Least dangerous blasts on trt for >40

Problem in the US is not normal medical visits, is important surgeries or medical issues that will rekt you. Even with insurance many procedures cost you thousand of thousands of dollars.

By statistic the first risk for an American family to get rekt economically is: medical bills (even with proper insurance).

So yeah I believe for small things you do have a much better system but for anything serious I would never like to be in USA unless I'm a multi millionaire.

Plus how much do you pay for insurance in USA? How much is it monthly for a family of 4?
As for financially wrecked even with health insurance - no. Insurance in the United States has Out of Pocket Maximum, OOP. No matter what you need, you will never have to pay more than that amount, so you select an OOP that you can self insure. The OOP is for an individual, and for an entire family. So even if you have six kids and some terrible disease and a car wreck with severe injuries and a knee surgery, you will never pay more than the OOP. Insurance pays everything above the OOP.

How much is monthly insurance in the US for a family of 4? Annually, it is capped at 8.5% of MAGI by law (2021 and 2022).

That cap was needed because Obamacare increased insurance expenses through the roof. Mine is more than 10X what is was pre-Obamacare, and that is still apples to oranges, because no insurance company sells insurance as good as I had prior to Obamacare.
 
As for financially wrecked even with health insurance - no. Insurance in the United States has Out of Pocket Maximum, OOP. No matter what you need, you will never have to pay more than that amount, so you select an OOP that you can self insure. The OOP is for an individual, and for an entire family. So even if you have six kids and some terrible disease and a car wreck with severe injuries and a knee surgery, you will never pay more than the OOP. Insurance pays everything above the OOP.

How much is monthly insurance in the US for a family of 4? Annually, it is capped at 8.5% of MAGI by law (2021 and 2022).

That cap was needed because Obamacare increased insurance expenses through the roof. Mine is more than 10X what is was pre-Obamacare, and that is still apples to oranges, because no insurance company sells insurance as good as I had prior to Obamacare.
Ok but OOP start from what? I mean isn't it true that if you need transplant or serious surgery even with insurance you have to shell 50k or even more for treatment? Does insurance cover easily or they are sneaky bastard trying always to be cheap as fuck and avoid expensive treatment if they can find a little reason at their own convenience? Mind you I'm just trying to understand how it works. I'm kinda ignorant on the USA medical insurance situation, I know mostly by stuff that I read, stuff heard from ppl and movies ahaha

fee healthcare is awesome for low class and poor ppl, is kinda shit for medium class and it's useless for rich ppl because well... They can afford the best anyway.

Middle class get murdered because they can't really use it much due to super long queue before getting treatment so they pay out of their pocket because they can but it's a burden on their finance. For poor ppl is awesome because well . They are poor and they could not afford insurance if they were in USA for example.

That's scary for example .. I know many ppl in America don't have insurance because it's too expensive right? So they are left to die? How does it work? They get send to slaughter house of hospitals were there is the worse of the worse?

I know that for example USA has crazy expensive price for everything that is medical related, it's a lobby, like you go to the ER, 4 hours and maybe a saline solution they charge you 10k stuff like that. Crazy shit

You do have top notch of medical care I guess, clinics must be mostly shine and super technological compared to Italy or many other countries.
 
We actually pay less in taxes for our healthcare than the US does but OK.
We pay a payroll tax for Medicare (health insurance for old age) of 1.45%. I am not aware of any other taxes for healthcare in the US.

But let's compare Canadian income taxes to American income taxes.

Let's assume $100,000 income in American dollars, so roughly $122,000 Canadian.

In America, married, filing jointly, there is a $25,100 standard deduction, so that leaves only $74,900. 0% tax on the first $25,100.

Then we have 10% tax up to the next $19,900. Tax = $1990 on the first $45,000 (25,100 +19,900) of income.

Then we have a 12% tax on the next $61,100, so that fills up all of the remaining money. $100k-$45k= $55k. So 12% of $55k = $6,600

6600 +1990 = $8590

This dramatically overstates what is paid by most Americans at that income level, however, due to above the line deductions like student loan interest and tax credits for children and deductions for money saved in 401(k) and IRA. The retirement contributions alone could easily a $30,000 reduction in income, lowering that tax bill by $3600 (leaving only $4990 for a total federal income tax bill). Add a few kids, and many American families pay no federal income tax whatsoever on that income. To give away a little personal information - I expect a $9600 federal child tax credit for 2021, so plug that into the above and you see that the income tax burden is not very high in the US unless you have a very high income.

Now, Canada.

We start with the exact same income, which is $122,000 Canadian.

You have a basic personal amount of $11,474 plus another one for the province, I picked Alberta, $18,450. These do not get added together, but are a deduction against each separate tax system.

So federal income is now $110,526 (0% tax below that)

Alberta income is now $103,550 (0% tax below that)

Federal
15% on the first $49,020
20.5% on 49,020 up to $98,040
26% on 98,040 up to our hypothetical income.

Province (again, picked on at random, these will be different)
Additional 10% up to our income level.

So, the math. 15% up to $49,020 is $7353. We are almost already up to the American's total tax load on a much lower income level.

20.5% of 49,020 to 98,040, another $10,049.10.

And the remaining income taxed at 26% = $3,246.36.

Federal $3246 + 10,049 + 7353 = $14,155

Then we have provincial income tax of 10% = $10,355.

So the exact same income pays income tax of $24,510 for the pleasure of living in Canada, whereas that income in the US pays a maximum of $8590 but perhaps down to $0 depending upon circumstances, which for many persons are very real circumstances. It would be a rare married couple that pays the full $8590.

I left out US state income tax. We have 50 states. In the US, some states have income tax, some don't. My state does, but we are talking about a couple / few thousand a year.



Canadians, please fill in some blanks for me. Do you have other taxes? E.g., we have a payroll tax here that mostly caps at $141,000 of payroll income. It does not apply at all to non payroll income (like profits).

Does your "basic personal amount" double if you are married?

Do kids get you a tax credit?

Sorry for asking all these things, but I did not wish to invest the time to become an expert on Canadian income taxes. It took long enough just to put the above together.

Most folks do not pay attention to how brackets work. As a result, most Americans WAY overestimate how much they pay in federal income taxes. As you can see from the above, the effective rate for an American family is in single digits at $100,000 of income, no matter what his situation with other deductions and credits. It could easily be zero. Most Americans (90%+) are not aware of this and react violently when you try to explain it.

Please change anything you need to or inform me about things I have not asked about that raise or lower that tax burden in Canada. I did the best I could with what I had.
 
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Ok but OOP start from what? I mean isn't it true that if you need transplant or serious surgery even with insurance you have to shell 50k or even more for treatment?
LOL! No, not with insurance. OOP has a set maximum by law. I think right now it is about $14,000 (going from memory) for a family and $10,000 for an individual, but most policies are much lower than the maximum that the law imposes.

I understand what you are writing, and I am sure that somebody has some horror story, but what you described is just not the way it generally works.

Uninsured = very different story, but there is not much excuse for going uninsured in the US, especially since the government subsidizes insurance based on income. Lower income folks generally pay little to nothing for health insurance, and, like I wrote above, even high income families pay a maximum of 8.5% of income. That is the law here.
 
We pay a payroll tax for Medicare (health insurance for old age) of 1.45%. I am not aware of any other taxes for healthcare in the US.

But let's compare Canadian income taxes to American income taxes.

Let's assume $100,000 income in American dollars, so roughly $122,000 Canadian.

In America, married, filing jointly, there is a $25,100 standard deduction, so that leaves only $74,900. 0% tax on the first $25,100.

Then we have 10% tax up to the next $19,900. Tax = $1990 on the first $45,000 (25,100 +19,900) of income.

Then we have a 12% tax on the next $61,100, so that fills up all of the remaining money. $100k-$45k= $55k. So 12% of $55k = $6,600

6600 +1990 = $8590

This dramatically overstates what is paid by most Americans at that income level, however, due to above the line deductions like student loan interest and tax credits for children and deductions for money saved in 401(k) and IRA. The retirement contributions alone could easily a $30,000 reduction in income, lowering that tax bill by $3600 (leaving only $4990 for a total federal income tax bill). Add a few kids, and many American families pay no federal income tax whatsoever on that income. To give away a little personal information - I expect a $9600 federal child tax credit for 2021, so plug that into the above and you see that the income tax burden is not very high in the US unless you have a very high income.

Now, Canada.

We start with the exact same income, which is $122,000 Canadian.

You have a basic personal amount of $11,474 plus another one for the province, I picked Alberta, $18,450. These do not get added together, but are a deduction against each separate tax system.

So federal income is now $110,526 (0% tax below that)

Alberta income is now $103,550 (0% tax below that)

Federal
15% on the first $49,020
20.5% on 49,020 up to $98,040
26% on 98,040 up to our hypothetical income.

Province (again, picked on at random, these will be different)
Additional 10% up to our income level.

So, the math. 15% up to $49,020 is $7353. We are almost already up to the American's total tax load on a much lower income level.

20.5% of 49,020 to 98,040, another $10,049.10.

And the remaining income taxed at 26% = $3,246.36.

Federal $3246 + 10,049 + 7353 = $14,155

Then we have provincial income tax of 10% = $10,355.

So the exact same income pays income tax of $24,510 for the pleasure of living in Canada, whereas that income in the US pays a maximum of $8590 but perhaps down to $0 depending upon circumstances, which for many persons are very real circumstances. It would be a rare married couple that pays the full $8590.

I left out US state income tax. We have 50 states. In the US, some states have income tax, some don't. My state does, but we are talking about a couple / few thousand a year.



Canadians, please fill in some blanks for me. Do you have other taxes? E.g., we have a payroll tax here that mostly caps at $141,000 of payroll income. It does not apply at all to non payroll income (like profits).

Does your "basic personal amount" double if you are married?

Do kids get you a tax credit?

Sorry for asking all these things, but I did not wish to invest the time to become an expert on Canadian income taxes. It took long enough just to put the above together.

Most folks do not pay attention to how brackets work. As a result, most Americans WAY overestimate how much they pay in federal income taxes. As you can see from the above, the effective rate for an American family is in single digits at $100,000 of income, no matter what his situation with other deductions and credits. It could easily be zero. Most Americans (90%+) are not aware of this and react violently when you try to explain it.

Please change anything you need to or inform me about things I have not asked about that raise or lower that tax burden in Canada. I did the best I could with what I had.
Our higher brackets do pay more income tax than in the US, but that doesn’t change the fact that government spending on healthcare is higher in the US than in anywhere else in the world.

I provided the relevant data earlier. See for yourself.

Canada spends a ton of money on infrastructure maintenance among other things because we have a lot of isolated roads to maintain and they tend to get trashed due to the shitty winters. We also pay out a lot of money to the poorer provinces as subsidies. For example, we pay people in some of the northern provinces and territories a stipend to live there. We also have things like paid maternity leave, which is far from free and the US doesn’t have as far as I know.

It’s not an apples to apples comparison, and healthcare costs are not the reason why we pay more by any means.
 
Is the amount of dollars per American spent v. the amount of dollars per Canadian spent -

7k or 11k per person

the only valid indicator of which system is "better?"

I submit that it is not and that this is a very shallow and perhaps misleading way to analyze whether to permit a government to take over a certain sector of the economy.
 
healthcare costs are not the reason why we pay more by any means.
the latest data from the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) in 2017 found that on average a Canadian spends $6,604 in taxes for healthcare coverage.



I couldn't find the median, which is probably a lot lower, but this is not an insignificant amount in your taxes and should not be dismissed so lightly.
 
the latest data from the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) in 2017 found that on average a Canadian spends $6,604 in taxes for healthcare coverage.



I couldn't find the median, which is probably a lot lower, but this is not an insignificant amount in your taxes and should not be dismissed so lightly.
By no means am I saying that our system is perfect. It’s not by any measure. I’m just pointing out that the idea that social medicine costs vast sums of money and is this huge tax burden is silly. It’s simply not true.

The private system in the US actually costs more to run.
 
If I tell you guys how much taxes I pay here in Italy and the average salary here you wouldn't believe me :(

So you pay less taxes then Canada but you need to add to those taxes the cost of your insurance 5k a year for a family of 4 more or less?
 
Is the amount of dollars per American spent v. the amount of dollars per Canadian spent -

7k or 11k per person

the only valid indicator of which system is "better?"

I submit that it is not and that this is a very shallow and perhaps misleading way to analyze whether to permit a government to take over a certain sector of the economy.
I’ll see if I can find the study I read by the AMA. The US ranked poorly or even dead last in many key healthcare performance metrics. Canada wasn’t far behind, mind you.

If a country is spending a ton on healthcare and their system is amazing, that’s fine. When you’re spending the most of anyone in the world and rank like, 25th, there’s an issue.
 
If I tell you guys how much taxes I pay here in Italy and the average salary here you wouldn't believe me :(

So you pay less taxes then Canada but you need to add to those taxes the cost of your insurance 5k a year for a family of 4 more or less?
Took a quick look at your tax brackets, and, ouch!
 
Go figure, pro-free market foundation doesn’t like social medicine lol
 
By no means am I saying that our system is perfect. It’s not by any measure. I’m just pointing out that the idea that social medicine costs vast sums of money and is this huge tax burden is silly. It’s simply not true.

The private system in the US actually costs more to run.
What you are saying, on the surface at least, is true. That hardly sums up the debate, though. We do have socialized medicine for older Americans, and, like in Canada, the government dictates costs. It is called Medicare, and, as far as I am aware (I am not an expert in this subject), it covers more than the Canadian government covers.

I have also seen Medicare reimbursement rates, however, and as a result a lot of providers simply refuse to accept Medicare.

I am not sure having the government distort economic incentives is the solution.

I mean, we could simply enslave all of the doctors, nationalize the buildings and equipment, and get healthcare for less than 10% of the current price, but it would not be hard to see where that would lead - there are always more consequences to any decision than the first, surface consequence.
 
Go figure, pro-free market foundation doesn’t like social medicine lol
Did you read it? Are the stats about how many Canadians came to the US and paid out of pocket, for example, just made up lies?

Try not to be closed minded. I have to read all the pro-socialized medicine propaganda from the American media about how wonderful things would be if only we had Canada's system. You can read one article.

Why are more than 95% of journalists hard core lefties, BTW?
 
What you are saying, on the surface at least, is true. That hardly sums up the debate, though. We do have socialized medicine for older Americans, and, like in Canada, the government dictates costs. It is called Medicare, and, as far as I am aware (I am not an expert in this subject), it covers more than the Canadian government covers.

I have also seen Medicare reimbursement rates, however, and as a result a lot of providers simply refuse to accept Medicare.

I am not sure having the government distort economic incentives is the solution.

I mean, we could simply enslave all of the doctors, nationalize the buildings and equipment, and get healthcare for less than 10% of the current price, but it would not be hard to see where that would lead - there are always more consequences to any decision than the first, surface consequence.
The first paragraph contains an outright fabrication, so it’s not off to a good start.

Canada’s tax burden is 36 percent to 51 percent higher than America’s.
This is true for income tax, although they’re not specifying which tax they mean.

These extra taxes are largely driven by government health care costs.
Our healthcare costs are lower as I’ve already shown. How would lower costs increase the tax burden? That makes no sense.

When the first paragraph contains incorrect information, I lose interest quickly.
 
I guess your reading comprension is very low but I mean... From a guy that got hospitalised using the HGH of ciraws when we all told you to not being that retarded in trusting an unknown sources (your friend right? Lol) should I be surprised?

Again I asked you some specific questions you didn't answer, when you come back with answer from those questions we can start having a conversation, before is just bullshit speculation on your part, I don't waste my time on pointless debates.

Take care

you sir are a fucking asshole i dont even want to discuss with.
How old are you, 13?
Im on the edge of getting a implanted ICD and you act like that. Respectless piece of shit.
 
10,800 a year is paid out for my personal health care. Your average teacher or cop is around 8000. Anyone over 62, poor and under 18, in prison, working at a prison, handicapped, enlisted or veterans, plus cops teachers DMV etc are paid for out of taxes. America pays a lot for health care.

We are told they can charge what they want because we're capitalists but they pay the government with lobbyists to make sure we use their experiences ass doctors and only order drugs from their approved places. It's a fucked up hybrid where the government set tons of rules like socialists then tell the companies to charge what they want because they're capitalists. We do drive a lot of innovation and it is usually decent health care but it is expensive and has issues
 
Our healthcare costs are lower as I’ve already shown. How would lower costs increase the tax burden? That makes no sense.
Because out tax burden is generally 1.45% (a payroll tax) for healthcare (Medicare tax). Anything higher than that is an increase in the tax burden. I gave the average number above, which was not from this article you are discussing.

It makes perfect sense.

I think you are trying to say that although it increases the tax burden, the overall cost is lower even after considering the tax burden? I don't want to put words in your mouth.
 
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