Lean Bulk Cycle Advice

[Slowww]

This cycle seems extremely weird for a bulking phase. Caring so much about water retention, being fluffy and as shredded as possible in a bulk is not productive imo.
Point is to gain as much muscle as possible not look dry in the mirror.

using highly anti catabolic compounds/ things that can preserve strength/ in a cut or make you much stronger with a higher potential to get injured if you’re actually moving weight in a bulk seems counter intuitive. Why ruin blood in an off season then be unable to use tren in a cutting phase when it’s actually more useful?

 

[Astartes]

I need to call out some of the “bulking” and “cutting” BS here by some folks. We know better.

There is reasonable vetting and then there is just being plain picky with newcomers.

Unless you are a competitor and _significantly_ above your genetic max (or approaching) _and_ on PEDs… heavy bulking and cutting may not be the most advisable approach.

There is _absolutely_ lean or clean bulking. (Consistent lifting at or slightly above maintenance calories with managing macros)

Granted what we know and refer to as bulking and cutting is different than an average lifter. (Myself included)

OP basically wanted to stay lean and add lean muscle mass over time. Which is completely reasonable for 99.99% of people.

This is what he called a “clean or lean bulk”.

Come on gents. We knew this, or should have. We could have educated him on the nuance and variation of concept in bodybuilding forums and still given him useful and helpful info.

Instead the first page was full of calling him out without clarifying that bodybuilders push for additional muscle accrual in short rapid bursts and then cut trying to maintain 70-80% or mass gain on the leaning phase.

This is the modern concept and works well for the elite who have pushed well above genetic limits or are pushing against the clock to add tissue.

For the rest of the population, particularly those 40+ years old, slow consistent gains result in more long term lean muscle accrual without injury and muscle that is more “mature” and less prone to degredation on cruise

EDIT: No comment on PED cycle. Most folks were spot on there and it is highly personal preference and individual. Don’t know enough about him to critique

 

[permission to land]

You’ve prob never even cycled for real before. You need to start with test only and use an AI to control estrogen. 350/wk and 16 week minimum or you’re wasting your time, and with your approach at least 60% of it won’t even be there when it’s time to come off or cruise. If 16w minimum you can maybe hope to keep 60% of just the lean tissue gained (which will likely be under 12 lbs and will likely appear underwhelming compared to on cycle and in spite of the fact that you’ll be up 10 ish lbs of lean muscle from before). The water gains from test will leave shortly after blast is done. Additionally, some tissue will wear off gradually over multiple months if you come off to natural levels. You’ll keep the tissue by cruising but of course likely hurting your health more in the long run

Great advixe thanks

 

[permission to land]

I need to call out some of the “bulking” and “cutting” BS here by some folks. We know better.

There is reasonable vetting and then there is just being plain picky with newcomers.

Unless you are a competitor and _significantly_ above your genetic max (or approaching) _and_ on PEDs… heavy bulking and cutting may not be the most advisable approach.

There is _absolutely_ lean or clean bulking. (Consistent lifting at or slightly above maintenance calories with managing macros)

Granted what we know and refer to as bulking and cutting is different than an average lifter. (Myself included)

OP basically wanted to stay lean and add lean muscle mass over time. Which is completely reasonable for 99.99% of people.

This is what he called a “clean or lean bulk”.

Come on gents. We knew this, or should have. We could have educated him on the nuance and variation of concept in bodybuilding forums and still given him useful and helpful info.

Instead the first page was full of calling him out without clarifying that bodybuilders push for additional muscle accrual in short rapid bursts and then cut trying to maintain 70-80% or mass gain on the leaning phase.

This is the modern concept and works well for the elite who have pushed well above genetic limits or are pushing against the clock to add tissue.

For the rest of the population, particularly those 40+ years old, slow consistent gains result in more long term lean muscle accrual without injury and muscle that is more “mature” and less prone to degredation on cruise

EDIT: No comment on PED cycle. Most folks were spot on there and it is highly personal preference and individual. Don’t know enough about him to critique

Thanks mate

 

[marsupial]

I need to call out some of the “bulking” and “cutting” BS here by some folks. We know better.

There is reasonable vetting and then there is just being plain picky with newcomers.

Unless you are a competitor and _significantly_ above your genetic max (or approaching) _and_ on PEDs… heavy bulking and cutting may not be the most advisable approach.

There is _absolutely_ lean or clean bulking. (Consistent lifting at or slightly above maintenance calories with managing macros)

Granted what we know and refer to as bulking and cutting is different than an average lifter. (Myself included)

OP basically wanted to stay lean and add lean muscle mass over time. Which is completely reasonable for 99.99% of people.

This is what he called a “clean or lean bulk”.

Come on gents. We knew this, or should have. We could have educated him on the nuance and variation of concept in bodybuilding forums and still given him useful and helpful info.

Instead the first page was full of calling him out without clarifying that bodybuilders push for additional muscle accrual in short rapid bursts and then cut trying to maintain 70-80% or mass gain on the leaning phase.

This is the modern concept and works well for the elite who have pushed well above genetic limits or are pushing against the clock to add tissue.

For the rest of the population, particularly those 40+ years old, slow consistent gains result in more long term lean muscle accrual without injury and muscle that is more “mature” and less prone to degredation on cruise

EDIT: No comment on PED cycle. Most folks were spot on there and it is highly personal preference and individual. Don’t know enough about him to critique

If you want to milk the cycle as much as it’s worth, you can’t be afraid to bulk and even put on a little fat. With that you’re at least guaranteeing that you’re getting as much from the cycle as possible, and you can then cut later. Lean bulking for most people will just leave gains on the table

 

[explodingHeart]

I wouldn’t call that shitty lol. It’s pretty normal to not get any meaningful anabolism from primo or mast. Most people are better off using minimum dose for estrogen control and or cosmetics

I feel vindicated

instead of using mast to avoid bloat, I could have just dieted down to a legit 8% and started off very skinny. Then gaining water weight from test + GH wouldn't matter so much.

I think if you use steroids, you need to start out very lean then end your bulk at maybe 10-12% max.

 

[permission to land]

I don't like this at all, first things first tren has no place in off season. Test should be higher than other anabolics, especially for off season. Mast in a growth phase..it seems there's only a handful of people (if any) that can grow direct from masteron, so you rely growing on 200 test which is not gonna happen.

Also clean bulk is not a thing, it's like saying dirty cutting. You either bulk or maintain or cut. If you want to bulk you need to be in a surplas and put on muscle tissue, fat and water. There's no way around it, otherwise everyone in this sport would only put lean tissue without the need to go in cutting phase ever again.

You think pros don't get fat? It seems like they're not because they start bulking from 4% bodyfat but end up in 10-12%. So technically someone at 100kg with 4% has 4kg of fat and if he end up 115kg with 10% that equals 11,5kg of fat. So he might gain 7,5kg of fat and the other 7,5kg is muscle tissue and water. It's just an illusion of "clean bulk" because at 12% bodyfat they're still very lean compared to us average gymbros.

If you start at 10% bodyfat you'll end up at maybe 16-17% depends on your surplas, gear, cardio, bulk length and obviously diet. If you want to add mass don't be afraid to get blurred and a little chubby, when you cut down after it will worth the hassle.

Thanks mate. Solid advice. I’m going to drop this idea and stick to TRT and just bulk for 18/24 months.

I’ve always lost all the muscle I’ve added when cutting, and I’m sick of this YO YO dieting and never reaching my goals.

When it comes to doing my cut, what do you propose is the best moderate cutting stack to keep muscle?

 

[permission to land]

I tried for six months, about 200mg test 800 mast. It kept bloat / water down and made it look like I wasn't taking anything, zero sides.

But I could access almost zero gains. I train to failure usually and damn near zero progress.


I'm not afraid to admit I have shitty genetics, but last time I did 750mg test + AI, I kept getting stronger nearly every month.

How is this possible unless you’ve reached your genetic limit? If you can grow naturally, you’re growing on 1g of AAS per week.

 

[marsupial]

I feel vindicated

instead of using mast to avoid bloat, I could have just dieted down to a legit 8% and started off very skinny. Then gaining water weight from test + GH wouldn't matter so much.

I think if you use steroids, you need to start out very lean then end your bulk at maybe 10-12% max.

Eh that’s not realistic for 99% of people. More realistic would be starting from 9-11% and then ending at 16-17% to ensure you’re milking the dose for all you can get

 

[marsupial]

But yea in general unless you have very good genetics, you’ll only be getting meaningful gains (ie tissue gains that last while post cycle or cruising) from wet compounds rather than dry ones, and yes that’s generally going to mean more sides

 

[explodingHeart]

But yea in general unless you have very good genetics, you’ll only be getting meaningful gains (ie tissue gains that last while post cycle or cruising) from wet compounds rather than dry ones, and yes that’s generally going to mean more sides

For me mast is such a weird compound. The more I inject, the water I pee out.

But if I inject 200 test, 200 deca, I blow the fuck up (with water I guess) and instantly get a massive boost in strength. Of course I look like shit and it's probably not real tissue gain.

 

[Big_paul]

Hi all.

Just after some advice. Hoping to be 10% bodyfat when I start this (end of Sept) and want to do a 12 week lean bulk.

I want to add as much tissue as I can with as little fat as I can. I don’t want to simply blow up, I just want to stay a similar bodyfat but add some quality muscle. I know this will be diet dependent and a focus on my macros and calories will be at an all time high to ensure I don’t overeat. In the past I’ve just got fat when bulking by overeating, albiet mostly clean food.

Here is it planned cycle. I’m thinking of this as a quite a dry cycle than uses compounds that gel well together and it’s not ovally complicated or silly in terms of doses. All copounds are long ester.

The Tren will be there to help with essentially keeping the fat low. Even 50mg a week can help with nutrition partitioning.

Test: 200mg
Mast: 400mg
Tren: 50mg - 100mg (unsure which yet)

I’ve sacked orals off and don’t bother with them anymore.

What’s everyone think. With my goals (dry, lean tissue, no water and or fat), to this cycle. Would you change anything?

Thanks.

Tren and test worked best for me. Nothing wrong with the cycle you have planned.

Some have trouble with tren, but I'm not one of them. Mast is a good alternative, but a distant 2nd.

 

[Sampei]

guys why shitting on Primo? many ppl use it and it does wonder.
Yeah masteron I wouldn't use it on a bulk cycle.
Test/primo/200mg tren? fuck yeah if you can eat on tren.
Test/NPP/Primo? same great.
Test/Primo? fantastic too.

 

[TUTfan]

Post some pictures, lets see what you are working with. Also post your diet and training program in detail.