maximum E blockage that can be attained with say, 40 mgs of Tamoxifen per day? ... with 60 mgs per day?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
How much Estrogen will Tamoxifen block?
- Thread starter GymChamp
- Start date
The potential is not nearly that bad, because the solubility of estradiol benzoate in oil is very low.
I had a period where I was using TP principally as an intended source of estrogen, as the rest of my cycle was non-aromatizing and it's advisable to have an estrogen source in such as case. (This can be an aromatizing steroid, HCG, or Clomid which serves as an estrogen for this purpose.)
I relied only on the low solubility of EB in vegetable oil. I used no more vegetable oil than necessary to dissolve the TP: one mL of finished solution per 50 mg of TP. I estimate that EB would have ended up being about 0.5 mg/mL.
It may be important that I used no benzyl benzoate in the preparation, as EB very likely has more solubility improvement from addition of BB than testosterone propionate dose. I used no benzyl alcohol either, for the same reason.
I don't now recall how much I used, but it was probably no more than 200 mg TP per week. So this might have been about 2 mg estradiol per week, with no SERM. I had no problems with it.
The point of the above is really only to be an anecdote and an illustration that the finished product should not wind up being anything like 10% EB.
How much Nolvadex needed to block? I don't know, it depends on usage. I would be reluctant to use high doses of TP made in the above way -- no selective removal of EB except with regard to solubility properties -- regardless of amount of Nolvadex. But for example if using 500 mg/week of TP made this way, as a personal opinion I suppose I'd be happy with the typical 20 mg/day Nolvadex, if also frontloaded. However, really what I would do is seek out better testosterone propionate!
I had a period where I was using TP principally as an intended source of estrogen, as the rest of my cycle was non-aromatizing and it's advisable to have an estrogen source in such as case. (This can be an aromatizing steroid, HCG, or Clomid which serves as an estrogen for this purpose.)
I relied only on the low solubility of EB in vegetable oil. I used no more vegetable oil than necessary to dissolve the TP: one mL of finished solution per 50 mg of TP. I estimate that EB would have ended up being about 0.5 mg/mL.
It may be important that I used no benzyl benzoate in the preparation, as EB very likely has more solubility improvement from addition of BB than testosterone propionate dose. I used no benzyl alcohol either, for the same reason.
I don't now recall how much I used, but it was probably no more than 200 mg TP per week. So this might have been about 2 mg estradiol per week, with no SERM. I had no problems with it.
The point of the above is really only to be an anecdote and an illustration that the finished product should not wind up being anything like 10% EB.
How much Nolvadex needed to block? I don't know, it depends on usage. I would be reluctant to use high doses of TP made in the above way -- no selective removal of EB except with regard to solubility properties -- regardless of amount of Nolvadex. But for example if using 500 mg/week of TP made this way, as a personal opinion I suppose I'd be happy with the typical 20 mg/day Nolvadex, if also frontloaded. However, really what I would do is seek out better testosterone propionate!
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Thanks very much, Bill. I previously read about your use of TP to supply minimum E. I understand the E is not especially soluble in BB and BA, but what about that new thin oil, Ethyl Oleate? Would it be helpful to withhold the BA and BB if using only Ethyl Oleate as the oil medium? Hopefully the use of NaOH at 0.5 gm to a 10 gm conversion solution of Syno-H allows most of the E to be rinsed/washed away during the two gallons of distilled water rinsing/washing of the crystals. I'm one of the "sensitive" chaps when it comes to gyno, so I want to be extra careful, and that might mean just do without. And if a better source were available, there would be no need of this discussion. But for some time in my little corner of the world, everything else is 100% fake, and I do not mean simply counterfeit, I mean no product in the oil, and especially not in any tablet, and I have no clue for a source of genuine powder that doesn't alert the Gestapo. OK I won't cry on your shoulder any longer! Many thanks for sharing your knowledge, Bill, because TRUTH is burried deep and most often disguised as a lot of hard work!
Ethyl oleate should be fine.
Adding benzyl alcohol after mixing and filtering is fine too.
Aim to use no more ethyl oleate than needed to dissolve the TP, assuming (this will be imperfect but that's okay) your crystals to be entirely TP. Unfortunately I don't know the solubility of TP in ethyl oleate. As a guess, let's say 60 mg/mL as the solubility in straight vegetable oil is 50 mg/mL, and the ethyl oleate should do a little better.
(If anyone has figures for any specific steroid on the solubility difference when changing vegetable oil to ethyl oleate, this could enable a better estimate!)
So after preparing it at a nominal 60 mg/mL, you could add enough BA to bring the BA concentration to 2%, if desired, and end up with 59 mg/mL.
Or, as the 60 mg/mL was pure guesswork anyway, why not aim for 61 mg/mL initially and end up probably at the rounder number of 60 mg/mL after the BA addition.
In the worst case, even if the powder had had say 5% EB or even 10% EB, it's unlikely the final preparation would be much worse than about 1% EB.
Adding benzyl alcohol after mixing and filtering is fine too.
Aim to use no more ethyl oleate than needed to dissolve the TP, assuming (this will be imperfect but that's okay) your crystals to be entirely TP. Unfortunately I don't know the solubility of TP in ethyl oleate. As a guess, let's say 60 mg/mL as the solubility in straight vegetable oil is 50 mg/mL, and the ethyl oleate should do a little better.
(If anyone has figures for any specific steroid on the solubility difference when changing vegetable oil to ethyl oleate, this could enable a better estimate!)
So after preparing it at a nominal 60 mg/mL, you could add enough BA to bring the BA concentration to 2%, if desired, and end up with 59 mg/mL.
Or, as the 60 mg/mL was pure guesswork anyway, why not aim for 61 mg/mL initially and end up probably at the rounder number of 60 mg/mL after the BA addition.
In the worst case, even if the powder had had say 5% EB or even 10% EB, it's unlikely the final preparation would be much worse than about 1% EB.
This thread has been revealing and eye-opening for me. Since I am so used to dealing with prescription meds, I wrongly assumed that UGL AAS were made to pharmaceutical (i.e., prescription) grade. Can you provide the range of estradiol administered with these preparations? [There are studies of E2 administration in AD. I am curious to relate them.]
UGL preparations generally, and perhaps never, have estradiol benzoate or any other form of estradiol as a contaminant. Instead they are made from made-in-China testosterone ester powders. Manufacture of these powders does not result in any estradiol as a side product.
Cattle pellets are available which include estradiol benzoate as a component. Some convert these at home to injectable testosterone preparations.
Personally, I've only done it in the above rather unusual way where the usage actually was intended to support estrogen levels during a non-aromatizable cycle; and also years back I'd used a recrystallization method which would have resulted in virtually zero contamination, for use at the 1 g/week level. That method however requires rotary evaporation equipment which the home user cannot reasonably acquire.
There are other methods involving chemical reaction which in some cases seem to be satisfactory. But I haven't used them myself and so can't comment too much on precise details. The processes can easily be done wrongly, unfortunately.
Cattle pellets are available which include estradiol benzoate as a component. Some convert these at home to injectable testosterone preparations.
Personally, I've only done it in the above rather unusual way where the usage actually was intended to support estrogen levels during a non-aromatizable cycle; and also years back I'd used a recrystallization method which would have resulted in virtually zero contamination, for use at the 1 g/week level. That method however requires rotary evaporation equipment which the home user cannot reasonably acquire.
There are other methods involving chemical reaction which in some cases seem to be satisfactory. But I haven't used them myself and so can't comment too much on precise details. The processes can easily be done wrongly, unfortunately.
mac111
New Member
why do mppl think that nolva should be popped like sweets?
10mg pd on a medium to heavy cycle is enough for me and im estro side prone, 40-60mg pd is just ludicrous imho
10mg pd on a medium to heavy cycle is enough for me and im estro side prone, 40-60mg pd is just ludicrous imho
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