HPTA restart help

[The Terminator]

After four months of HCG I got labs done. At the time I was doing 1,000iu eod. Labs were:

Total T: 419
Sensitive e2: 12
SHBG: 21
Free T: 77 (bottom range number 55).

Switched to clomid for a month now. Been on 12.5mg ed and just got a total testosterone lab done where I'm 710. Literally the same exact number from last november. No improvement in any symptoms besides brain fog and fatigue. I had no improvement in symptoms on hcg nor on clomid. No morning wood, no libido (sexual urge once a month at best if that).

Well that’s a great sign, going form ~300 to 419 to 710. Libido isn’t really the best indicator of recovery/hormone levels. Of course that E level might be too low for you, I know it would be for me. I remember once my T was >2600 but my E was 13 and not only was my libido low but the thought of sex was kinda gross. Not sure if you’re using an AI, I mean lower E during pct can be beneficial but you don’t want to go to low.

1000 iu hcg EOD is way too much
500 IU per week (split as much as you can) is fine.

What's the E2 normal range? 12 looks too low for me.

You can get some Proviron. For most men it doesn't shut you down much/at all so it shouldn't hinder recovery noticeably and it does help you feel much better.

500iu/wk isn’t likely to be effective on a person heavily suppressed, it’s likely not enough for secondary/tertiary hypo hrt. It’s good for those on trt that want to maintain partial testicular function. 250iu 3x/wk is probably the lowest you could go for decent T.

 

[Sworder]

In the TRT industry, e2 of 20 is considered the sweet-spot. Numbers aren't as relevant as symptoms are though.

Also, if a person's testes have been shut down for a longer period of time then you want to use larger doses such as 1k EOD vs 500iU E3D.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

Well that’s a great sign, going form ~300 to 419 to 710.

Senoir ginge has explained he reached this level in the past and became unstuck.

Libido isn’t really the best indicator of recovery/hormone levels.

Correct.

Also, if a person's testes have been shut down for a longer period of time then you want to use larger doses such as 1k EOD vs 500iU E3D.

Yep. Anything from 500 up to 1000iu of hcg did absolutely fucking nothing for me when I was ill NUTTIN.

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

I guess I need to check my LH then. I'm assuming it is probably way over the normal limit and that's why I have normal total testosterone readings right now. If it is up in the upper teens then I'm tempted to just say F it and start TRT.

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

Got labs done yesterday and wanted to compare them to the ones I had in May when I was off pct meds for five months.

Yesterday's labs after one month of clomid at 12.5mg ed (and four months of high ish dose of hcg prior to that).

Total Test: 639 (264-916)
Estradiol 30 (7.6-42.6)
LH 9.4 (1.7-8.6) High
FSH 6.0 (1.5-12.4)

Labs I had done back in May when I was off everything for five months:

Total test: 341 (264-916)
Estradiol: 19.8 (7.6-42.6)
LH 11.8 (1.7-8.6) High
FSH 6.0 (1.5-12.4)

So does this mean my testes are more sensitive to LH? So in five months when my LH stays high since I'm technically primary hypo my total test will be mid-range? I was hoping this last set of labs would have given me a definite answer on if I needed to start TRT or not. I guess it just gave me more questions than answers.

What do you guys think?

 

[Sworder]

What do you guys think?

Your labs look great! What is your problem? Overthinking?

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

Your labs look great! What is your problem? Overthinking?

I've had low test for a long time so skeptical of these results. Any advice on the LH?

I really want to quit the clomid but I do have months of it. Should I quit and see if it holds or continue at 6.25mg ed?

 

[Sworder]

I've had low test for a long time so skeptical of these results. Any advice on the LH?

I really want to quit the clomid but I do have months of it. Should I quit and see if it holds or continue at 6.25mg ed?

Ah okay, so you have a problem with overthinking.

Do this. Stop all PCT drugs, smile, stop asking questions about your labs, they look fine. Smile again. And go about your day!

SERMs can mess with your mind and anxiety. That's what you are doing right now.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

The fact that your leydig is responding better says it all. VERY POSITIVE INDEED.
Inbox bro.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

Ah okay, so you have a problem with overthinking.

Having hypogonadism is very lonely, and it doesnt help when people come out with bullshit remarks like that. Stfu with your shit advice. Ain't nobody got time for that.

 

[Sworder]

Having hypogonadism is very lonely, and it doesnt help when people come out with bullshit remarks like that. Stfu with your shit advice. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Okay so there is a time for joking and there is a time to be serious.

I am not joking at all. He is exhibiting a lot of stress when it his blood work is fine, this indicates to me that he is a little too paranoid and stressed for his own good.
If you want to talk about HPTA recovery and such we can have that discussion. But if I am helping somebody and you are too uneducated to realize it. Learn how to shut your mouth, because your inexperience can hurt people.

I don't think you realize I am joking with you regarding our previous conversation. You are obviously much less intelligent than me to be able to get worked up like you did. Don't ever interfere with me giving advice unless you have something to say about the subject matter. And most the time you will have nothing to add besides anecdotal evidence. This is me telling you there is a place for joking, and a place for giving beneficial advice to people who need it. You are crossing that line and I don't fuck with that. Got it?

 

[BirdieNumNum]

Inexperience? Tell me that is some sort of crappy swedish joke?
I single handedly conquered it myself. With no help from anyone. Just myself and a shit load of Constructivism, qualitative and scientific research.
And what is the result? Success mate.

I completely understand how clomid can affect the mind believe me.

Whilst I totally agree with alot of what you said, you're insinuating that he was overthinking. Bull fucking crap. It's easy for you to say as you are sat there, without the issue.

I suggest you leave it before you struggle once again.

 

[Sworder]

To the OP:
-Discontinue the current drugs you are taking for PCT(clomid) and anything else.
-Stop worrying and thinking about your levels, they will come back. Your stress will create more damage than good.
-Be mindful of anxiety as you get off the drugs.
-Retest bloods in a month or two.

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

Tapered down to 12.5mg clomid eod for two weeks, then 12.5mg e3d for almost two weeks. My last clomid dose was 8 days ago now. I will say I’m experiencing brain fog again and some anxiety. I’m trying to stay strong and tough this thing out but am worried these are bad signs

 

[Sworder]

Tapered down to 12.5mg clomid eod for two weeks, then 12.5mg e3d for almost two weeks. My last clomid dose was 8 days ago now. I will say I’m experiencing brain fog again and some anxiety. I’m trying to stay strong and tough this thing out but am worried these are bad signs

Why the fuck are you tapering a drug with a 5day HL? You are a moron, no wonder you can't fix your own shit.

Good luck

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

Why the fuck are you tapering a drug with a 5day HL? You are a moron, no wonder you can't fix your own shit.

Good luck

Almost everything I could find online said to taper the serm. Not that it matters since some HRT regimens are 12.5 eod so I doubt three and a half weeks of a slightly more spaced out clomid dosage would ruin my efforts. I tapered last year and had a good outcome on the pituitary standpoint.

Don't understand why the name calling and negativity though. Kinda caught me off guard since your previous comments were positive and I have never been rude to you.

 

[Sworder]

Almost everything I could find online said to taper the serm.

HUH? Do you realize that retards outnumber people 100:1? So if you are following generic shit you are following the advise of an idiot...

Also, if you don't listen to my advice you listen to me calling you a moron? Selective hearing at it's finest.

Seriously now. How retarded are you bro? Can you link the information that you read and followed? I am curious to know how stupid people think. I have spent enough time trying to help you. The least you can do is do me one single favor and show me where you read what you followed. I am not even asking you to explain WHY you thought that was a good source of information..


You are taking seriously strong hormones that can ruin people's lives and the "guidebook" you are using are comments from idiots online?

Why are you even here on Meso? I told you exactly what you should do. I understand that you do not know what my knowledge or expertise are. BUT it begs the question, if you are not going to follow the advice you get here why waste people's time? I guess that's where the squeeze is. I gave you fantastic fudging advice and your stupid fudging ass ignores it. You are stupid not because there are things you don't know. You are stupid for not recognizing your own insufficiency and not taking advantage of people whom can help you.

You should have taken that info, DOUBLE CHECKED IT with a proper source and then followed it.
--------------------------------------------------
The negativity comes from YOU and the other idiots here on Meso are actually making me believe that it is a very good thing that AAS are illegal. I am seriously finding more and more support for that viewpoint.
The reason for the "name calling," well I am not really calling you a name. I am stating that you are stupid. I was considering calling you a "fucking idiot" but I don't like cussing however that rolls off my tongue easier. Does it matter to you if I use profanity or state that you are a moron? How about this. You are a beautiful butterfly! Does that help you digest my message better? Anyway all this shit is rhetorical. Don't reply to it please.

 

[Athleticgingerpta]

Your advice was to discontinue the clomid, which I did. I wouldn't pat yourself on the back for the advice, or over-inflate how great it was. It was generic. Tapering of serms is recommended in most of the threads and I've done it myself in the past with success. The point is to avoid estrogen rebound. I also have AI on hand but don't think I need it at this point. Remember, I am PRIMARY. The reason behind this restart was to try and get the leydig cells functioning better. The only person I know who did this on this board with success is Jay Monks.

Yes, steroids are strong compounds but we're discussing clomid. Clomid is rather mild and not "life ruining" unless you get a girl you're not interested in pregnant. Not sure why you feel the need to lecture when you yourself don't come off as being very knowledgeable on ASIH.

There hasn't been many studies performed on ASIH individuals although I know Dr. Scally did one and there was a foreign doc who adminstered HCG for a 2 year period with great success. I don't think you'll find research saying it's detrimental to taper a serm either. But if you do, please share it with me so I can help my future patients as I will be prescribing medicine myself in about two years time and I am always trying to learn more.

 

[Sworder]

Your advice was to discontinue the clomid, which I did. I wouldn't pat yourself on the back for the advice, or over-inflate how great it was. It was generic. Tapering of serms is recommended in most of the threads and I've done it myself in the past with success. The point is to avoid estrogen rebound. I also have AI on hand but don't think I need it at this point. Remember, I am PRIMARY. The reason behind this restart was to try and get the leydig cells functioning better. The only person I know who did this on this board with success is Jay Monks.

Yes, steroids are strong compounds but we're discussing clomid. Clomid is rather mild and not "life ruining" unless you get a girl you're not interested in pregnant. Not sure why you feel the need to lecture when you yourself don't come off as being very knowledgeable on ASIH.

There hasn't been many studies performed on ASIH individuals although I know Dr. Scally did one and there was a foreign doc who adminstered HCG for a 2 year period with great success. I don't think you'll find research saying it's detrimental to taper a serm either. But if you do, please share it with me so I can help my future patients as I will be prescribing medicine myself in about two years time and I am always trying to learn more.

Good luck

 

[BirdieNumNum]

The reason behind this restart was to try and get the leydig cells functioning better. The only person I know who did this on this board with success is Jay Monks.

And yet people have the audacity to say I am inexperienced, when the only thing they have ever experienced in this regard is frustration by finding very little on the internet about it. Another member on here stated there was other accounts out there regarding this, but it's funny, I have never stumbled across them. I am way beyond arguing with anyone about it at this point unless they have done what I have. Which means I will not be arguing with anyone.

Drop me a messege when you get your results @Athleticgingerpta I will recieve an email so I will see it.

Have a great Christmas guys.