I don't want to get off

[Logan44551]

Is it the gear that causes this to occur, if so, how? I've never heard of this. I know myostatin inhibits growth, but I thought it was a genetic thing and a response to all attempts to grow.

My understanding from what I've read on here is myostatin levels start to rise at around the 8 week mark. That's why people recommend adding an oral towards the end of a cycle, and why front loading is not a great idea. After those levels rise, you have to increase dose of add another compound, but eventually you'll reach a point of diminishing returns. It's also super bad for you to stay on cycle year round, regardless of blood work your putting a ton of strain on your body.
I tagged you in another old thread we're it's talked about some more

 

[Rido]

Point is, since I am on TRT for life, I see no reason why to stop, even if it is to return to "normal" levels of whatever blood markers. What is the point really, if I'm just gonna blast again in another month; even if I took two or three months off, how does that help? It's not like a month or so will undo all the damage being done to my organs, if any. And like I said, my bloods come back perfect, so where is this damage that supposed to be harming me? This makes me think pros are taking 100x more than we do, as they are literally walking around with high blood pressure for years, and having shitty bloodwork the whole time.

Why couldn't I just drop all gear and return to Cyp only, but at 600mg to maintain what I built? There was a study showing that men taking 600mg had literally no negative sides at all. In fact, Milos runs 500mg for 20+ years as his "TRT" based on this very study. I just feel that gaining size, then going to TRT for a month just doesn't make any sense; if the drugs are fucking your bloodwork up badly, you shouldn't be taking those drugs at all, and you should find drugs that don't.

What study of 600mg though? The bhasin study? On 18-35 year olds?


Basing it off of one man isn't a good idea either. N=1 is a shit study.

Idk man, seems like a bad idea overall. You do you but you talk about blasting and cruising is bad but it seems like you wanna permablast?

 

[HB_22]

Here are my bloods with 1g Deca, but I did add Drol for 19 days so that my have screwed things up worse...so several markers are off, but I stopped at three months.

I have a lot of experience with high dose NPP and Deca and that HDL of 19 is very likely from the Sdrol. There is no way that nandrolone crushes hdl so much.

 

[ar7353]

Blood work is NOT the only metric of your health man. Not to mention, those markers are indicators of abnormal functioning. By the time you get your blood work done (assuming you actually get it regularly) and notice some markers are off, you could be behind the curve on finding out what’s going on underneath the hood. By then, irreparable damage could be done. You’re already saying things like “only a few things are off and not even by that much”. That’s a slippery slope.

I COMPLETELY understand the sentiment of wanting to stay on all the time. I understand wanting to always utilize shit that makes you superhuman (or more accurately put, supraphysiologic), but as with basically ANYTHING, moderation is key. The reason blood markers are off at all is because gear is stressing your body, and not in a good way. Aside from blood markers, consider your heart in particular.

Like others have said, you do you, but don’t try justifying it by claiming it’s not that as bad as ______ or shit like that. Let’s not kid ourselves. We’re adults and can make these choices, but call it what it is.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Right, I'm not trying to justify anything, but what I'm trying to say is the entire month or two off here and there isn't going to really do much in the end to save anyone's life, IMO. Just as Victor Black said in his video; blast/cruise is the worst model.

Let's take someone who does cocaine literally everyday for a year straight: if he were to take off a month or even two "off" but then went right back at it, I don't think that's going to save his life lol. Get what I mean?

And I what I'm proposing isn't perma-blasting because what I'm saying is, you'd cycle on the most powerful compounds for 12-20 or whatever, then you get off and maintain that with test/primo or whatever is best with your bloods. The only issue with my bloodwork on test/primo was 3 points off lol, and hematocrit was 51%; I would undersatnd your point if I had several things off, and in unsafe ranges, but I didn't. The Deca/drol yes, and probably because of the drol. I think the biggest killer of bodybuilders is high blood pressure, which I never have, not even on a gram of deca. Plaque build up would be due to fucked up cholesterol, which I don't have on test/primo... so what would wreck my insides exactly?

I'm not trying to be combative, but I feel like we just do things because other people said to do them, like blast/cruise, or take a break because androgen receptors downregulate, which is false.

Again, I'm not suggesting to go 1000 test 1000 deca, then jump off and do 500 test, 500 tren and 500 EQ right after; that to me would be perma-blasting in my view; but I think it would be utterly retarded to run a cycle, then try to restart the testes naturally again, blasting clomid, hcg, hmg etc, only to shut it down a few months later running gear again.

 

[ar7353]

Right, I'm not trying to justify anything, but what I'm trying to say is the entire month or two off here and there isn't going to really do much in the end to save anyone's life, IMO. Just as Victor Black said in his video; blast/cruise is the worst model.

Let's take someone who does cocaine literally everyday for a year straight: if he were to take off a month or even two "off" but then went right back at it, I don't think that's going to save his life lol. Get what I mean?

And I what I'm proposing isn't perma-blasting because what I'm saying is, you'd cycle on the most powerful compounds for 12-20 or whatever, then you get off and maintain that with test/primo or whatever is best with your bloods. The only issue with my bloodwork on test/primo was 3 points off lol, and hematocrit was 51%; I would undersatnd your point if I had several things off, and in unsafe ranges, but I didn't. The Deca/drol yes, and probably because of the drol. I think the biggest killer of bodybuilders is high blood pressure, which I never have, not even on a gram of deca. Plaque build up would be due to fucked up cholesterol, which I don't have on test/primo... so what would wreck my insides exactly?

I'm not trying to be combative, but I feel like we just do things because other people said to do them, like blast/cruise, or take a break because androgen receptors downregulate, which is false.

Again, I'm not suggesting to go 1000 test 1000 deca, then jump off and do 500 test, 500 tren and 500 EQ right after; that to me would be perma-blasting in my view; but I think it would be utterly retarded to run a cycle, then try to restart the testes naturally again, blasting clomid, hcg, hmg etc, only to shut it down a few months later running gear again.

On what I’m assuming was your test/primo bloods, your hematocrit is high, which puts you at an increased risk of stroke. Your HDL, the one that reduces your plaque buildup, is low. In the long run, these things contribute to problems, especially if that’s what they are on a cruise (for lack of better words). Again, to reemphasize, the blood work is not the whole story. Maybe consider an annual or semi annual EKG, echocardiogram, and stress test to be sure everything looks good with the heart.

I would agree that a lot of the “rules” out there don’t make sense and it’s hard to say where they come from. Cycling is about your testes and natural production, yeah, but it’s also about all the other stuff. Stuff like the liver value you had elevated on a cruise as well. If you’re gonna cruise, which I don’t disagree with at all, then cruise on shit that keeps everything else in normal range. Otherwise you’re never really recovering from a blast.

To compare to your coke example, you can’t do lots of coke for a year, then just do a little coke and call it healthy. At the end of the day, what’s going to be healthy? We may not like the answer as it related to gear, but it’s still the truth.

 

[Rido]

Right, I'm not trying to justify anything, but what I'm trying to say is the entire month or two off here and there isn't going to really do much in the end to save anyone's life, IMO. Just as Victor Black said in his video; blast/cruise is the worst model.

Let's take someone who does cocaine literally everyday for a year straight: if he were to take off a month or even two "off" but then went right back at it, I don't think that's going to save his life lol. Get what I mean?

And I what I'm proposing isn't perma-blasting because what I'm saying is, you'd cycle on the most powerful compounds for 12-20 or whatever, then you get off and maintain that with test/primo or whatever is best with your bloods. The only issue with my bloodwork on test/primo was 3 points off lol, and hematocrit was 51%; I would undersatnd your point if I had several things off, and in unsafe ranges, but I didn't. The Deca/drol yes, and probably because of the drol. I think the biggest killer of bodybuilders is high blood pressure, which I never have, not even on a gram of deca. Plaque build up would be due to fucked up cholesterol, which I don't have on test/primo... so what would wreck my insides exactly?

I'm not trying to be combative, but I feel like we just do things because other people said to do them, like blast/cruise, or take a break because androgen receptors downregulate, which is false.

Again, I'm not suggesting to go 1000 test 1000 deca, then jump off and do 500 test, 500 tren and 500 EQ right after; that to me would be perma-blasting in my view; but I think it would be utterly retarded to run a cycle, then try to restart the testes naturally again, blasting clomid, hcg, hmg etc, only to shut it down a few months later running gear again.

Are you sure its blood pressure or is it LVH?

do you ever get an echo to check ejection fraction?

so I am lost with what your ideal model is..
only reason is cause you are talking about someone who is completely fine at 500mg of test. So should we do 500 mg of test too?
Blast and then go to TRT?

 

[Deleted member 123722]

On what I’m assuming was your test/primo bloods, your hematocrit is high, which puts you at an increased risk of stroke. Your HDL, the one that reduces your plaque buildup, is low. In the long run, these things contribute to problems, especially if that’s what they are on a cruise (for lack of better words). Again, to reemphasize, the blood work is not the whole story. Maybe consider an annual or semi annual EKG, echocardiogram, and stress test to be sure everything looks good with the heart.

I would agree that a lot of the “rules” out there don’t make sense and it’s hard to say where they come from. Cycling is about your testes and natural production, yeah, but it’s also about all the other stuff. Stuff like the liver value you had elevated on a cruise as well. If you’re gonna cruise, which I don’t disagree with at all, then cruise on shit that keeps everything else in normal range. Otherwise you’re never really recovering from a blast.

To compare to your coke example, you can’t do lots of coke for a year, then just do a little coke and call it healthy. At the end of the day, what’s going to be healthy? We may not like the answer as it related to gear, but it’s still the truth.

Yes, the top test was the 400 cyp/ 600 primo. It shows my LDL was 37 when normal range is 40>, so those three points are that problematic? Same with hematocrit at 51% when 38-50 is normal? The AST is 12 points higher than normal range, however, but wouldn't that be elevated anyway because of the gear plus training?

Are you sure its blood pressure or is it LVH?

do you ever get an echo to check ejection fraction?

so I am lost with what your ideal model is..
only reason is cause you are talking about someone who is completely fine at 500mg of test. So should we do 500 mg of test too?
Blast and then go to TRT?

My ECG was perfect last time I got it, and that was during my deca blast, if I recall correctly, because someone told me to check my heart then.

Left ventricular hypertrophy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Idk what my ideal model is, that's why I'm actually watching Victor Black explain what he is all about right now, as he claims he is putting forward safer modes of use, that will give 80% of the results at half the risk; that I think would be great for us hobbyists who aren't making money off this lifestyle.

But what I've concluded on my own is to only use the safest gear and only take the more harmful ones in "cycles."

This is what I"m watching right now
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2rqzwhNwn8&ab_channel=VictorBlack

 

[Rido]

My ECG was perfect last time I got it, and that was during my deca blast, if I recall correctly, because someone told me to check my heart then.

Left ventricular hypertrophy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Idk what my ideal model is, that's why I'm actually watching Victor Black explain what he is all about right now, as he claims he is putting forward safer modes of use, that will give 80% of the results at half the risk; that I think would be great for us hobbyists who aren't making money off this lifestyle.

But what I've concluded on my own is to only use the safest gear and only take the more harmful ones in "cycles."

you don't have a full understanding of all of the health markers. Ecg won't show LVH or ejection fraction .

Ecg is not an echo

 

[Deleted member 123722]

you don't have a full understanding of all of the health markers. Ecg won't show LVH or ejection fraction .

Ecg is not an echo

EKG is what I got, where they put all those sensors on you chest and body.

 

[Rido]

EKG is what I got, where they put all those sensors on you chest and body.

I know what An EKG is. But an echo will show an image of your heart, any enlargement, bad valves, blockages, or poor ejection fraction. Meaning poor pumping power.

Echo is overall a much bigger deal...

 

[ar7353]

Yes, the top test was the 400 cyp/ 600 primo. It shows my LDL was 37 when normal range is 40>, so those three points are that problematic? Same with hematocrit at 51% when 38-50 is normal? The AST is 12 points higher than normal range, however, but wouldn't that be elevated anyway because of the gear plus training?

My ECG was perfect last time I got it, and that was during my deca blast, if I recall correctly, because someone told me to check my heart then.

Left ventricular hypertrophy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Idk what my ideal model is, that's why I'm actually watching Victor Black explain what he is all about right now, as he claims he is putting forward safer modes of use, that will give 80% of the results at half the risk; that I think would be great for us hobbyists who aren't making money off this lifestyle.

But what I've concluded on my own is to only use the safest gear and only take the more harmful ones in "cycles."

This is what I"m watching right now
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2rqzwhNwn8&ab_channel=VictorBlack

I feel like an extensive write up about blood markers would make a great sticky thread, written by someone smarter than me. I’ll explain as best I can though.

If your HDL is less than 40, it becomes a negative risk factor. Ideally you want it to be 60. That’s generally considered optimal. To compare it to total testosterone for example, just because 300 is in range doesn’t mean it’s optimal.

For hematocrit, no 51% probably isn’t a big deal and could change with hydration status, but in general, a high hematocrit means thicker blood. Thicker blood means the heart works harder to pump (could contribute to LVH), and it also makes you more prone to clots (and subsequently stroke). Athletes will generally have a higher hematocrit than general population anyways, but unless you’re big into cardio, it’s likely from the gear.

The liver values are a bit outside my level of knowledge, but they can indicate hepatic strain. What I do know is that the liver is one of our most important organs (yes they’re all important obviously) with a HUGE range of functions. I’d try to make adjustments to your gear or add in some supplements to keep it happy.

Good on you for getting the EKG. I highly recommend the echo as well as that’s what will tell you about LVH and other morphological changes that could be happening. Just got one done myself last month.

 

[Maximus014]

I will admit that logically I should get off soon, go back to a "TRT" dose, but I won't; my TRT dose is 200mg of cyp, which isn't even TRT, and puts me over 1000.

I've been on for a while now; taking only a month or so between cycles, since literally last year, when I did my 1 gram of Deca only for 12 weeks; after that, I went like few weeks, then started Test/Tren E/Primo. 15 weeks into that, I dropped the Tren E, and switched to Anavar 50mg ed. I'm currently still on the Test/Primo/Var since my cutting cycle started in Feb!

I've been taking 5iu of GH ED since last year, and I recently bumped it up to 10ius about 20 days ago.

I don't care to take bloods, because it wouldn't stop me anyway, and I only do so when its my time to go to get a yearly check up. And when I did take my bloods, they weren't bad at all, few things like AST and Hemocrit 51% elevated but nothing crazy. In fact, a year prior, I ran a low-dose of Cyp 200 / Tren E 200 for six months straight, and I only took a month off, and my bloods were normal after. My EKG and everything was literally perfect.

I don't get high blood pressure from any drug, while on; I don't feel like shit; I don't get any of the sides most people complain about, even from Tren. I feel like I'm one of those people who are very side-effect resistant. The only drug that I got noticeable shit from was anadrol, which gave me acid reflux that was annoying. I stopped that 17 days in because it was not allowing me to eat the calories I needed to bulk.

Point is, since I am on TRT for life, I see no reason why to stop, even if it is to return to "normal" levels of whatever blood markers. What is the point really, if I'm just gonna blast again in another month; even if I took two or three months off, how does that help? It's not like a month or so will undo all the damage being done to my organs, if any. And like I said, my bloods come back perfect, so where is this damage that supposed to be harming me? This makes me think pros are taking 100x more than we do, as they are literally walking around with high blood pressure for years, and having shitty bloodwork the whole time.

Why couldn't I just drop all gear and return to Cyp only, but at 600mg to maintain what I built? There was a study showing that men taking 600mg had literally no negative sides at all. In fact, Milos runs 500mg for 20+ years as his "TRT" based on this very study. I just feel that gaining size, then going to TRT for a month just doesn't make any sense; if the drugs are fucking your bloodwork up badly, you shouldn't be taking those drugs at all, and you should find drugs that don't.

Am I addicted to these drugs or am I just not seeing the point? There is not one pro who has taken off gear and retained anything he's built; not one. All these guys coming out like Seth Feroce or Lee Preist claiming they are on TRT only are full of shit: Look at Dorian, Arnold, Haney, Ronnie, and everyone else running TRT, how much they shrunk. So why would we want to blast and cruise, to gain and shrink, on and off? Isn't that retarded or what? Why not just stay on until you're done taking them all together?

I just watched one of ferroces videos that he stated he was doing 300mg a few times a week as maintenance

I have no plan on backing off jntil.i hit my goal, just switching compounds and monitoring bloodwork, imo monitoring your bloods is the safe way of doing it if not backing off, but you already stayed you won't either way so that's a personal.choice and one only.you can make

Personally if you can stay healthy at 400mg or 600 test as a cruise then hey all the power to you

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I know what An EKG is. But an echo will show an image of your heart, any enlargement, bad valves, blockages, or poor ejection fraction. Meaning poor pumping power.

Echo is overall a much bigger deal...

Ok. Yea I've never done what you're describing.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

SO I'm watching this Victor Black video, and basically his model is that there are either anabolic pathways, and instead of smashing one, by blasting steroids at high levels, you take as much test as you can handle without any AIs, then add an anabolic like primo/mast, then use gh and other pathways, which all add up, little by little...

because what is taught on forums is this:

start with test...take as much as you can; then add more steroids, then add more steroids, get to grams of steroids, then add GH, max out on GH, then add insulin...he is saying there is no logical reason to wait to take the safer things like GH at lower dosages and tap into the other anabolic pathways.

I highly recommend the video I'm watching. I may even post it as its own thread.

 

[Maximus014]

SO I'm watching this Victor Black video, and basically his model is that there are either anabolic pathways, and instead of smashing one, by blasting steroids at high levels, you take as much test as you can handle without any AIs, then add an anabolic like primo/mast, then use gh and other pathways, which all add up, little by little...

because what is taught on forums is this:

start with test...take as much as you can; then add more steroids, then add more steroids, get to grams of steroids, then add GH, max out on GH, then add insulin...he is saying there is no logical reason to wait to take the safer things like GH at lower dosages and tap into the other anabolic pathways.

I highly recommend the video I'm watching. I may even post it as its own thread.

I'm.interested in seeing this, post that shit up, I guess I could stop being a la,y fuck and just look it up hahaha

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I just watched one of ferroces videos that he stated he was doing 300mg a few times a week as maintenance

I have no plan on backing off jntil.i hit my goal, just switching compounds and monitoring bloodwork, imo monitoring your bloods is the safe way of doing it if not backing off, but you already stayed you won't either way so that's a personal.choice and one only.you can make

Personally if you can stay healthy at 400mg or 600 test as a cruise then hey all the power to you

yea so he's not on TRT lol.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2rqzwhNwn8&ab_channel=VictorBlack

 

[Rido]

yea so he's not on TRT lol.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2rqzwhNwn8&ab_channel=VictorBlack

I identify as a man with a natural test of 1800. That is my TRT.

 

[hudson98]

victor black sells content his goal is to reinvent the wheel and make $ by convincing people to pay for his content. if he just says blast and cruise that makes him no profit.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

victor black sells content his goal is to reinvent the wheel and make $ by convincing people to pay for his content. if he just says blast and cruise that makes him no profit.

From what I'm gathering so far, that's not what he seems to be doing.