Karius - ALP / BAL Lists -

[johnnyBALLZ]

Damn it... I couldn't even make it 24 hours..

Once again, I like most of this post except the "stirring the pot" comment and a few others.. I like to call it an honest review from a guy whose integrity has never been called into question over my brief but active 18 month tenure.. Other members can take it however they like..

K still hasn't contacted me as you said he would when you posted in this thread that you talked to him Friday by the way... I emailed, brutus PMed on AB.. He didn't respond, no big deal, as I told you I don't want anything at this point but thanks for your help..

And I do not mean that last part sarcastically.. I hold you in high regard @regular , even after some of your snide comments here..

I won't take a refund and neither will brutus to give the naysayers any satisfaction with their "reverse scamming" remarks.. My word is worth a lot more than a few hundred bucks and I'll shell out a few more to back it up regardless of who accepts the results..

 

[Barrpiece]

D

 

[Millard]

If the goal is resolving a problem as opposed to "stirring the pot," it seems strange to complain about someone's poor communication where they less likely to see it.

For example, although you and I are on other boards together, when I want to talk to you, I come here because this is where you're most active. Coming here gives me the best chance to deliver the message I am attempting to convey. I don't select a board that you infrequently participate on as the place to converse with you because my chances of catching you are less good. However, as you pointed out, resolving the issue with direct communication may not have been the intent.

I think most of our disagreement arises from our evaluation of the situation based on a different set of assumptions.

If you assume the customer's primary intended target is the vendor, the problem is that the customer received "bad" product and the goal is to receive direct compensation, then your opinion on the course of events will differ from mine; this is because I assume customer's intended target is the community of consumers, the problem is that many consumers may be unknowingly receiving bad product and the goal is to influence consumer demand and improve quality control via market forces.

Your assumptions are very logical in that consumers generally act out of self-interest. It doesn't make sense that consumers would act otherwise.

If your assumptions are correct, then I think you are right.

If my assumptions are correct, then perhaps the customer is genuinely acting out of the interest of protecting the community. It amounts to much more than "stirring the pot".

I don't know.

But what I do know is that after the treatment that the original customers received in this thread and various other forums around the internet, I doubt any rational person would willingly subject themselves to this type of abuse, hostility and personal attacks in the future.

That is unfortunate.

But it only makes it more important for MESO to remain committed to protecting the consumer voice in this underground market.

I would prefer it if the paradigm on steroid underground wasn't to assume the wost in everyone and respond to any disagreement with immediate abuse/hostility/antagonism/personal attacks/disrespect. All of the infighting that occurred in this thread was unnecessary.

There is room for improvement. I think we should welcome and encourage discussions towards that.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

I think most of our disagreement arises from our evaluation of the situation based on a different set of assumptions.

If you assume the customer's primary intended target is the vendor, the problem is that the customer received "bad" product and the goal is to receive direct compensation, then your opinion on the course of events will differ from mine; this is because I assume customer's intended target is the community of consumers, the problem is that many consumers may be unknowingly receiving bad product and the goal is to influence consumer demand and improve quality control via market forces.

Your assumptions are very logical in that consumers generally act out of self-interest. It doesn't make sense that consumers would act otherwise.

If your assumptions are correct, then I think you are right.

If my assumptions are correct, then perhaps the customer is genuinely acting out of the interest of protecting the community. It amounts to much more than "stirring the pot".

I don't know.

But what I do know is that after the treatment that the original customers received in this thread and various other forums around the internet, I doubt any rational person would willingly subject themselves to this type of abuse, hostily and personal attacks in the future.

That is unfortunate.

But it only makes it more important for MESO to remain committed to protecting the consumer voice in this underground market.

There is room for improvement. I think we should welcome and encourage discussions towards that.

Millard gets it... LONG LIVE MESO!!

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

But what I do know is that after the treatment that the original customers received in this thread and various other forums around the internet, I doubt any rational person would willingly subject themselves to this type of abuse, hostily and personal attacks in the future.

And THAT^^^ was the goal all along. As William Llewellyn unfortunately discovered, there is no limit to how far sources are willing to go to protect their interests.

At the very least, this thread will serve as an example of what others can expect if they have problems with sources, particularly popular ones, and complain about it publicly. It's a dirty business.

 

[bickel29]

Wow, this thread has made a turn around and has headed in a much more productive direction. Thanks to the many folks yesterday who contributed the thoughtful and thorough replies.

Just to quickly hit on a couple of the points...

--I, personally, do not believe that Karius wanted anyone going on the various boards and behaving the way we saw some folks behaving. It didn't benefit K, or anyone. It did not draw attention away from the issue - it brought attention to it. This thread and this topic constantly stayed at the top of the forum because of it - and the volume with which it stayed out there was blaring and intense - not good for K.

--Brutus and Johnny were ABSOLUTELY aware of the impending controversy awaiting their accusations before coming out with it. They are both smart guys, streetwise and in the world of AAS forums. Johnny and I had discussions about this before they came out with it and it is not like JB was some country bumpkin saying "awe shucks, hope nobody gets their feathers ruffled over this here issue". In my opinion, they were brave for addressing it, whether you agree with their methods in doing so or not. Many of us would have kept quiet to avoid the hassle and attacks.

--There needs to be more understanding and acceptance between the 'older generation' and the 'younger generation' of members on all of these forums. It seems like many of the guys who have been around for a long time struggle to understand the newer/younger guys who put people on blast when their are problems - and there also seems to be animosity towards the long time guys who believe in handling this stuff behind the scenes. No matter which side you think is right, they both exist. And attacking each other only furthers the divide.
It is like the Jehovah's witness who condemns you and shuns your lifestyle - they are not exactly winning you over, they are only pushing you further away from their beliefs, which seems to be the opposite of their goals.
Yes, if you are strongly against one side or the other, it is maddening. But attacking the other side with derogatory insults and ugly labels often times makes the target feel validated in their refusal to accept the other side's argument.

Just my take on some of the issues raised yesterday...

 

[BigJP]

So now that the dust has settled is K gtg?

 

[TheSpectre]

So now that the dust has settled is K gtg?

IMO, yes. I am about to order from him next week. Need some good winny and his is.

 

[ItalianMuscle27]

The maturity level on what thread and from what forum?


IM made the following comments on TID:

"As for me going to vegas on a sources dime? F*CK YOU! Where do you get off claiming Im getting kickbacks, etc. Its called having a job and making a living. Try it sometime.. Not my fault you went to prison and are stuck on parole. We all make choices, deal with yours and Ill deal with mine.."


"Who knows what an ex-cons motives are? Who knows if he really tested ALPs oral with labmax."

"If you think I am going to give up my Mass Spec/HPLC guy, you're ****ing nuts. To be honest, I wouldnt test sh*t for you hypocrites over at Meso.
Oh I know exactly how I am looking. Im in the drivers seat. I get free shit and sources pay me to bump them. What more could a guy ask for?

End of my Rep? LOL.. My rep is golden.."

"Italian/granite show? F*ck you dude. I am so sick of your shit, I cant wait till you eat your f*cking words. Big conspiracy show against the all mighty angus79.. Woah is me, woah is me.. Dont worry tabs are being sent out as we speak to ecstasydata.org. Will see if dbol is dbol, drol is drol and cialis is really cialis. Ill bet when results come back good, you dont believe them, and if they come out bad, we'll get the I told you they **** me.."
​

Granite's posts from TID:

"Paisan, I would just let it go you're not going to get anywhere with these 2 gangsta's, not worth the headache's. Maybe if we ignore him he'll take JohnnyBallhugger and go home. These two are like a cancer"

"Ironic but if I was K I probably wouldn't respond to either one of you either, way you two are acting smells more like LE than anything else. You two asshats are a major security risk for the entire community."

"HOLY CRAP!! You guys are really out therein conspiracy world. You believe Bush knocked down the Twin towers too?? I don't even really know K other than a stellar rep. You guys tweakers? It would fit the mo here, Im jus sayin. You see how you take something and twist it all up into something completely off the charts?
Time to get on home sonny boy , Mama's callin.

The way you two are acting and going about it I wouldn't acknowledge you. Def wouldn't give you a addy or convos.. Smells like bacon up in here"

"Don't worry..I don't even have to tell your Mom to pop her gums out anymore..it's 2nd nature for her theses days. Times are hard..womans gotta do what a womans gotta do specially when her 30 year old son is still in the basement spongin off her. Get a job son, she works hard fo tha money!!"

"Simple rule douchebag..never spend more than you can afford to lose. Now I know it takes you months on your paper route to save up but sack up son. Act like a grown up and maybe things would go better for you clowns"

"Dude, wipe your chin, it's a lil unbecoming of a fierce gangsta like yourself"

​

How about OLM?

​

And even AB is not exempt from the lack of maturity:

Comment:

Meso and it's "uncensored" format certainly can't be blamed for all the BS that has transpired over the last few weeks. There's enough blame to go around for ALL the boards. I think it is fair to say that this conversation/battle was destined to end up at Meso because of its uncensored format.


That said, K could have called his "boys" off at any time yet chose not to do so. It seems just as likely that he was quite content to let his attack dogs "hurt the credibility of the accusers" because it provided a convenient cover for his lack of response and allowed his "flawless" reputation to remain intact.

The recent focus on the lack of maturity is a strawman. And it's drawing attention away from the important issues: K's indifference to Brutus and JB's complaints, as well as the obvious agendas that are at play here. Perhaps that was the desired effect.

Regards

CBS

​

Mother fucker, you have nothing better to do then troll my posts? You want me troll your posts and post some of your immaturity? Some of that was me being sarcastic. You, brutus and dr jim posting up lies about me.. calling me a scammer, repping for this guy and that guy, selling counterfeit HGH, posting up fake HPLC tests.. again..WITHOUT ANY PROOF! POST IT IF YOU GOT IT! I have better things to do then quote your pathetic posts here and at TID. You're a disgrace to meso and the rest of the bodybuilding community.. Thanks for showing what a true ass you are..

 

[ItalianMuscle27]

The assumption that they immediately came here and posted in the open is completely false IM. I know this because I traded pm back and forth with Johnny on this issue a full ten days before they posted and know for a fact they didn't want to go about this the wrong way but also wanted to warn others that at the very least K had gotten a bad batch of raws from China.

They knew full well the potential fall out from this and was the main reason why they kept it to themselves and tested the products questioned before posting.

If you can't see your error coming here slinging mud like you were the outlaw Josey Wales claiming that K was beyond reproach this situation would not have gone the way it has. Without a doubt we know K can mess up and with a operation so large asking on a message board for people to come forth to voice their opinions , when ninety five percent of the time they have gotten great product from K , and getting outed by the community was just not going to happen. Considering most people don't even post or read any threads other then the source threads also further skews the fact of no one else ever getting bad products from K.

You started the mud slinging by slandering not only Johnny and Brutus but a wide spectrum of potential people with your convict comments and baby raping crap.

If K doesn't see that you are a detriment to his operation I am at awe. You are single handily the biggest buffoon I have ever seen on an internet forum and honestly I almost think you are just a clever troll but that would be giving you to much credit and the ability to actually think up a plan and follow it out.

Thank you Millard for pointing out what I can see now that I have stepped away from the situation and look back at my idiotic post. We can not allow chaos to rein here and must never allow those looking to cause dissension to gain a foothold.

They came here and spewed foul play. They never went to K first. That has already been proven. They didnt say shit at AB till I said something here. Brutus thinks his posts would be deleted at AB if he posted something negative. AB isnt run like that, its run by some good people. Get them Mass Spec tested, end of story. Brutus is too chicken shit to send them in. Hell, you guys want to fund Mass Spec for a lab in EU, why not use the money and get the 5 orals in question tested?
You're nothing but a clown sitting behind a computer, a follower of the biggest con to hit meso in years. Where are the complaints at if these orals are bunk? No one has stepped forward.. No one!
And I could give two shits what you think of me. Put me on igrnore. You're a troll on meso and always will be.

 

[ItalianMuscle27]

And I do not mean that last part sarcastically.. I hold you in high regard @regular , even after some of your snide comments here..

I won't take a refund and neither will brutus to give the naysayers any satisfaction with their "reverse scamming" remarks.. My word is worth a lot more than a few hundred bucks and I'll shell out a few more to back it up regardless of who accepts the results..

Then why are you still in this thread for? Get those orals Mass Spec tested. END OF FUCKING STORY! Send them to ecstasydata.org. You guys are too chicken shit too, because there is fear you guys were wrong. Then you would for certain look like fools here. Forget that the orals might be underdosed. You guys claimed the nolvadex was dbol. PROVE IT!
You and brutus never even used the anavar or dbol, just called foul play with a labmax test. You realize with the labmax, that if you put too much powder in, it can alter the results? But flesner is dr labmax, not a chance he could have made a mistake, eh? LOL..

 

[BigJP]

IMO, yes. I am about to order from him next week. Need some good winny and his is.

Could you pm how to contact K he hasn't responded to my pm

 

[TheSpectre]

Could you pm how to contact K he hasn't responded to my pm

Are you a member @ OLM or AB?

 

[BigJP]

Are you a member @ OLM or AB?

Neither I've had a family friend as my supplier for years hadn't needed another source until a few months ago, used mlg through a friend and got burned

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Mother fucker, you have nothing better to do then troll my posts? You want me troll your posts and post some of your immaturity? Some of that was me being sarcastic. You, brutus and dr jim posting up lies about me.. calling me a scammer, repping for this guy and that guy, selling counterfeit HGH, posting up fake HPLC tests.. again..WITHOUT ANY PROOF! POST IT IF YOU GOT IT! I have better things to do then quote your pathetic posts here and at TID. You're a disgrace to meso and the rest of the bodybuilding community.. Thanks for showing what a true ass you are..

 

[TheSpectre]

Neither I've had a family friend as my supplier for years hadn't needed another source until a few months ago, used mlg through a friend and got burned

Well, being a member for a year or more is a general prerequisite. Unless you got lots of good references. What products were you looking for specifically? Maybe try another source.

 

[alphastrength50]

wait so spectre has there already been testing done since youre saying theyre g2g now?

 

[workinghard89]

Some tests results should he posted soon.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

wait so spectre has there already been testing done since youre saying theyre g2g now?

Spectre is a good dude.. He posted about all of this to raise awareness in a private forum awhile back.. Then K gave him some new samples on a different board, he must've been pleased..

I'm not aware of any new test results from K yet, not that they'll mean very much..

 

[Mr.Bravo]

JB did you and Brutus get a ms done?