Karius - ALP / BAL Lists -

I don't really care if my approach was off.. I got bad stuff and I'm entitled to handle it as I see fit.. I didn't just post about our anecdotal experience with the tabs I sent them to a third party (who has done hundreds of these tests) to labmax and he posted pics!! I will post mass spec once it's done as well..

You are welcome to handle it anyway you see fit; just be aware that the approach you use will effect the results you get. Anyone who owns a business that delivers a product is going to get all kinds of complaints over time(some valid and some invalid) and from all sorts of people. How they deal with the complaints usually depends on how they are approached. After skimming through 46 pages it obvious that you truly believe in and are passionate about what you are doing; but it comes across with a lot of anger and I highly doubt you are going to get a result you are satisfied with.
 
You are welcome to handle it anyway you see fit; just be aware that the approach you use will effect the results you get. Anyone who owns a business that delivers a product is going to get all kinds of complaints over time(some valid and some invalid) and from all sorts of people. How they deal with the complaints usually depends on how they are approached. After skimming through 46 pages it obvious that you truly believe in and are passionate about what you are doing; but it comes across with a lot of anger and I highly doubt you are going to get a result you are satisfied with.

I know.. I'm a chronic malcontent.. I may never get what I want in the internet steroids trade which is a consistently good product! No questions asked!!

How I deal with complaints in business depends, well, they're legitimate or they're not.. I've provided enough evidence at this stage to show mine are..
 
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Also, he's been branching out to OLM and Meso with his posts here.. Doesn't seem too private or selective IMO..

He has a new line he is promoting and is branching out to get it established; nothing wrong with that. In the many years that he has been around he has been private more than not.
 
You are welcome to handle it anyway you see fit; just be aware that the approach you use will effect the results you get. Anyone who owns a business that delivers a product is going to get all kinds of complaints over time(some valid and some invalid) and from all sorts of people. How they deal with the complaints usually depends on how they are approached. After skimming through 46 pages it obvious that you truly believe in and are passionate about what you are doing; but it comes across with a lot of anger and I highly doubt you are going to get a result you are satisfied with.


Muscle96, although I don't necessarily agree with everything you've said, your comments on this issue have been balanced and fair, and more importantly, respectful. Had IM and Granite taken the same approach as you, I'm positive 99% of the animosity we've seen over the past week would have been avoided. Hopefully, IM and GM will take note and learn from your example.

Regards
CBS
 
You are correct.. Ecstasydata stopped doing AAS tests as of 7/25 or maybe they stopped taking samples then.. There was a recent thread here about it..

Either way it doesn't matter, ENOUGH evidence has been posted it was offered that all the shit would be sent back to him.. The onus is on Karius at this point..

I'm really fucking disappointed with your post in the AB thread IM.. Really disappointed.
Hey brother johnnyBALLZ can you get the link for iM post at the other board? Just would like to see what he had to say.
 
I know.. I'm a chronic malcontent.. I may never get what I want in the internet steroids trade which is a consistently good product! No questions asked!!

How I deal with complaints in business depends, well, they're legitimate or they're not.. I've provided enough evidence at this stage to show mine are..

I am not disputing your evidence as I was one of the originals using the labmax kit and still believe in it. I also agree that it would be great to find a consistently good product. However realistically I have learned in life that things are always changing and nothing is ever consistent(other than things always being inconsistent). I am one of those people that in real life I gladly pay more for quality and consistency and am very anal and perfectionistic about everything I use. However, no matter how hard you try, life just doesn't work that way and whether its intentional or unintentional, shit always happens. So, what I am trying to say is that while we would all love to have sources that put out high quality products on a consistent basis that you can always rely on; that just isn't a realistic expectation and even the best are going to have problems at one time or another. That doesn't make them a bad or dishonest source; its just means their human. People seem to have already cast judement on K and he was beheaded before he was even given a chance to deal with this issue. Just saying that by putting him in that situation from the get go probably wasn't the best way to get constructive results.
 
I am not disputing your evidence as I was one of the originals using the labmax kit and still believe in it. I also agree that it would be great to find a consistently good product. However realistically I have learned in life that things are always changing and nothing is ever consistent(other than things always being inconsistent). I am one of those people that in real life I gladly pay more for quality and consistency and am very anal and perfectionistic about everything I use. However, no matter how hard you try, life just doesn't work that way and whether its intentional or unintentional, shit always happens. So, what I am trying to say is that while we would all love to have sources that put out high quality products on a consistent basis that you can always rely on; that just isn't a realistic expectation and even the best are going to have problems at one time or another. That doesn't make them a bad or dishonest source; its just means their human. People seem to have already cast judement on K and he was beheaded before he was even given a chance to deal with this issue. Just saying that by putting him in that situation from the get go probably wasn't the best way to get constructive results.


I know brother, I know.. I'm just going to pay the money for a legit clinic a little south of here.. Real pharm test, anadrol, var, and deca..

Again though, I don't care about a more "constructive result" at this point, wouldn't even trust it.. At least now this is out there..
 
Muscle I really like the method you take to show the other side of the argument. Debate is welcome and needed but in this case here two schills were sent here and to come here and bash people here was asking for it. I care less for the two fools as you could tell by their post their intent was to bait and get the discussion off topic.





I am not disputing your evidence as I was one of the originals using the labmax kit and still believe in it. I also agree that it would be great to find a consistently good product. However realistically I have learned in life that things are always changing and nothing is ever consistent(other than things always being inconsistent). I am one of those people that in real life I gladly pay more for quality and consistency and am very anal and perfectionistic about everything I use. However, no matter how hard you try, life just doesn't work that way and whether its intentional or unintentional, shit always happens. So, what I am trying to say is that while we would all love to have sources that put out high quality products on a consistent basis that you can always rely on; that just isn't a realistic expectation and even the best are going to have problems at one time or another. That doesn't make them a bad or dishonest source; its just means their human. People seem to have already cast judement on K and he was beheaded before he was even given a chance to deal with this issue. Just saying that by putting him in that situation from the get go probably wasn't the best way to get constructive results.
 
I am not disputing your evidence as I was one of the originals using the labmax kit and still believe in it. I also agree that it would be great to find a consistently good product. However realistically I have learned in life that things are always changing and nothing is ever consistent(other than things always being inconsistent). I am one of those people that in real life I gladly pay more for quality and consistency and am very anal and perfectionistic about everything I use. However, no matter how hard you try, life just doesn't work that way and whether its intentional or unintentional, shit always happens. So, what I am trying to say is that while we would all love to have sources that put out high quality products on a consistent basis that you can always rely on; that just isn't a realistic expectation and even the best are going to have problems at one time or another. That doesn't make them a bad or dishonest source; its just means their human. People seem to have already cast judement on K and he was beheaded before he was even given a chance to deal with this issue. Just saying that by putting him in that situation from the get go probably wasn't the best way to get constructive results.
It's nice to see mature discussions about these issues. I don't think it's realistic to expect legal, regulated market-type quality control in an illicit unregulated black market. By definition, the black market will generally have significantly lower quality products. But just because the bar is set low on quality control doesn't mean that the truth about the products should not be readily available to consumers.

Now, I disagree with your opinion about the inappropriateness of putting a source in a position where questions about the quality control is made public and they are forced to address those issues. I see nothing wrong with this.

This IS the most "constructive" way to get results if your goal is to alert the community to evidence of potentially poor product quality. Shouldn't consumers be the first to know about such evidence? Shouldn't consumer reports be given the benefit of doubt unless proven otherwise?

The most "constructive" way to get results may be different if your goal is to be well-compensated by the source in exchange for reporting the evidence to the source first and/or to remain "in good standing" with the source as a future customer.

Similarly, the most "constructive" way to get results may also be different if your goal is to protect the cash flow business of the source. Should sources really be the only ones to be initially alerted to the evidence of poor quality? Should sources be given the benefit of doubt unless proven otherwise?

Now, there is always the situation in which the evidence of poor quality is inaccurate or false and/or is never confirmed independently. Clearly, this is unfair to source and may have unnecessarily harmed their business.

BUT, as unfortunate as that may be, it remains a much better scenario than the alternative...

If the evidence turns out to be true, then the failure to immediately post such evidence could lead to unnecessary harm/risk to numerous consumers.

If the goal is to protect consumers at all costs, then the course of action is clear.

IF the goal is to protect the source and its business, then the course of action is equally clear.
 
I didn’t go public with MFL’s test prop issue when it first failed labmax. I had just gotten blood work, and TT was exactly where it was supposed to be. I PM’d Ricky who of course denied there could be anything wrong, and gave all the usual reasons. Labmax said he would MS it, and Ricky said he would send it right away. I stayed silent. Two weeks later Labmax had no pack, my libido was still nil, and Ricky was still in denial.

Someone else, I don’t remember who, posted a similar complaint in MFL’s thread, and I posted the results then. Labmax didn’t get the pack for another two weeks, and by then it was obvious the prop had “something extra”. I don’t know how many people crushed their libido during those two weeks I stayed silent, but I swore I would not stay quiet one extra minute ever again. In these situations the source deserves zero consideration, the members every consideration. There is no balancing health against profit.
 
We just aren't in the business of making sources happy!! We are here to expose the nasty under belly within this industry.

I'd rather a source mad at me then any one of you to get hurt. To even think that the source cares for anything other then your money is ridiculous.

If they cared they'd actually test their Damn raws and quit screwing so many




I didn’t go public with MFL’s test prop issue when it first failed labmax. I had just gotten blood work, and TT was exactly where it was supposed to be. I PM’d Ricky who of course denied there could be anything wrong, and gave all the usual reasons. Labmax said he would MS it, and Ricky said he would send it right away. I stayed silent. Two weeks later Labmax had no pack, my libido was still nil, and Ricky was still in denial.

Someone else, I don’t remember who, posted a similar complaint in MFL’s thread, and I posted the results then. Labmax didn’t get the pack for another two weeks, and by then it was obvious the prop had “something extra”. I don’t know how many people crushed their libido during those two weeks I stayed silent, but I swore I would not stay quiet one extra minute ever again. In these situations the source deserves zero consideration, the members every consideration. There is no balancing health against profit.
 
I figure my test results should not have had to stand on their own. K should have immediately produced tests to confirm or dispute them. As it is if my results are in any way incorrect, it will be seen as a grave insult to K's reputation.

But K's reputation has already been damaged in my eyes. It was a simple test with clear results. Why are we still arguing about it more than a week later? If this had been another contraceptive incident, there would still be people pinning it and getting sick today.
 
Just the fact he had to send products in to be tested proves he hadnt tested raws in the first place; if he he tested everything like he said he tests everything he should have results for my batch and current batches. Piece. Of. Lying. Shit IMO
 
I figure my test results should not have had to stand on their own. K should have immediately produced tests to confirm or dispute them. As it is if my results are in any way incorrect, it will be seen as a grave insult to K's reputation.

But K's reputation has already been damaged in my eyes. It was a simple test with clear results. Why are we still arguing about it more than a week later? If this had been another contraceptive incident, there would still be people pinning it and getting sick today.

Very true. It doesn't make sense. Why argue it days later. Provide the "test results" of the batch in question and that's the end of it. The fact is, if he could provide those results there wouldn't be a failed lab max test because he wouldn't have sent out the failed products to begin with. Hopefully.

I say never hold back the truth. If products or services aren't up to standard, DO NOT hesitate to raise the red flag. By rasing it you not only put the source on notice but let the consumers know there could potentially be a problem.

It doesn't matter what source it is or how long they have been doing this. No one is immune to issues. These issues should be addressed openly.
 
I know brother, I know.. I'm just going to pay the money for a legit clinic a little south of here.. Real pharm test, anadrol, var, and deca..

Again though, I don't care about a more "constructive result" at this point, wouldn't even trust it.. At least now this is out there..
Everyone is looking forward to the results Jb. I didn't see this until yesterday.
Get well.
 
Riling up the masses , huh?
Nah , what you are doing is cementing what was thought about you into nothing less then reality!!
I have openly defended you many a time here when you were in the right but in this case you clearly have an agenda and it shows.
Time will tell whether the claim Johnny and Brutus made has merit but to come here defending vehemently that K is above all reproach and in no way can make any mistakes is baffling to me.

You know the truth and to try and hide from it is a character flaw that you can't hide any longer. We care not if we are patted on the fucking back by anyone here. We are in search of the truth and exposing the fact that China and the multiple raw dealers have in fact short changed many a source and the trickle down effect has fucked many a customer.

I have no doubt that K is not a purposeful scammer but again we are told that every batch is tested but the truth is that he trusted is source to continue supplying great raws.
Beautifully put bro! Sorry fellas iam on the late train.
 
Labmax was done after 200 mg a day anadrol no effect, 4 cialis chewed no effect and a friends pct is ending in gyno surgery.

How does PCT cause someone to grow breast tissue?

K's reps have repeatedly asked why there are no other complaints about his gear. It now seems obvious that aside from many complaints being deleted on censored boards, the boards themselves have created a climate of fear when it comes to openly criticizing sources. Just look at how Brutus and JohnnyB have been treated - and by supposed friends, no less. Who in their right mind would willingly come forward and complain when they know full well how their complaint is going to be received.
Excellent posts, Millard.

I was recently promoted to the staff at AB, where K is active. I have never received a complaint about K. I've never deleted a post that wasn't spam or closed a thread either.

There is no climate of fear at AB. I had a hand in having three sources kicked off of AB completely. In response, I was promoted to VIP and later promoted to staff.

I'm busy, on and off the boards, which is why I don't post here too often. I usually stop by if Ben contacts me for help, or there is a major scam going on the requires intervention.

I've made my feelings clear on the value of VIP titles in the past but I'll say this: ItalianMuscle and Graniteman's posts, both here and on other forums, have clearly demonstrated that they are acting as representatives for Karius and their credibility is destroyed.

If, as I understand the practice, forum owners truly award VIP titles to members that have gained their trust, then it is imperative that these two members be stripped of their VIP status immediately or the forum's credibility, and by extension, that of the forum owner, will be irreparably harmed.

Neither IM or Gman represent K. Gman is not a VIP at AB, although he probably should be. VIPs, on boards that don't protect scammers, are the most experienced, knowledgeable, and cut throat source critics.

Now, there is always the situation in which the evidence of poor quality is inaccurate or false and/or is never confirmed independently. Clearly, this is unfair to source and may have unnecessarily harmed their business.

BUT, as unfortunate as that may be, it remains a much better scenario than the alternative...

If the evidence turns out to be true, then the failure to immediately post such evidence could lead to unnecessary harm/risk to numerous consumers.
If the goal is to protect consumers at all costs, then the course of action is clear.
IF the goal is to protect the source and its business, then the course of action is equally clear.

The "evidence" should be treated as a claim because the product being tested and the results can be easily manipulated. Representing fraudulent data as legitimate is just as harmful as suppressing valid data, for both the vendor and consumer. I'm in favor of testing but there are limitations to tests results.
 
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