HPTA restart help

Discussion in 'Steroid Post Cycle Therapy and ASIH Treatment' started by Athleticgingerpta, May 18, 2019.

  1. What was LH/FSH at, specifically LH, still high or..? Don’t lose hope, that negative depressed thinking will only make it worse. Try getting like a full hormone panel, like thyroid and adrenal, check to see if they’re ok. Not really scientific but since I’ve started eating like 3 (2-4) raw egg yolks I’ve had even more libido, makes sense in a way cause besides all the vitamins and such it’s high in cholesterol which is the raw ingredient for hormones. Also ashwaganda can raise T levels by as much as 17%, which is not a whole lot but that could mean going from 331 to 387.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  2. ScruffMcBuff

    ScruffMcBuff Member

    Currently on self trt now for about a year now since my local docs are clueless. I’ve blasted on and off for a few years not educated enough and did no proper pct. I quit cold turkey off it all and my levels dropped dramatically after 3 months to a total t of 86. I’d like to try a full HPTA restart to see if i can somewhat bounce back at least. Any advice greatly appreciated. I know i’m going to need clomid and hcg, i’m just unsure of duration dosage.
  3. brutus79

    brutus79 Member

    That was no power pct. The hcg was nowhere near enough... and you would be happy at 360 and its 340? Um... stop putting shit in your body. You will never notice 20 tt
  4. Athleticgingerpta

    Athleticgingerpta Junior Member

    I meant I would have been happy with 360 because that would have shown that my levels were slowly improving. What do you mean by “stop putting shit in my body?” If I went on TRT I would be putting shit in my body either way.

    I’m currently doing another power pct with more HCG doses
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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  5. Athleticgingerpta

    Athleticgingerpta Junior Member

    So I've been doing hcg for around 2 1/2 months so far. Started at 2,000 iu hcgs and tapered down to 500. Balls felt big and plump. Meet with the endo and he suggested 1,000iu e3d. Been doing that for ten shots and just got labs.

    391 total T.

    Last summer i did the hcg challenge of 10 shots 1,000iu and was 495. Starting to think I'm fucked. I was 341 natty a few months ago.
  6. Matze

    Matze Junior Member

    @Athleticgingerpta: man i don't want to be rude, but stop doing impulsive things, that makes things worse. I really know whats going on in your head, but believe me, calm down and take a breath. You have to stop going crazy about your t levels, you have to stop focusing at it that much. You have to think logical and stop making decisions based on your fear and bad feelings.

    A little summary: Your t levels are low - not extremely low - but could be better. You tried a ''restart'' with hcg and clomid multiple times in different protocolls. You couldn't raise your t levels permanently. You have libido issues and anxiety.

    First of all you are diagnosed wrong. If any, you have primary hypogonadism - we can see that your hypothalamus detects low t levels and starts producing LH - so the problem is located in your testes. But besides that your t levels after your cycle in 2010 were never low. T levels in the 400's are totally fine. Some people experience strange things when using deca (mainly libido wise), but I cant tell you what really happens there, not enough evidence. But after so much time deca can't be a problem anymore. Keeping that in mind I would bet a lot that your problems (libido/anxiety) are not only related to low t - another possible thing to look into could be a mental problem, triggered from your cycle in 2010. Sometimes i have people thinking they have depression caused by low t, but surprisingly there are some cases where it was exactly the opposite. They had depression/anxiety before and this caused low t! The body is very complex an reacts really strong to permanent stress. Last thing i want to say is: TRT is not the end of the world, it's not even a problem. A problem is to loose both legs in a car crash, a problem is to not have money to buy food for your kids, a problem is to have cancer and die in 1 months. TRT is nothing to even worry about, you have to pin one time a week and have benefits when your older. I am on TRT for a long time and I never had a problem. I was travelling around the world, no illness, I feel healthy and happy. It never stopped me from doing anything. I had the same mind-boggling fear when starting that journey, but on one day I saw a documentation about a disabled young man in a wheelchair sailing around the world, in that moment i knew there is nothing to worry about.

    So, what should you do now?
    If i were you i would eliminate all possible causes, starting with the most likely ones. I would go on trt, so your brain calms down an isn't constantly worrying about your levels. Then i would go to a
    psychologist and explain your story - you have years of consistent worrying behind you, talk to somone. Last but not least - your Libido. Im 99% sure its a psychological problem in your case. I had many people coming to me with almost the same stories like yours, and I experienced almost the same thing myself. I never believed it could be a mental problem, but it was. If your sympathetic nervous system is under tension (it obviously is in your case) - your body is unable use its pathways to generate sexual arousal and drive. Simply said your body and brain just see no reason to activate these pathways when you are in fight and flight mode. Keep that in mind.

    There are some drugs which could help with that:
    - in easy cases sildenafil/cialis (they not only ''generate'' an erection but also release more oxytocin, which helps to relax)
    - in more serious ones mostly anxiolytics like Buspiron/SSRIs/MAOs
    - some people have good results with THC/CBD
    - there are a few supplements which could help, for example tribulus terrestris and/or tongkat ali (they do not help with t levels, only for libido issues)

    Hope i could help you a bit, if you have questions feel free to ask. And remember, you will be fine. If you don't give up, there is no other possibility. If you keep going, u will suceed.

    All the best

    // Please excuse the mistakes i made in the text, im from germany and english is not my greatest strength //
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  7. BirdieNumNum

    BirdieNumNum Member

    He has primary hypogonadism to some degree, as did I.
  8. Matze

    Matze Junior Member

    Yes, this is correct.
  9. BirdieNumNum

    BirdieNumNum Member

    @Matze some great input there, but I think OP really does want his natural T production back. Now he is facing what can only be described as hell as rectifying that issue is very difficult IME.
    OP had what I would describe as a very mild cycle, although everyone is different. I'm extremely optimistic that he can recover and/or improve his T production.
  10. Matze

    Matze Junior Member

    @Jay Monks i understand that. But based on my experience that is very unlikely. He is trying that for the last 4 years after the TRT attempt - the cycle was 9 years ago. Maybe you can get around 400 - i can't tell if thats enough for your body because we have no blood test from before the cycle. If trt is not an option, there is one other route to consider - especially working in younger patients.

    Try microdosing clomid if you dont have mental problems with it: 12,5mg or 6,25mg ED

    I have seen very good results in some patients - others have much problems with the side effect. So even if you are primary to some degree, you have a chance for improvement with that.
  11. BirdieNumNum

    BirdieNumNum Member

    @Matze my ridiculous cycle began ten years ago and finished when i was 21. My levels were <400 for a very long time, years. And now they are >700.
    It can be done.
  12. Matze

    Matze Junior Member

    Im very happy for you :) sometimes it works - have seen it myself very rarely. But in most cases it doesn't after such a long time. I think its good to be realistic.

    But lets not forget, that there are probably more things to look at than low test. And now all the best for you, pm me if you want to know anything. See you!
    BirdieNumNum likes this.
  13. BirdieNumNum

    BirdieNumNum Member

    I really do struggle to accept that I am just one of the "lucky ones". I think OP can achieve it if he is willing to endure.
    Thanks @Matze
    Matze likes this.
  14. Hey Jay,

    Post a link to your recovery log for the OP.

    If I remember correctly, you went through fucking hell to get back to solid T levels.

    so yeah, you're right... it can be done.
    If you someone obviously stays on track
  15. BirdieNumNum

    BirdieNumNum Member

    Yo man, that is correct.
    There's no need, I have spoken to OP and he has seen my log.
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  16. Athleticgingerpta

    Athleticgingerpta Junior Member

    This Matze guy thinks I need to be on four different types of drugs lol. And see a therapist. Sometimes the best way to get from point A to B is a straight line. I’d be fine with test in the 400s. Naturally. My issues are clearly just due to low test levels. This is apparent to me since my symptoms disappear within a week when I do a test injection.

    Currently doing 1500iu hcg. I’ll be getting labs in a week or so.
    BirdieNumNum likes this.
  17. Matze

    Matze Junior Member

    I do not think you really have read my text - or there was a misunderstanding (maybe my English is not good enough either). Of course, your symptoms related to your mood are caused by your low testosterone levels. Therefore, my recommendation was TRT, since you have been trying for over 4 years with different protocols to get your testosterone levels to a normal level. Based on my experience, it is quite unlikely to increase your testosterone levels consistently and permanently after such a long time (not impossible, but very unlikely - Jay Monks is one of the winners I think ;)).

    My recommendation regarding psychotherapy was exclusively related to your libido problems - which obviously are not related to your testosterone levels (as the issues were also present during your TRT attempt). In no case did I recommend you to take several medications at the same time, I just wanted to give you an overview of the different options that are used in modern medicine at the moment. If possible it's always the best to not take any drugs - most of them can have bad side effects (but in some cases it's necessary for a limited period of time). The only exception is sildenafil maybe - there is not much to worry about if dosed properly. Maybe there was a misunderstanding regarding the medication - English is not my native language.

    Finally, I want to tell you that I was a bit disappointed with your rough answer, I'm working in this area for a very long time and therefore tried to help you with a few informations (and it's not like I have tons of free time). I shared a few things that could be very interesting to you, but you probably knew all this before. That's why this will be my last post in your topic. Nevertheless, I wish you all the best and that you feel better soon.
  18. BirdieNumNum

    BirdieNumNum Member

    I knew myself that I had little chance, to begin with anyway. But after some time on hcg I realised that that was not the case. I felt fucking crap at the beginning and it slowly improved. I chose not to accept my shitty levels and it paid off. Who's telling me I was wrong now?


    Hcg+ Time = results.
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  19. Athleticgingerpta

    Athleticgingerpta Junior Member

    After four months of hcg I got labs done. At the time I was doing 1,000iu eod. Labs were:

    Total T: 419
    Sensitive e2: 12
    SHBG: 21
    Free T: 77 (bottom range number 55).

    Switched to clomid for a month now. Been on 12.5mg ed and just got a total testosterone lab done where I'm 710. Literally the same exact number from last november. No improvement in any symptoms besides brain fog and fatigue. I had no improvement in symptoms on hcg nor on clomid. No morning wood, no libido (sexual urge once a month at best if that).
    ScruffMcBuff likes this.
  20. master.on

    master.on Member

    1000 iu hcg EOD is way too much
    500 IU per week (split as much as you can) is fine.

    What's the E2 normal range? 12 looks too low for me.

    You can get some Proviron. For most men it doesn't shut you down much/at all so it shouldn't hinder recovery noticeably and it does help you feel much better.
    ScruffMcBuff likes this.