Karius - ALP / BAL Lists -

[pmac928]

@CensoredBoardsSuck thank you! Exactly the reason I'm here and no where else!

 

[chewiebaca]

I think the whole issue with the approach was that they said they were bunk and followed by saying K wasn't good to go. As an EMT and now as a paramedic, I can have as many signs and symptoms as I want and I still cannot legally diagnose an issue. I can make a general assumption based on my general impression. That is how this should have been approached. Not as claiming the items bunk and a disservice but rather possibly bunk with more testing needed. Just my two cents.

 

[regular]

I cant wait for these results. If K has already said his raws passed with labmax, why would he even consider reimbursing 2 reverse scammers?
Sending attachments to a source is a big no no. That just shows the stupidity of brutus.. who knows what could have been in there. Maybe a virus?

I think he has his doubts because no one else has reported anything. He's doing some QC though.

Yes, emailing attachments is a serious problem, which is why they were not replied to.

Brutus did post in K's thread on 8/3 on AB.. K was also aware of this thread here on Meso as HE posted here on 8/3..

You're right, Brutus did post over at AB, I hadn't seen that. It looks like Brutus was being responded to but he and IM were getting into it, so Brutus left the thread. I did see a request go out for feedback and no one else reported a problem. Brutus trashed the staff saying his feedback would be removed and the staff would ban him though.

K may have posted here, but he left this list thread before you guys posted your complaint. He isn't at Meso and he is not following this thread. As I said several times, I only noticed this thread because I was checking my PMs. You guys are posting where no one affiliated with K is looking. Myo and I both advised you to go to AB.

And that's not true^^ he had issues with labmax in the past.. All of which went away by him sending in a var tab himself to ecstasy data..

K mentioned that the var sample sent to estacydata was sent by a client.

I still fail to see what we did wrong, all we did was post our labmax results and personal experience with the tabs on our home board.. The email I sent K had an attachment with the labmax pics.. He could've simply emailed me back or PMed me saying he didn't feel comfortable opening an email with an attachment instead of disregarding it for over 3 weeks now..

If all that was posted was some labmax results and feedback written expositorily, this thread wouldn't be described as an embarrassment to the board.

I understand you are growing and trying to find your way, but emailing attachments is not ok because it is a security threat. Don't expect anyone to respond to you if you send attachments.

In my view the problem was the unnecessarily inflammatory unprofessional nature of the feedback.

Labmax is only a pass/fail, just like ecstasydata. It is a tool, but it sure isn't going to keep you from being scammed. We have already seen normas pass at 56 mg of product where it was supposed to be 250mg per cc. That amount will pass either test, but a mass spec would show them to be the bullshit they are purity-wise. No one wants to buy underdosed gear to that extent surely. I don't want to pop 10 tabs to get my daily dose of 25mg of dbol when they were advertised at 10 mg a tab either. We have seen this happen also. Bottom line is that we need to know it has what it says it has in it and at the advertised amount. That is what i need as a consumer, be it underground drugs or not. We'll see what shakes out when mass specs come back.

Their argument was that the four products are bunk because they failed a labmax and one product is questionable because of the way it looks under a blacklight. A test from estacydata will help to confirm or disprove their arguments.

The problem with the mass specs is that they are not legal and therefore unverifiable. Find a way to get a credible verifiable mass spec done and it will become the standard.

 

[whodatnation]

The assumption that they immediately came here and posted in the open is completely false IM. I know this because I traded pm back and forth with Johnny on this issue a full ten days before they posted and know for a fact they didn't want to go about this the wrong way but also wanted to warn others that at the very least K had gotten a bad batch of raws from China.

They knew full well the potential fall out from this and was the main reason why they kept it to themselves and tested the products questioned before posting.

If you can't see your error coming here slinging mud like you were the outlaw Josey Wales claiming that K was beyond reproach this situation would not have gone the way it has. Without a doubt we know K can mess up and with a operation so large asking on a message board for people to come forth to voice their opinions , when ninety five percent of the time they have gotten great product from K , and getting outed by the community was just not going to happen. Considering most people don't even post or read any threads other then the source threads also further skews the fact of no one else ever getting bad products from K.

You started the mud slinging by slandering not only Johnny and Brutus but a wide spectrum of potential people with your convict comments and baby raping crap.

If K doesn't see that you are a detriment to his operation I am at awe. You are single handily the biggest buffoon I have ever seen on an internet forum and honestly I almost think you are just a clever troll but that would be giving you to much credit and the ability to actually think up a plan and follow it out.

Thank you Millard for pointing out what I can see now that I have stepped away from the situation and look back at my idiotic post. We can not allow chaos to rein here and must never allow those looking to cause dissension to gain a foothold.

Why not send in a tab to ecstasydata.org? Might as well get another opinion, correct? You guys are putting to much faith in the labmax test. You guys are too scared to send one in, because you fear the results will come out in ALP favor. So that would mean, the person doing the labmax doesnt know what the fuck he is doing, he is colorblind, or there was something wrong with the testing vials. Could be possible, correct?

As for how you and brutus handled it, you guys never even went to ALP, you immediately came here and bashed him and his products. Why not goto his home board or Outlaw and voice your opinion? No one is going to delete your posts, thats not how AB board is run. They have great guys running that place. You should have went to him first, and asked what can be done, or can we test this stuff, or whatever, then come here and post. Thats just proper forum procedure. Its been over a month, and you guys are the only 2 calling 5 of his orals bunk. You dont find that odd? If there was a legitimate concern, there would be more members coming forward. There isnt..
You guys were accusing a source that has been around for over a decade, with just about a flawless record, of putting out bad stuff. SO yeah, people take offense. And Ive used his orals, Im using his anavar now, along with a female friend of mind. They are legit, trust me. And Ill give him two thumbs up for his viagra too. Big boners everytime..

 

[Millard]

As I've said several times, K isn't active at Meso because he was unable to update his list here, so he abandoned this thread before Brutus and JB posted their complaint here. If you want to speak to K, go over to AB and post in a thread that is relevant, where K is active. The only reason any progress has been made by posting in this thread, is that I logged in here to check my PMs and randomly clicked on this thread.

K may have posted here, but he left this list thread before you guys posted your complaint. He isn't at Meso and he is not following this thread. As I said several times, I only noticed this thread because I was checking my PMs. You guys are posting where no one affiliated with K is looking. Myo and I both advised you to go to AB.

I somewhat disagree.

Posting it on MESO is a practically guaranteed way of notifying vendors (and many others) of a consumer complaint - and such was the case in this instance.

Any customer-oriented vendor would be wise to check MESO (or regularly Google its name to find relevant MESO results at the top of the list).

To his credit, @KariusM was fully aware of the situation and addressed it publicly on MESO within 7 HOURS of the original complaint.

@ItalianMuscle27 and @graniteman addressed it shortly afterwards. And @regular addressed it 10 days later. I agree that most "progress" towards a meaningful debate/discussion happened after @regular started posting.

I will look into this, but there's no pictures of our tablets in the labmax pics.?

Sold many thousands of these with no issues. My feedback goes back several years.

I will take this up on the forums I source on, look into it and address it, if need be.

Understand that quality to me is very important.


Regards,
K.

----

I just got $600 worth of bunk orals from him. Cialis, anadrol, var all bunk and the nolva was dbol. Test everythong... so much for good to go. Tests all just came back and I will be notifying him shortly- we shall see how the service is following a disservice

 

[regular]

I somewhat disagree.

Posting it on MESO is a practically guaranteed way of notifying vendors (and many others) of a consumer complaint - and such was the case in this instance.

Any customer-oriented vendor would be wise to check MESO (or regularly Google its name to find relevant MESO results at the top of the list).

To his credit, @KariusM was fully aware of the situation and addressed it publicly on MESO within 7 HOURS of the original complaint.
@ItalianMuscle27 and @graniteman addressed it shortly afterwards. And @regular addressed it 10 days later. I agree that most "progress" towards a meaningful debate/discussion happened after @regular started posting.

K left this list thread because he wasn't able to update it. I don't think he checks in here. Deacon linked Brutus' post here at AB. Then Brutus posted in the feedback thread at AB and was having his concerns addressed by an official party, which appears to have prompted K to make a post here. Brutus left AB, came to Meso, and complained that K was not responding to him. Myo told Brutus to go over back over to AB to get in touch with K but Brutus didn't seem to comply. Some time elapsed and I noticed what was going on over here on my own.

Meso is a fine place to leave feedback and discuss topics. However, JB and Brutus were complaining they were not being responded to. The issue is that they sent an email with attachments and are posting on a board K doesn't seem to be visiting.

 

[Millard]

K left this list thread because he wasn't able to update it. I don't think he checks in here. Deacon linked Brutus' post here at AB. Then Brutus posted in the feedback thread at AB and was having his concerns addressed by an official party, which appears to have prompted K to make a post here. Brutus left AB, came to Meso, and complained that K was not responding to him. Myo told Brutus to go over back over to AB to get in touch with K but Brutus didn't seem to comply. Some time elapsed and I noticed what was going on over here on my own.

Meso is a fine place to leave feedback and discuss topics. However, JB and Brutus were complaining they were not being responded to. The issue is that they sent an email with attachments and are posting on a board K doesn't seem to be visiting.

Wow. It doesn't seem to be the case that "no one affiliated with K is looking [at MESO]". So many people were looking at MESO and trying to facilitate communication between customer and vendor.

 

[regular]

Wow. It doesn't seem to be the case that "no one affiliated with K is looking [at MESO]". So many people were looking at MESO and trying to facilitate communication between customer and vendor.

No one working in an official capacity that can do what they need done checks in here.

JB and Brutus sent an email with attachments, the email was not opened for security reasons, and that seems to be as far as the communication went.

When someone wants to talk to you, they know you are here, so they come here to talk to you. Going to the place someone is active is an optimal way to get in touch with them.

 

[Zaphod]

Assuming they used a title for the email they sent, which I'm sure would've had sometime to do with the issue. Why wouldn't he just respond to the email (without opening it) and say he doesn't accept attachments. Instead of just ignoring it?

Also wasn't this posted on his board by another member. If I had such a public issue going on I think I would make myself present for it. Especially since he already has an account, all he had to do was log in.

*Just my thoughts

 

[Millard]

No one working in an official capacity that can do what they need done checks in here.

JB and Brutus sent an email with attachments, the email was not opened for security reasons, and that seems to be as far as the communication went.

When someone wants to talk to you, they know you are here, so they come here to talk to you. Going to the place someone is active is an optimal way to get in touch with them.

The fact that @KariusM responded here within 7 hours of the original complaint disproves that "No one working in an official capacity that can do what they need done checks in here" or that "no one affiliated with K is looking [at MESO]". You can't get much more official than that.

The customer's decision to post the feedback on MESO didn't hamper anything. Like I said earlier, it guaranteed that the vendor was alerted. Furthermore, it was effective and efficient at bringing the two parties together.

Once the vendor and customer were put in touch, they knew how to directly contact as well as the optimal way to contact each other.

The breakdown in communication had little to do with the customers decision to post on MESO as opposed to elsewhere.

I do find it odd that the parties involved would choose to use intermediaries to relay messages to each other. If the customer wondered why the vendor didn't reply to them, they could have sent another email. If the vendor received an email with attachments, they could have replied that they don't open emails with attachments.

This is a question of the motivations of the parties involved to directly communicate the issues via direct email rather than through the use of intermediaries.

Blaming the breakdown in communication solely or primarily on the customer's choice of posting on MESO isn't the issue.

 

[WMSuperSport]

God dammit!!! I just wanna read about steroids!!!! I dont give a shit about your drama.

Millard, can we have a sub forum called "dramatic butt hurt bullshit?" or something like that where all the bullshit can be moved to? lol jk

Now I need to go scream at Naps some more for not getting my shit after months of waiting and asking for a resolution...lol

 

[regular]

The fact that @KariusM responded here within 7 hours of the original complaint disproves that "No one working in an official capacity that can do what they need done checks in here" or that "no one affiliated with K is looking [at MESO]". You can't get much more official than that.

It appears Brutus left feedback at AB, K responded to his posts there, followed the link to Meso posted at AB, and responded here within a few minutes. K's last login date of 8/3 suggests that he is not checking the posts in this thread.

The customer's decision to post the feedback on MESO didn't hamper anything. Like I said earlier, it guaranteed that the vendor was alerted. Furthermore, it was effective and efficient at bringing the two parties together.

Once the vendor and customer were put in touch, they knew how to directly contact as well as the optimal way to contact each other.
The breakdown in communication had little to do with the customers decision to post on MESO as opposed to elsewhere.

I do find it odd that the parties involved would choose to use intermediaries to relay messages to each other. If the customer wondered why the vendor didn't reply to
them, they could have sent another email. If the vendor received an email with attachments, they could have replied that they don't open emails with attachments.
This is a question of the motivations of the parties involved to directly communicate the issues via direct email rather than through the use of intermediaries.
Blaming the breakdown in communication solely or primarily on the customer's choice of posting on MESO isn't the issue.

The decision to post complaints/feedback, where the intended recipient is not active, is inefficient because there is a good chance the intended recipient will not see the complaints/feedback.

I've mediated because JB and Brutus wont go to the board where the person they want to speak to is and talk to him themselves. I sent K a PM on their behalf because they said communications had broken down. K didn't respond to their email because it contained attachments, so they thought they were being ignored.

JB and Brutus didn't like their order, K offered them a refund, if they are refusing it, that is their choice. I suggest they contact K via attachment free email if they don't want to speak with him at AB.

 

[Millard]

The decision to post complaints/feedback, where the intended recipient is not active, is inefficient because there is a good chance the intended recipient will not see the complaints/feedback.

I am not convinced you are correct in assuming the intended recipient was necessarily the vendor. If that was the case, then contacting the vendor directly is most efficient.

If the target recipients were the thousands of people seeking information about the vendor via MESO and Google, then the customer(s)' decision to post on MESO was incredibly efficient. As an added bonus, I don't think there was a snowball's chance that the vendor would not see the complaint.

Any vendor in this category who fails to monitor its online reputation via Google and/or MESO does so at its own peril. The burden rests on the vendor rather than the customer.

 

[muscle96ss]

I am not convinced you are correct in assuming the intended recipient was necessarily the vendor. If that was the case, then contacting the vendor directly is most efficient.

If the target recipients were the thousands of people seeking information about the vendor via MESO and Google, then the customer(s)' decision to post on MESO was incredibly efficient. As an added bonus, I don't think there was a snowball's chance that the vendor would not see the complaint.

Any vendor in this category who fails to monitor its online reputation via Google and/or MESO does so at its own peril. The burden rests on the vendor rather than the customer.

But given the maturity level in which everything was presented and accusations were made, can you blame K for not wanting to give this thread the time of day? I also think the nature/tone of this thread combined with the lack of other complaints about the products in question hurt the credibility of the accusers and that they would have been taken much more seriously had the discussion been done in a more mature manner.

 

[Zaphod]

But given the maturity level in which everything was presented and accusations were made, can you blame K for not wanting to give this thread the time of day? I also think the nature/tone of this thread combined with the lack of other complaints about the products in question hurt the credibility of the accusers and that they would have been taken much more seriously had the discussion been done in a more mature manner.

I thought it was very civil before people jumped in accusing them of lying and reverse scamming.

 

[bickel29]

But given the maturity level in which everything was presented and accusations were made, can you blame K for not wanting to give this thread the time of day? I also think the nature/tone of this thread combined with the lack of other complaints about the products in question hurt the credibility of the accusers and that they would have been taken much more seriously had the discussion been done in a more mature manner.

Hmm...

Well, what I have been saying all along is that more failed testing samples were going to be needed to lend credibility to the claims, no matter who the claimants were.

Anytime you are taking on an established power like Karius, in any industry, a case is only strengthened in numbers. Unfortunately for Brutus and Johnny, it seems no one else is coming forward with failed samples, for whatever reasons. That is not to say that they are or are not out there - just that it seems like they are not being presented.

To your point, yes, of course the nasty and immature nature in which the discussion turned hurt the credibility of all involved, in the eyes of many observers. Readers started focusing on the circus like atmosphere, and lost track of the original message, which was unfortunate.

Again, we need more people who received orals from the same batch to come forward and test them. That alone, whether they passed or failed, would have driven the direction of this thread - not the silliness that ensued.

I will admit that my next statement will probably be an unpopular one, but I'll say it anyways. I believe that Karius handled this the way that most sources with his clout and record of success would have. Karius's concern is Karius - not us and our community, not Brutus, not JB. In handling it the way he did he minimized his negative exposure and maximized his support. He did come here and address it initially, but there is no way he was going to get involved in the back and forth fray - nor should he have.
His way of handling this may not have tasted real good to many Meso members, but that was not K's focus - his focus was and is Karius, understandably so.

 

[Millard]

But given the maturity level in which everything was presented and accusations were made, can you blame K for not wanting to give this thread the time of day? I also think the nature/tone of this thread combined with the lack of other complaints about the products in question hurt the credibility of the accusers and that they would have been taken much more seriously had the discussion been done in a more mature manner.

Yes, the juvenility and stupidity of the ensuing discussion hurt the credibility of all its participants. K's reputation may have been unfairly harmed due to the immaturity of some of his defenders; they certainly didn't do K any favors. I wouldn't blame him for avoiding the thread.

Now if the evidence was addressed as intelligently and respectfully as @regular did, the thread would have had an entirely different tone.

(Here's a recommendation for members: Make judicious use of the "ignore" function and watch how the tone of the thread changes entirely.)

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

But given the maturity level in which everything was presented and accusations were made, can you blame K for not wanting to give this thread the time of day? I also think the nature/tone of this thread combined with the lack of other complaints about the products in question hurt the credibility of the accusers and that they would have been taken much more seriously had the discussion been done in a more mature manner.

The maturity level on what thread and from what forum?


IM made the following comments on TID:

"As for me going to vegas on a sources dime? F*CK YOU! Where do you get off claiming Im getting kickbacks, etc. Its called having a job and making a living. Try it sometime.. Not my fault you went to prison and are stuck on parole. We all make choices, deal with yours and Ill deal with mine.."


"Who knows what an ex-cons motives are? Who knows if he really tested ALPs oral with labmax."

"If you think I am going to give up my Mass Spec/HPLC guy, you're ****ing nuts. To be honest, I wouldnt test sh*t for you hypocrites over at Meso.
Oh I know exactly how I am looking. Im in the drivers seat. I get free shit and sources pay me to bump them. What more could a guy ask for?

End of my Rep? LOL.. My rep is golden.."

"Italian/granite show? F*ck you dude. I am so sick of your shit, I cant wait till you eat your f*cking words. Big conspiracy show against the all mighty angus79.. Woah is me, woah is me.. Dont worry tabs are being sent out as we speak to ecstasydata.org. Will see if dbol is dbol, drol is drol and cialis is really cialis. Ill bet when results come back good, you dont believe them, and if they come out bad, we'll get the I told you they **** me.."
​

Granite's posts from TID:

"Paisan, I would just let it go you're not going to get anywhere with these 2 gangsta's, not worth the headache's. Maybe if we ignore him he'll take JohnnyBallhugger and go home. These two are like a cancer"

"Ironic but if I was K I probably wouldn't respond to either one of you either, way you two are acting smells more like LE than anything else. You two asshats are a major security risk for the entire community."

"HOLY CRAP!! You guys are really out therein conspiracy world. You believe Bush knocked down the Twin towers too?? I don't even really know K other than a stellar rep. You guys tweakers? It would fit the mo here, Im jus sayin. You see how you take something and twist it all up into something completely off the charts?
Time to get on home sonny boy , Mama's callin.

The way you two are acting and going about it I wouldn't acknowledge you. Def wouldn't give you a addy or convos.. Smells like bacon up in here"

"Don't worry..I don't even have to tell your Mom to pop her gums out anymore..it's 2nd nature for her theses days. Times are hard..womans gotta do what a womans gotta do specially when her 30 year old son is still in the basement spongin off her. Get a job son, she works hard fo tha money!!"

"Simple rule douchebag..never spend more than you can afford to lose. Now I know it takes you months on your paper route to save up but sack up son. Act like a grown up and maybe things would go better for you clowns"

"Dude, wipe your chin, it's a lil unbecoming of a fierce gangsta like yourself"

​

How about OLM?

The only guy complaining is over at meso. His name his brutus79..ex con, possible child molester, and he is out on parole. Claims the last 4 sources he dealt with fucked him, and now ALP makes number 5.

IM..look above you..another Meso roach....

​

And even AB is not exempt from the lack of maturity:

I see, so Angus' Mass Spec tests are flawed, ecstasydata.org cant be trusted, but the infamous labmax test that you personally used, is 100% accurate. Yeah, we all get it.. Funny how you are the only one having issues with ALP. I guess the rest of us are just experiencing a placebo effect.. Makes sense to me!!
And if you're accusing me of covering something up, go fuck yourself. Not my problem steroids dont work for you. Blame the source is so typical. Never blame your own personal well being, life style, diet, or workout regime. It must be bunk orals.. Post up your diet and workout if you dont mind. Let us be the judge..

Looks like a bunch of happy customers and no complaints. Just one guy wanting to start shit..

Personally, I think you are full of shit. Send the tabs to be Mass Spec tested, end of story.
Put your money where your mouth is, and I cant wait till you eat your words that that 5 of ALP tabs were bad..

I don't believe any of those tests. Funny how guys will bitch and complain at meso, but wont say shit over here on ALPs home board.. Just post up links..Cowards!

And fuck that labmax test. Why don't you clowns send in tabs to ecstasydata.org and get real Mass Spec results, instead of speculating by a fucking color? They will break the tab down and tell you exactly whats in it. Or maybe you cheap fucks dont have $150 to do the test. Pool your money and get the tests done. Takes 2-3 weeks..

You have nothing better to do then to start shit with sponsors? At least I post proof. We dont even know if those labmax tests were with ALP products. Just the word of some clown who post whored his way to well known member status at Mesorx..

Comment:

Meso and it's "uncensored" format certainly can't be blamed for all the BS that has transpired over the last few weeks. There's enough blame to go around for ALL the boards. I think it is fair to say that this conversation/battle was destined to end up at Meso because of its uncensored format.


That said, K could have called his "boys" off at any time yet chose not to do so. It seems just as likely that he was quite content to let his attack dogs "hurt the credibility of the accusers" because it provided a convenient cover for his lack of response and allowed his "flawless" reputation to remain intact.

The recent focus on the lack of maturity is a strawman. And it's drawing attention away from the important issues: K's indifference to Brutus and JB's complaints, as well as the obvious agendas that are at play here. Perhaps that was the desired effect.

Regards

CBS

​

 

[regular]

I am not convinced you are correct in assuming the intended recipient was necessarily the vendor. If that was the case, then contacting the vendor directly is most efficient.

If the target recipients were the thousands of people seeking information about the vendor via MESO and Google, then the customer(s)' decision to post on MESO was incredibly efficient. As an added bonus, I don't think there was a snowball's chance that the vendor would not see the complaint.

Agreed

Any vendor in this category who fails to monitor its online reputation via Google and/or MESO does so at its own peril. The burden rests on the vendor rather than the customer.

If the goal is resolving a problem as opposed to "stirring the pot," it seems strange to complain about someone's poor communication where they less likely to see it.

For example, although you and I are on other boards together, when I want to talk to you, I come here because this is where you're most active. Coming here gives me the best chance to deliver the message I am attempting to convey. I don't select a board that you infrequently participate on as the place to converse with you because my chances of catching you are less good. However, as you pointed out, resolving the issue with direct communication may not have been the intent.

Yes, the juvenility and stupidity of the ensuing discussion hurt the credibility of all its participants. K's reputation may have been unfairly harmed due to the immaturity of some of his defenders; they certainly didn't do K any favors. I wouldn't blame him for avoiding the thread.

Now if the evidence was addressed as intelligently and respectfully as @regular did, the thread would have had an entirely different tone.

(Here's a recommendation for members: Make judicious use of the "ignore" function and watch how the tone of the thread changes entirely.)

I appreciate your confidence in me Millard. You and I present our arguments for consideration and frequently disagree but we always treat each other with respect and admit when the other has a good idea. Arguing doesn't need to be hostile. I read Meso for a years before registering an account here. I should have participated sooner because I enjoy our conversations.

I would prefer it if the paradigm on steroid underground wasn't to assume the wost in everyone and respond to any disagreement with immediate abuse/hostility/antagonism/personal attacks/disrespect. All of the infighting that occurred in this thread was unnecessary.

JB and Brutus didn't like their order. K will refund them if they want to accept a refund. Both sides have doubts about the other. Both sides have evidence that suggest the other is incorrect. I'm not K's apologist, rep, shill, defense attorney, or protector. To K's credit, he never attacked anyone and responded by testing the products in question. However, both sides had shortcomings which were presented in this thread.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Agreed




If the goal is resolving a problem as opposed to "stirring the pot," it seems strange to complain about someone's poor communication where they less likely to see it.

For example, although you and I are on other boards together, when I want to talk to you, I come here because this is where you're most active. Coming here gives me the best chance to deliver the message I am attempting to convey. I don't select a board that you infrequently participate on as the place to converse with you because my chances of catching you are less good. However, as you pointed out, resolving the issue with direct communication may not have been the intent.





I appreciate your confidence in me Millard. You and I present our arguments for consideration and frequently disagree but we always treat each other with respect and admit when the other has a good idea. Arguing doesn't need to be hostile. I read Meso for a years before registering an account here. I should have participated sooner because I enjoy our conversations.

I would prefer it if the paradigm on steroid underground wasn't to assume the wost in everyone and respond to any disagreement with immediate abuse/hostility/antagonism/personal attacks/disrespect. All of the infighting that occurred in this thread was unnecessary.

JB and Brutus didn't like their order. K will refund them if they want to accept a refund. Both sides have doubts about the other. Both sides have evidence that suggest the other is incorrect. I'm not K's apologist, rep, shill, defense attorney, or protector. To K's credit, he never attacked anyone and responded by testing the products in question. However, both sides had shortcomings which were presented in this thread.

Damn it... I couldn't even make it 24 hours..

Once again, I like most of this post except the "stirring the pot" comment and a few others.. I like to call it an honest review from a guy whose integrity has never been called into question over my brief but active 18 month tenure.. Other members can take it however they like..

K still hasn't contacted me as you said he would when you posted in this thread that you talked to him Friday by the way... I emailed, brutus PMed on AB.. He didn't respond, no big deal, as I told you I don't want anything at this point but thanks for your help..