Joints/Tendons/Bone

[emcomfu]

When you start using orals or Tren in higher doses. Probably not anytime soon for yourself.

 

[taco33150]

I don't think I'll be doing tren at all . My next cycle I'll add anavar

 

[SolidRain]

Any studies for Anavar? As I remember there were a number of studies demonstrating collagen I and III. Clearly EQ and Deca are not helpful for tendon repair. Any reason Anavar should be different?

 

[miamifunk]

This is a great thread. Dealing with multiple injuries. Failed Laterjet on left shoulder, low bone density and low T (natty) for a while, currently on TRT and have developed serious bi lateral golfers elbow. Have been trying to look into the success rate of peps/aas/hgh in healing for some time. Some Doctors are too quick for invasive surgery, we have to educate ourselves.

 

[miamifunk]

Need some help guys. I'm experiencing tendinitis in my right elbow. I strained it playing basketball which I haven't played in years. The week after I did back and bi workout. And man I was in pain for a couple days after that. It's been effecting me work. And have taken a full week off from the gym feels much better. But I can still feel it and if I train hard or move it wrong at work I feel it will be back again. Did back and biceps the other day back portion was fine. But couldn't do bb curls. Or hammer curls really felt it in the elbow. Was planing on starting a cycle in two weeks test deca dbol. Was thinking it be better to wait til it heals more so I don't hurt it pushing weight. Any ideas??

Is the pain on the inner or outside of the elbow

 

[Eman45]

Inner. Fee much better now been on deca for 8 weeks

 

[miamifunk]

Inner. Fee much better now been on deca for 8 weeks

Deca adds lots of fluid to the joints, are you running it with test? I had golfers for like a yr, started getting it bilaterally too. I have done lots of eccentric exercises and rest but I think deca and test are good. Also try tb500 or bpc157 if you need too.

 

[antipcman]

Deca adds lots of fluid to the joints, are you running it with test? I had golfers for like a yr, started getting it bilaterally too. I have done lots of eccentric exercises and rest but I think deca and test are good. Also try tb500 or bpc157 if you need too.

Watch the tb500, the cell replication properties may cause cancer. I stopped using it after a week. If I get a chance, I'll try to locate the medical journals I read. BPC157 is a miracle drug though.

 

[miamifunk]

Watch the tb500, the cell replication properties may cause cancer. I stopped using it after a week. If I get a chance, I'll try to locate the medical journals I read. BPC157 is a miracle drug though.

Wow thanks for that. I wil stick to the bpc mate

 

[antipcman]

Wow thanks for that. I wil stick to the bpc mate

I've had a lot going on but finding the documentation of the cancer risks is on my to do list.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

[Rats] Effect of Sex Steroids On Bone Formation in an Orthopedically Expanded Suture

OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this work was to evaluate the effects of sex steroids on bone formation in response to midpalatal suture expansion by means of histological and immunohistochemical examinations and computed tomography (CT).

MATERIALS AND METHODS: A total of 32 male and 32 female 12-week-old Wistar rats were divided into four groups per gender. Testosterone was administered to the castrated experimental male rats, estrogen to castrated experimental female rats. Saline solution was given subcutaneously to the male and female control, sham, and castration groups during expansion and retention periods, which lasted 7 and 5 days, respectively. The expansion amount was measured with a digital caliper. The density of the new bone in the expansion area was measured via CT.

RESULTS: Histological and CT evaluation revealed that the number of osteoblasts and density of the new bone was higher in male and female experimental groups than in all the other groups. When scores of staining intensity were compared, the experimental groups demonstrated statistically significant greater immunoreactivity in the osteoblasts compared to castrated-only groups. Bone density was higher in the female experimental group than in the others, and higher in the male experimental group than in the others. Expansion amounts in the castrated groups were higher than in the others (p < 0.05).

CONCLUSION: Raising the levels of sex steroids in rats revealed positive effects on bone formation in the midpalatal suture in response to expansion. Increased sex steroid levels can reduce the time needed for retention.

Birlik M, Babacan H, Cevit R, Gurler B. Effect of sex steroids on bone formation in an orthopedically expanded suture in rats : An immunohistochemical and computed tomography study. J Orofac Orthop. Effect of sex steroids on bone formation in an orthopedically expanded suture in rats - Online First - Springer

 

[miamifunk]

Great article @MichaelMD

 

[Bob Dole]

Do any UGL's sell sex steroids? lol

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Fenelon C, Dalton DMA-Ohoo, Galbraith JG, Masterson EL. Synchronous quadriceps tendon rupture and unilateral ACL tear in a weightlifter, associated with anabolic steroid use. BMJ Case Rep. http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2016/bcr-2015-214310.abstract

Synchronous quadriceps tendon rupture is rare. A 29-year-old man, an amateur weight lifter, taking androgenic-anabolic steroids (AAS), developed sudden onset bilateral pain and swelling of his anterior thighs when attempting to squat 280 kg (620 lb). Examination revealed gross swelling superior to the patella and palpable gaps in both quadriceps tendons. He underwent successful operative repair. MRI revealed a partial tear of the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) of the right knee. This was not reconstructed. Only a few case reports of the association between AAS and quadriceps rupture exist in the literature, with none to the best of our knowledge in the past 10 years. ACL rupture coexisting is very rare, with only two reported cases.

 

[Dr JIM]

Looking at this case I wonder what other mechanisms were contributory such as; how long was this patient "lifting heavy", his lifting mechanics, the number, type, and/or duration of AAS use, etc.

I mean how often do we see cyclists begin some thread asking which AAS are best to "support collagen" growth?

The confusion seems to arise from a few select in-vitro PETRI DISH studies on FIBROBLASTS, that noted AAS tended to accelerate the synthesis of collagen PRECURSORS.

A few other studies assayed the effects of AAS on the SERUM concentration of once again collagen PRECURSORS.

Guys this type of data should NOT be extrapolated to the synthesis of ARTICULAR collagen (tendons, ligaments, hyaline cartilage, fascia, etc) where blood flow is more likely the rate limiting step.

What is KNOWN, AAS associated SKM hypertrophy occurs at disproportionate pace compared to articular collagen and this effect alone predisposes a select group of cyclist to tendon disruption, IME.

 

[toack]

Re: *EQ increases tendon strength*

Has anyone on here ever ran EQ at 900mg/wk? For 12-13 weeks? How do you guys think that would work out?

EQ@200-600mg/wk for 12week,nice for your body,have a pct will be better

 

[tubesox]

Ummm. Yeh.....

 

[toack]

just my personal experience with it.ran EQ@400mg/wk,test e @300/wk,then take clomid for pct,increase tendon strength and more steady

 

[Thatshitcray]

Ok I found this more then just a little bit confusing.. sooo nor Deca or eq help the body produce the collagen required to heal ligaments (or tendons) BUT the increased blood flow assists with healing them? Did I get that right? If not then somebody please tell me what I can take to heal a knee ligament, I'll probably do a cycle anyway to strengthen the muscles surrounding the area but if I could tailer that cycle for ligament repair it would be ace. Cheers.

 

[Denney Johnson]

i've heard that EQ actually increases tendon strength and can be stacked with test to sort of counter-act the test from impairing the tendons. was planning on including it in my next cycle when winter gets here , wanted to try a lower dose of test (500mg of Enanthate), 600mg of deca/ and a low dose of EQ to keep the tendons strong. the deca is awesome for collagen synthesis and helps with joint pain which is crucial for powerlifting ---- i found an article in my research file ..

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS --
i clicked on a link from here i dont want to advertise but heres the link What is Equipoise? | eHow.com

I just started cycling a few months back. I crushed my hand almost 2yrs ago and a good friend of mine told me that I should run deca and it would help my hand grow back good and strong. He was absolutely right! I got some great gear from him that I can't find anywhere on the Web. He's locked up right now for some other shit so I have been forced to shop around. Which sucks! I am really concerned that my new gear is underdosed. Anyway any feedback on this would be much appreciated pm me if u want to get specific