HPTA restart help

[Athleticgingerpta]

Hey guys, long time lurker on this site especially Jay Monks recovery log. Long story is I did a 20 week deca/test cycle back in 2010 when I was 25 and never fully recovered from it. A year later I got my test measured during an afternoon draw at 421 and free test 96. I was convinced to start TRT which I did for 6 months before quitting as they did not allow HCG. This was 2014. Ever since then dozens of labs all showing test in the mid 200s with LH/FSH in the low range. I was diagnosed secondary hypo.
I decided to finally try a power pct last October. I did 4 shots of 2,000iu HCG e3d then 1 shot of 1,500 followed by the nolva clomid and Aromasin. My test was 789 during the serms, 579 8 weeks post pct, 341 12 weeks post pct and now 17 weeks post pct labs:
Total test: 341 (264-916)
Estradiol: 19.8 (7.6-42.6)
LH 11.8 (1.7-8.6) High
FSH 6.0 (1.5-12.4)
So it’s been about four and a half months since my last serm and now I’m confused on what to do next. Is it possible my levels dropped below 341 between weeks 12 and the most recent labs and now they’re on the upswing and it’s just a coincidence on week 17 they’re still 341? Or did the HCG desensitize my leydig cells and in a month or two they will react to the LH?

 

[The Terminator]

Nah dude I highly doubt the hCG desensitized your balls. It’s important when you’re not on roids to get bloods drawn early, like 8am, or 7am-10am, that’s when levels are the highest, later in the day levels fluctuate. Not sure what made you decide to start trt since your T was normal.

Only thing I can think of right now would be getting another blood test if it’s been several weeks since the last one, except this time get it done early, check everything, and sure it’s possible it’s gone down or up, a lot of things can influence it, sleep, diet etc. So far you’ve only been focused on #’s, but do you actually feel bad?

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

Nah dude I highly doubt the hCG desensitized your balls. It’s important when you’re not on roids to get bloods drawn early, like 8am, or 7am-10am, that’s when levels are the highest, later in the day levels fluctuate. Not sure what made you decide to start trt since your T was normal.

Only thing I can think of right now would be getting another blood test if it’s been several weeks since the last one, except this time get it done early, check everything, and sure it’s possible it’s gone down or up, a lot of things can influence it, sleep, diet etc. So far you’ve only been focused on #’s, but do you actually feel bad?

Yes these draws were all done before 10:30AM. Funny thing is my highest testosterone levels were actually taken around noon during those years I waited for my natural production to return. Yeah looking back I shouldn’t have let that anti aging clinic convince me I was low. I now know I was still being affected by the Deca.
I’m tired, worsening skin issues over the years, no libido, anxiety, brain fog. The only thing that semi improved from the power pct was now I get weak morning wood once every two weeks or so when it had been years since I’ve had one.
I’ve searched high and low to find anyone with an issue similar to mine. I still don’t understand how I had low test with low LH and now I have low test with high LH after four 2,000iu HCG shots.

 

[The Terminator]

Yes these draws were all done before 10:30AM. Funny thing is my highest testosterone levels were actually taken around noon during those years I waited for my natural production to return. Yeah looking back I shouldn’t have let that anti aging clinic convince me I was low. I now know I was still being affected by the Deca.
I’m tired, worsening skin issues over the years, no libido, anxiety, brain fog. The only thing that semi improved from the power pct was now I get weak morning wood once every two weeks or so when it had been years since I’ve had one.
I’ve searched high and low to find anyone with an issue similar to mine. I still don’t understand how I had low test with low LH and now I have low test with high LH after four 2,000iu HCG shots.

Those anti aging/wellness clinics just wanna make $. Yeah that is pretty weird, I mean if the high LH low T was a one time thing I guess its not so weird, but if it’s like that all the time and long after serms, then idk. I doubt that 5 shots of hCG totaling 9500iu would harm you, if it did you’d be the first person. Is everything else healthy, weight, diet, sleep, exercise, no drugs/alcohol etc ?

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

Those anti aging/wellness clinics just wanna make $. Yeah that is pretty weird, I mean if the high LH low T was a one time thing I guess its not so weird, but if it’s like that all the time and long after serms, then idk. I doubt that 5 shots of hCG totaling 9500iu would harm you, if it did you’d be the first person. Is everything else healthy, weight, diet, sleep, exercise, no drugs/alcohol etc ?

Yeah I’ve been lifting weights and doing cardio for about 16 years now, last 11 years I haven’t missed a workout for more than a week. Eat healthy at home and drink a couple beers a week. Not much and I never get drunk.
My strength and muscle mass is fine. 6 ft 195 around 15 percent body fat. Especially for being low t for so long so I’ve really worked hard for that.
I’m sitting on 14,500 iu of HCG and clomid/nolva for another run but I also start PA school in August and would be risking entering the program on a hormonal rollercoaster.
I think I retest in a week or two and based off that do another pct run. I’m thinking nolva with the HCG from the start that way I keep my Lh from being suppressed. Then switch to low dose clomid for 6 months or so to really give the leydig cells time to get to work.
I just have no idea what dose HCG to use. Should I stick to 2,000iu or should I lower? If it means anything last summer I did 1,000iu HCG for two weeks and my total test only went to 495. After that is when I saved up and did the 2,000iu pct in October of last year.
My endo tried clomid alone a few years back and 50mg eod only raised me to the 400s and then 500iu of HCG only raised me to around 420. It wasn’t until this last high dose pct that I got to the 789 with serms and actually maintained 579 8 weeks post. I usually always dropped to the 200s after 4 weeks.

 

[master.on]

Hey guys, long time lurker on this site especially Jay Monks recovery log. Long story is I did a 20 week deca/test cycle back in 2010 when I was 25 and never fully recovered from it. A year later I got my test measured during an afternoon draw at 421 and free test 96. I was convinced to start TRT which I did for 6 months before quitting as they did not allow HCG. This was 2014. Ever since then dozens of labs all showing test in the mid 200s with LH/FSH in the low range. I was diagnosed secondary hypo.
I decided to finally try a power pct last October. I did 4 shots of 2,000iu HCG e3d then 1 shot of 1,500 followed by the nolva clomid and Aromasin. My test was 789 during the serms, 579 8 weeks post pct, 341 12 weeks post pct and now 17 weeks post pct labs:
Total test: 341 (264-916)
Estradiol: 19.8 (7.6-42.6)
LH 11.8 (1.7-8.6) High
FSH 6.0 (1.5-12.4)
So it’s been about four and a half months since my last serm and now I’m confused on what to do next. Is it possible my levels dropped below 341 between weeks 12 and the most recent labs and now they’re on the upswing and it’s just a coincidence on week 17 they’re still 341? Or did the HCG desensitize my leydig cells and in a month or two they will react to the LH?

HCG didn't harm you
it's quite the opposite: you didn't use HCG long enough.

High HCG dosages over a short period of time if just stupid, even if that was prescribed by a doctor.

For proper recovery you'd need low HCG dosages over several months.
Something like:
250 total IU per WEEK for 1 month or 4 weeks, split as much as you can over the week, at least split to 3 injections.

Get Test and Estradiol bloodwork.

Bump to 500 IU per week for 1 month/4 weeks

Get Test and Estradiol bloodwork

If Estradiol begins to skyrocket, take an Aromatase Inhibitor.

Repeat at 500 IU/week for 4-5 months, preferably getting bloodwork every month.

Do not increase your HCG dosage.

 

[The Terminator]

Yeah I’ve been lifting weights and doing cardio for about 16 years now, last 11 years I haven’t missed a workout for more than a week. Eat healthy at home and drink a couple beers a week. Not much and I never get drunk.
My strength and muscle mass is fine. 6 ft 195 around 15 percent body fat. Especially for being low t for so long so I’ve really worked hard for that.
I’m sitting on 14,500 iu of HCG and clomid/nolva for another run but I also start PA school in August and would be risking entering the program on a hormonal rollercoaster.
I think I retest in a week or two and based off that do another pct run. I’m thinking nolva with the HCG from the start that way I keep my Lh from being suppressed. Then switch to low dose clomid for 6 months or so to really give the leydig cells time to get to work.
I just have no idea what dose HCG to use. Should I stick to 2,000iu or should I lower? If it means anything last summer I did 1,000iu HCG for two weeks and my total test only went to 495. After that is when I saved up and did the 2,000iu pct in October of last year.
My endo tried clomid alone a few years back and 50mg eod only raised me to the 400s and then 500iu of HCG only raised me to around 420. It wasn’t until this last high dose pct that I got to the 789 with serms and actually maintained 579 8 weeks post. I usually always dropped to the 200s after 4 weeks.

Ah ok just curious cause bad diet, lack of exercise, poor sleep etc can affect T levels. When you say you used 1000 or 2000iu is that total per week or per shot and how often? From what I’ve read when the gonads have been suppressed for whatever reason it can take some time to raise T levels to mid normal, high normal etc, if you’ve been suppressed for some time I don’t think 1 single large shot will get you from 150 to 800, but it can over time.

I would start lower and then increase if necessary,

 

[nervje]

What was the reason you quit trt?
And how did you feel DURING trt?

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

What was the reason you quit trt?
And how did you feel DURING trt?

I shouldn’t have been on it to begin with. I didn’t have low t. Everybody says you can easily go back to your previous levels after cessation of TRT but clearly that didn’t work for me.

 

[nervje]

I shouldn’t have been on it to begin with. I didn’t have low t. Everybody says you can easily go back to your previous levels after cessation of TRT but clearly that didn’t work for me.

But at the end of the day, did you feel good on it? (its a question i am curious to know for myself).

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

I did feel better on it and within a week or two on it my rosacea disappeared. But even on it I never got morning wood and my libido never improved. It improved anxiety/brain fog/confidence/muscle mass but not anything sexual.

 

[chileandawg]

I did feel better on it and within a week or two on it my rosacea disappeared. But even on it I never got morning wood and my libido never improved. It improved anxiety/brain fog/confidence/muscle mass but not anything sexual.

Man brainfog in my case increased with no cortisol control

I did a free breakfast and during the day i order the puzzle

 

[nervje]

I did feel better on it and within a week or two on it my rosacea disappeared. But even on it I never got morning wood and my libido never improved. It improved anxiety/brain fog/confidence/muscle mass but not anything sexual.

So I take it, that your libido/wellbeing has never been good anymore since this deca cycle 9 years ago, 4 years after the pct of this deca cycle you got put on trt in 2014 due to "low levels" and basically since around 2015 where you stopped trt youre having low t or symptoms of it..i guess the timeframe after the deca cycle you felt shit too (for 4 years) hence you checked if you were low on levels so you would need trt? Or did you actually feel good and went onto trt because the doctor was saying you should do it?

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

So I take it, that your libido/wellbeing has never been good anymore since this deca cycle 9 years ago, 4 years after the pct of this deca cycle you got put on trt in 2014 due to "low levels" and basically since around 2015 where you stopped trt youre having low t or symptoms of it..i guess the timeframe after the deca cycle you felt shit too (for 4 years) hence you checked if you were low on levels so you would need trt? Or did you actually feel good and went onto trt because the doctor was saying you should do it?

Pretty close. Yes I kept waiting for my morning wood and libido to return after the deca cycle and it never happened. I used to get it everyday. I didn’t feel like I did pre steroid use but probably because my pct after the deca cycle (20 weeks mind you) was one shot of HCG at 1,000ius. That is literally all I did. Stupid as hell.
On the six months of TRT I felt like a new man on most aspects besides libido. Maybe I should’ve spent more time getting it dialed in but the clinic refused HCG and I didn’t want to be permanently shut down after doing some research.
Fast forward to today and I’m tempted to just say f it and do the TRT because at least it will clear up my skin and drop my anxiety.
Any chance at restoring my hpta or am I f’d?
I have done countless clomid only restarts and low dose HCG restarts to no avail. This last power pct is the only time my TT has raised above 500. It gave me hope

 

[nervje]

Pretty close. Yes I kept waiting for my morning wood and libido to return after the deca cycle and it never happened. I used to get it everyday. I didn’t feel like I did pre steroid use but probably because my pct after the deca cycle (20 weeks mind you) was one shot of HCG at 1,000ius. That is literally all I did. Stupid as hell.
On the six months of TRT I felt like a new man on most aspects besides libido. Maybe I should’ve spent more time getting it dialed in but the clinic refused HCG and I didn’t want to be permanently shut down after doing some research.
Fast forward to today and I’m tempted to just say f it and do the TRT because at least it will clear up my skin and drop my anxiety.
Any chance at restoring my hpta or am I f’d?
I have done countless clomid only restarts and low dose HCG restarts to no avail. This last power pct is the only time my TT has raised above 500. It gave me hope

Im probably worse than u lol because ive started gear at 20 THROUGHOUT to now at almost 26 years and am coming off atm, xou can find my log in this section.
Two things that may have fucked u are:
Not tapering off the deca, pct straight after deca must be hell because of its long half life
And the use of almost no hcg.
I went to pct off after 3 years and a few months and during this period ive done deca, tren and all those evil 19nor steroids.
But I did taper down to test only and tapered my test dosages down over 2-3 months before starting pct.
Not sure how well you can call it recovered, but i remember 0 libido during the clomid/nolva period of pct, then around 2 weeks after stopping them (it was a 4week clomid/6 week nolva protocol) my libido shot back up, including nightly boners. Stupid me went onto gear again right after pct stopped until now

I do the almost same approach now, 2 years later.
Tapered testosterone only down since end of february and had my last injection 2 weeks ago, and i do a hcg protocol now.

You might try it aswell.
Go for labs in a week or 2 to see if its still sitting at 341, if its higher than i guess it just takes some more time, if its lower, you might want to try the power pct aswell.

I allow myself to post it here, its what I do right now

Day 1-21: hcg 1500iu e3d
Day 15-45: clomid 2x50mg per day + nolva 20mg per day

Honestly I would just do trt now and not care about anything but im somehow afraid of it changing its effects in like 20 years when im 45.
I am doing perfectly fine at 150mg test a week, libidowise and wellbeing-wise.
Only concern i have is, not feeling the same at this protocol when im in my 40s or 50s AND in my country they wont prescribe trt to young dudes like me so I would have to self prescribe it, which is another aspect why it sucks (constantly looking for sources, importing gear, not exactly knowing if it has inside what it says it is and so on).

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

Im probably worse than u lol because ive started gear at 20 THROUGHOUT to now at almost 26 years and am coming off atm, xou can find my log in this section.
Two things that may have fucked u are:
Not tapering off the deca, pct straight after deca must be hell because of its long half life
And the use of almost no hcg.
I went to pct off after 3 years and a few months and during this period ive done deca, tren and all those evil 19nor steroids.
But I did taper down to test only and tapered my test dosages down over 2-3 months before starting pct.
Not sure how well you can call it recovered, but i remember 0 libido during the clomid/nolva period of pct, then around 2 weeks after stopping them (it was a 4week clomid/6 week nolva protocol) my libido shot back up, including nightly boners. Stupid me went onto gear again right after pct stopped until now

I do the almost same approach now, 2 years later.
Tapered testosterone only down since end of february and had my last injection 2 weeks ago, and i do a hcg protocol now.

You might try it aswell.
Go for labs in a week or 2 to see if its still sitting at 341, if its higher than i guess it just takes some more time, if its lower, you might want to try the power pct aswell.

I allow myself to post it here, its what I do right now

Day 1-21: hcg 1500iu e3d
Day 15-45: clomid 2x50mg per day + nolva 20mg per day

Honestly I would just do trt now and not care about anything but im somehow afraid of it changing its effects in like 20 years when im 45.
I am doing perfectly fine at 150mg test a week, libidowise and wellbeing-wise.
Only concern i have is, not feeling the same at this protocol when im in my 40s or 50s AND in my country they wont prescribe trt to young dudes like me so I would have to self prescribe it, which is another aspect why it sucks (constantly looking for sources, importing gear, not exactly knowing if it has inside what it says it is and so on).

I have a similar way of thinking and I don’t want to be chained to a doctor and I don’t want to have to worry about injections. I would be ecstatic with a TT over 400. Hell I was going to be happy if my last labs showed 360 lol

 

[nervje]

I have a similar way of thinking and I don’t want to be chained to a doctor and I don’t want to have to worry about injections. I would be ecstatic with a TT over 400. Hell I was going to be happy if my last labs showed 360 lol

Well i thought about one of those online consultants or whatever they are, they are pretty popular in trt groups on facebook but i dont know exactly how they work.
As far as i know, they prescribe you yiur testosterone and whatever you need if you send them your labreports or some shit.
At least its like that for usa, no clue if theres something similar in europe, where im located.
My doctor wants me to go off cold and wait 6 weeks to get bloods taken.
Dont want to imagine what he does when he sees i crashed horribly.

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

Well i thought about one of those online consultants or whatever they are, they are pretty popular in trt groups on facebook but i dont know exactly how they work.
As far as i know, they prescribe you yiur testosterone and whatever you need if you send them your labreports or some shit.
At least its like that for usa, no clue if theres something similar in europe, where im located.
My doctor wants me to go off cold and wait 6 weeks to get bloods taken.
Dont want to imagine what he does when he sees i crashed horribly.

I have an endo but he wants me to do TRT. I actually have a full vial of test cyp that’s been in my medicine cabinet for a year now unused.

 

[nervje]

I have an endo but he wants me to do TRT. I actually have a full vial of test cyp that’s been in my medicine cabinet for a year now unused.

Well in your case, id try the power pct approach if you really dont want to go back on trt.
But if you do and your doc doesnt prescribe hcg, just get it from one of the sources on here and incorporate into the protocol yourself.
You can check if its legit via a pregnancy test (even though hcg is hardly faked) and even check for proper dosing (exactly 5000ius like it usually says) if you dilute it in like a full bottle of water (1 Liter), but the exact way how to measure is somewhere to be found online.
If hcg is your only cocnern, its not that big of a deal, as long as your doctor does regular bloodtesting.
Imo the most important thing is getting regular prescriptions and LEGIT pharmgrad testosterone, which you are obviously getting.
Remember, if you dont recover, you are set at least on trt, maybe it helps to relax mentally.
About libido, its all about the right protocol.
Some dudes hit perfect bloodlevels on trt and have low libido still, then they lower/up the dosage where bloodlevels arent perfect but they feel better and sudden rise in libido.
Remember, its not all about what the paper says, its how your body responds to certain levels.

I have had better hardons on 150mg test per week than I had on 180mg test.
But on 250 mg a week im a walking boner.
Which is too high for trt, but just as an example.
Middle way was least successfull libidowise.
On 150mg man i wanted to eat nasty asshole because i was so horny.

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

331 Total test from yesterday's labs. Feeling kinda depressed. I see people have recovered to this level after years of blasting and cruising. What the hell? I literally did 6 months of 200mg cypionate ew as TRT and now I'm screwed to TRT for life or what?