mmmiron
New Member
This thread never fails when I need a good laugh. 
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Karius - ALP / BAL Lists -
- Thread starter KariusM
- Start date
If you donated a tutor to him he would just try to set up a meet at a local gas station with him to show him who the man is. That is why we can't have nice things. Pearls before swine and all that.
tileguy123
New Member
Reading the last ten pages of this thread was a complete waste of my life...
A certain level of stupidity and juvenility is expected in an uncensored forum. But physical threats and invitations of physical violence against members is unacceptable. The inability to adequately or effectively communicate or defend a position via the written word is no excuse. The devolution of the this thread is an embarrassment to MESO and (should also be) to its offending participants.
Good Lord, Millard just very eloquently stated (in one paragraph) what I have been trying to say for a week now. I have started, and then deleted, 3 or 4 posts trying to say the same thing. I actually DID post an attempt to say the same thing in the 'Cash In Mail' thread yesterday, albeit, again, not as eloquently.
There comes a point when it becomes clear who is here for 'the right reasons' versus who is here 'for their own reasons'. When someone is posting stuff just so that they can run back to their buddies and say "hee hee hee, did you see what I wrote over at Meso, hee hee hee, I really got them going over there" - THAT IS PATHETIC!!!
The unfortunate part, and more frustrating part, is that this battle has blurred the lines for the average and/or new member dropping in, who would struggle to see who really cares about Meso and who is here to use this mess to further their rep and agenda elsewhere.
The whole "I'll meet you at a gas station and beat you up" nonsense is beyond embarrassing and a bad look for all involved. If someone truly desired to make this happen, they'd never be publicly advertising it - they'd be making arrangements off the board to make it happen.
Thank you Millard for effectively stating what many here have been thinking. Hopefully we can start to move forward from this mess.
There comes a point when it becomes clear who is here for 'the right reasons' versus who is here 'for their own reasons'. When someone is posting stuff just so that they can run back to their buddies and say "hee hee hee, did you see what I wrote over at Meso, hee hee hee, I really got them going over there" - THAT IS PATHETIC!!!
The unfortunate part, and more frustrating part, is that this battle has blurred the lines for the average and/or new member dropping in, who would struggle to see who really cares about Meso and who is here to use this mess to further their rep and agenda elsewhere.
The whole "I'll meet you at a gas station and beat you up" nonsense is beyond embarrassing and a bad look for all involved. If someone truly desired to make this happen, they'd never be publicly advertising it - they'd be making arrangements off the board to make it happen.
Thank you Millard for effectively stating what many here have been thinking. Hopefully we can start to move forward from this mess.
I guess k will never address this issue publicly? Business as usual. So all this for nothing.
ItalianMuscle27
Member
It was addressed publicly, not here. He made posts at AB & Outlaw, asking anyone who has had issues to please come forward. Not one single person came forward except for brutus/johnnyballz here. Both buddies sticking to their guns. Almost one month, and still no complaints anywhere but here. Dont you guys find that strange/odd??
This isnt brutus' first time complaining about a source. Seems to be an ongoing thing with him. He is ruining is credibility everywhere..
There has been absolutely NO truer statement ever written. At least pretty damn close.
mands
regular
New Member
The free speech model you have here creates interest but as as you have pointed out, the door can swing too far in the wrong direction. It is unfortunate that guys are using the freedom they have to abuse each other.
As I've said several times, K isn't active at Meso because he was unable to update his list here, so he abandoned this thread before Brutus and JB posted their complaint here. If you want to speak to K, go over to AB and post in a thread that is relevant, where K is active. The only reason any progress has been made by posting in this thread, is that I logged in here to check my PMs and randomly clicked on this thread.
I spoke with K on Friday. He responded to JB and Brutus' complaint by asking people to come forward who had issues with the products they ordered. I haven't received a single complaint from anyone else. According to K, he purchased some labmax test kits, tested the raws, and the raws passed. He also submitted some finished products for analytical testing and is waiting for the results to come back. He told me he was going to email JB and Brutus and process a refund for them. He also said JB and Brutus sent him an email with attachments and that email was not opened or responded to for security reasons. K would have paid for the testing Burutus and JB were planning to do if they had handled themselves differently. He encouraged them to test the products themselves.
So both sides are having further tests done. When everything thing is in we may have the truth or round 2 over who's tests are better.
Glad to see Millard post. This is proving nothing.
Glad to see Millard post. This is proving nothing.
ItalianMuscle27
Member
I cant wait for these results. If K has already said his raws passed with labmax, why would he even consider reimbursing 2 reverse scammers?
Sending attachments to a source is a big no no. That just shows the stupidity of brutus.. who knows what could have been in there. Maybe a virus?
ItalianMuscle27
Member
I dont know why brutus just doesnt send a few tabs to ecstasydata. Whats the harm in having another test done? Even though we wont know the mg, at least we would know if the compound is actually present. They are too scared to do so. If the test did come back in favor of K, they would say ecstasydata.org manipulated the test, and it cant be right.
You are correct though, its a no win situation.. There would be arguments on whose test was done right/better. Mass Spec overrides all..
johnnyBALLZ
Well-known Member
Brutus did post in K's thread on 8/3 on AB.. K was also aware of this thread here on Meso as HE posted here on 8/3..
And that's not true^^ he had issues with labmax in the past.. All of which went away by him sending in a var tab himself to ecstasy data..
I still fail to see what we did wrong, all we did was post our labmax results and personal experience with the tabs on our home board.. The email I sent K had an attachment with the labmax pics.. He could've simply emailed me back or PMed me saying he didn't feel comfortable opening an email with an attachment instead of disregarding it for over 3 weeks now..
I will not take anything from K at this point on principle alone.. That shoots down your reverse scam theory for probably the 12th time in the past 3 weeks..
The bottom line is this thread has grown over 100 pages in 23 days because italian muscle and graniteman have been coming over here late at night stirring things up.. All we did was give a review in the underground section which by my understanding is what this sub forum is for.. Had no clue so many people would get this butt hurt about it.. It's a total shame..
We did exactly what the members of this forum would expect us to do and I will not apologize for that.. I will apologize to Millard, bickel, and all the other members that are as sick of all this bullshit as I am.. I apologize for egging on the 2 numbskulls with some of my replies in this thread over the past several weeks.. Thanks to everyone here that knows me and stuck up for me in this thread, I appreciate it..
At this point I have nothing else to say and I promise to try and stay out of this thread until we have mass spec done.. At which point this bullshit will unfortunately start all over again..
Labmax is only a pass/fail, just like ecstasydata. It is a tool, but it sure isn't going to keep you from being scammed. We have already seen normas pass at 56 mg of product where it was supposed to be 250mg per cc. That amount will pass either test, but a mass spec would show them to be the bullshit they are purity-wise. No one wants to buy underdosed gear to that extent surely. I don't want to pop 10 tabs to get my daily dose of 25mg of dbol when they were advertised at 10 mg a tab either. We have seen this happen also. Bottom line is that we need to know it has what it says it has in it and at the advertised amount. That is what i need as a consumer, be it underground drugs or not. We'll see what shakes out when mass specs come back.
ItalianMuscle27
Member
Why not send in a tab to ecstasydata.org? Might as well get another opinion, correct? You guys are putting to much faith in the labmax test. You guys are too scared to send one in, because you fear the results will come out in ALP favor. So that would mean, the person doing the labmax doesnt know what the fuck he is doing, he is colorblind, or there was something wrong with the testing vials. Could be possible, correct?
As for how you and brutus handled it, you guys never even went to ALP, you immediately came here and bashed him and his products. Why not goto his home board or Outlaw and voice your opinion? No one is going to delete your posts, thats not how AB board is run. They have great guys running that place. You should have went to him first, and asked what can be done, or can we test this stuff, or whatever, then come here and post. Thats just proper forum procedure. Its been over a month, and you guys are the only 2 calling 5 of his orals bunk. You dont find that odd? If there was a legitimate concern, there would be more members coming forward. There isnt..
You guys were accusing a source that has been around for over a decade, with just about a flawless record, of putting out bad stuff. SO yeah, people take offense. And Ive used his orals, Im using his anavar now, along with a female friend of mind. They are legit, trust me. And Ill give him two thumbs up for his viagra too. Big boners everytime..
So where has THIS Italian Muscle been for the last 3 or 4 weeks? Your message, and your opposition to Brut's and Johnny's findings, would have been accepted by the members here had you just been this mature about it from the beginning.
Not to say that everyone or anyone would have agreed with you, but they would have respected your point of view.
I know you say you don't give a fuck about what anyone says, or you don't care about anyone's opinion of you, etc, etc, but your level of emotional investment in this thread is proof to the contrary.
Also, you have made yourself the unofficial defender of Karius, which you certainly are entitled to do if you choose. But don't you think if you are going to attempt to defend a guy as private and respected as K, you should do so with a little less volume and abrasiveness? You defeated yourself with the level of aggressiveness and personal attacks you have used.
Yes, Brutus and Johnny feel cheated, they believe they got bunk orals. And many of us who know them have seen no attempts on their part to extort Karius - from before this even went public, I never saw them trying to gain anything out of it. I do not know what they said to K in their emails to him, but I have seen no evidence of reverse scamming. I have no proof it didn't happen, but we have seen no proof that it did. Just accusations from those not directly involved.
Ironically, IM, what you are saying here in this post closely mirrors what many of us who get along with Johnny and Brutus have said previously. From the beginning I have called for as many testing results as possible to be gathered - labmax, mass spec, ecstasydata, etc. Millard himself called for the same thing. Everyone here knew that to strengthen any case would require maximum amounts of evidence. Some of us have even cautioned against solely relying on labmax alone. Does all of this sound familiar? Sounds like what you and Granite have called for, right?
This isn't over, and it doesn't even matter who is on whose side. Time and additional testing results will tell. But it can be accomplished with a level of civility that has been all too rare thus far.
We all want the same thing - the truth. But we also need to demand maturity and respect for both sides as that is accomplished.
ItalianMuscle27
Member
All I wanted was there to be more proof posted. Not just a labmax test. Makes no sense to put your faith in one thing, and not have something else to back up your claim. I have a labmax kit. Had it before anyone else here had one. To be honest, the colors are very hard to distinguish in some products, thats one reason I didnt want to rely solely on this as a 100% fail proof test. Is it useful? Yes. Is it accurate? I think with some products it is, but not all of them. Thats why I suggested ecstasydata.org. Even though we dont know the mg, we still would know the compound thats suppose to be in it.
I urged brutus to send at least one pill in, if not a few of them. Milliard has a thread going about doing mass spec testing, through a credited lab in EU. Members are willing to donate. WHy not use some of that money and send to ecstasydata.org?? $150.. And at least we will have picture proof of the tabs, so we know that they werent tampered with.
Probably wont happen now.. and thats unfortunate.
The post below is what started this entire mess. Read it carefully - there is NO bashing; just Brutus reporting his experience with ALP.
Like it or not, as per Millard's own words, the purpose of this forum is for users to give their experiences with UGL's. In fact, Millard has encouraged members to post ALL test results - good and bad.
"The "Steroid Underground" forum is intended for members only to share good and bad experiences ordering anabolic steroids on the internet black market, to provide steroid source reviews, to share links and ask questions about third party websites selling steroids, to talk about underground labs (UGLs) and to report steroid scammers."
You mean he should have kept it quiet in order to "protect" K's "flawless" reputation? Let K handle it privately and no one would be any the wiser, right? That practice has been the norm on source boards for as long as they've been in existence. And I strongly suspect that's the reason we haven't heard about any other complaints.
Again, @millard addresses this practice and why it shouldn't be accepted:
"The way things are typically done on practically all steroid-related forums is this: A member has a bad experience, bad lab test, bad product with a source. They are told in no uncertain terms by admins/mods/vets/vips/reps/etc that the appropriate way to address this situation is to contact the source privately, allow the source to make amends and resolve the problem and never say a word about it in public. The incident is largely swept under the rug.
Why is MESO the only place where members are allowed to call "bullshit" on this practice?
It does everything to protect the source and nothing to protect members."
Why is MESO the only place where members are allowed to call "bullshit" on this practice?
It does everything to protect the source and nothing to protect members."
You think this was about people being offended? Hardly. What we've seen on several forums was a purely DEFENSIVE reaction - a concerted defensive reaction. As soon as this news broke, the fanboys and shills swung into action like a fire station upon hearing an alarm. The wagons circled and defensive positions were taken up, then the relentless personal attacks on Brutus and JohnnyB's credibility began in earnest.
Those personal attacks really shouldn't have been a surprise though. That's par for the course when users post lab tests on sources, particularly popular ones. Millard has written about the disgraceful attacks William Llewellyn received for his testing of UGL's. Unfortunately, it appears those attacks had the desired effect.
"Unfortunately, the Underground Anabolics book is not published annually. It may have been the original goal but @@w_llewellyn told me he wasn't going to do it again.
Why? A big segment of the online community turned against him due to the influences of the source ecosystem -- including ugls/sources/admins/mods/vets -- that did their best to discredit him with smear campaigns as well as sources that threatened/blackmailed him and launched DDoS attacks against his website(s).
This is the price that is paid when you try to expose the poor quality control of UGLs.
As a supporter of @@w_llewellyn's efforts, MESO experienced some blowback as well (but nothing quite as severe as what Bill went through)."
Why? A big segment of the online community turned against him due to the influences of the source ecosystem -- including ugls/sources/admins/mods/vets -- that did their best to discredit him with smear campaigns as well as sources that threatened/blackmailed him and launched DDoS attacks against his website(s).
This is the price that is paid when you try to expose the poor quality control of UGLs.
As a supporter of @@w_llewellyn's efforts, MESO experienced some blowback as well (but nothing quite as severe as what Bill went through)."
LMAO
