Lifelong struggle with weight, GLP, Grey, CN, here, and next….

[BeardedGuy]

Hey everyone. 45yo male, 6’0” 310 lbs. medium build w a belly.
I’ve always fought my obesity, lost 100 lbs in my 30s on PSMF & testosterone gel. Gained it back. Up to 380 lbs at one point.
Have always preferred lifting over cardio. Discovered GLPs in July, down from 365 to 310. Stronger than I’ve been in a while.
Trying to get to around 250 lbs. with a nice chest. Stubborn chest, won’t grow.
Desk / travel job, outside sales, industrial items.
Receding hairline, but trying to keep it.
I eat ready made fresh meals from my grocery store, but add in extra chicken. Shredded chicken on bed of spinach for lunch. Two eggs, two sausage patties every morning.
Wake up to pee several times a night. Often grab a granola bar on those trips. Whoever put the bathroom on the other side of the kitchen can piss off.
Right shoulder sounds like crunchy granola with clicks added in; left shoulder rapidly catching up.
Belong to the local rec center, free weights, cable machines, lots of Hammertech machines.
I listen to podcasts constantly so any recs are appreciated.
Currently peptides only, but… learning. Thinking low dose HGH (1-2 iu) might help burn this fat… (Hunter Williams recent podcast).
And that’s it. Keep the hair and erectons, lose fat, get enough muscles to get a date or two.
Open to suggestions, guidance, knowledge, advice. Happy to be here, ready to learn.

 

[malfeasance]

Have always preferred lifting over cardio.

BeardedGuy, first congratulations on taking charge and doing something about this.

Second, start doing cardio. Stair climber if available, elliptical if not. Start out easy and go until uncomfortable. Next time add a minute (60 seconds). The time after that, add another minute. Keep adding until you get to around 40-45 minutes, then dial the time back and add one intensity level. Then start again adding a minute each time. You'll be doing real cardio pretty soon this way.

Discovered GLPs in July, down from 365 to 310.

You need a structured diet, like all bodybuilders should be eating.

I eat ready made fresh meals from my grocery store, but add in extra chicken. Shredded chicken on bed of spinach for lunch. Two eggs, two sausage patties every morning.
Wake up to pee several times a night. Often grab a granola bar on those trips.

Ditch the granola bars in the trash can. They are garbage, when considering your goal.

Ditch the sausage patties. Same comment.

Now, what else goes on the salad? Just pure, raw spinach, no dressing? No cheese, bacon bits, nuts, etc?

Chicken - what kind? How is it cooked? You need to take a careful look at the fat content.

Also, weigh and track your food and get your protein level up as high as you can stand it. 250 grams daily is a good minimum suggestion.

Whoever put the bathroom on the other side of the kitchen can piss off.

LOL!

Currently peptides only, but… learning. Thinking low dose HGH (1-2 iu) might help burn this fat… (Hunter Williams recent podcast).
And that’s it. Keep the hair and erectons, lose fat, get enough muscles to get a date or two.
Open to suggestions, guidance, knowledge, advice. Happy to be here, ready to learn.

No testosterone or TRT? How are your testosterone levels?

 

[BeardedGuy]

That’s all awesome, thanks.
I’m walking, down to sub-16 minute mile.
I do 1 mile post lifting squat days
1.5 miles on other lifting days
And the. 3.125 miles on non-lifting “rest” days.
Also TRT, yes. Doctor administered, maybe 250 every 2 weeks? Whatever second step “normal” no weekly dose would be.
Without it testosterone was 230 ng/dL.
The chicken is covered with cheese and mayo, raw spinach, cannot speak to the quality, but from a local family owned coffee shop.
I could do better with weighing food. I’ll target 250 g and start weighing and see where we land

 

[malfeasance]

Just FYI, you have to watch fats. Why? Because they pack 9 calories per gram. So the chicken covered in cheese and mayo is not the best idea.

How is it cooked?

We need a cooking method that does not add fat.

This is why the joke is that bodybuilders eat grilled chicken and Jasmin rice. It is a joke that is not too far off the truth.

 

[egruberman]

More cardio, certainly. Aim for a minimum of 180 minutes per week up to about double that.

Prioritize your protein intake, 1g/lb of body mass, use whey protein if you have to. @malfeasance advice is spot on. Ditch as much fat as you can. That's the route by which a ton of calories can sneak their way into your diet. That said, your hunger should be pretty well managed by whatever GLP-1 RA that you're on. Which is it and what's the dose?

HGH is fine if you can afford it, especially for old fucks like myself. 1-2iu is barely replacement dose. I'd aim for something a bit higher, 4-6iu. Work up to that dosage, however. Some folks get sides, paresthesia for example, on smaller doses. Start at 2, run that for a couple weeks and add 1iu every week or so. One single dose in the evening is fine, or divided may help with lipolysis. Keep an eye on fasted blood glucose, though. Some people have blood sugar issues with HGH.

 

[malfeasance]

When I say cardio, I am not talking about steps. I am talking about elevated heart rate for a sustained period of time. Cardiovascular exercise.

I am not criticizing walking. Walking is good! I am just defining my terms.

Actual cardiovascular exercise will burn a lot more calories during the same period of time compared to walking, and your cardiovascular system also gets the benefits of performing it.

 

[BeardedGuy]

When I say cardio, I am not talking about steps. I am talking about elevated heart rate for a sustained period of time. Cardiovascular exercise.

I am not criticizing walking. Walking is good! I am just defining my terms.

Actual cardiovascular exercise will burn a lot more calories during the same period of time compared to walking, and your cardiovascular system also gets the benefits of performing it.

Ah, I see what you’re saying.
I don’t mind the intensity, I did CrossFit for a while and wrestled/football in high school. But the way the Mind Pulp guys explain it, for strictly shedding fat, low heart rate cardio pulls from fat stores whereas high intensity stuff pull from glycogen.
Plus the old joints….

 

[egruberman]

Ah, I see what you’re saying.
I don’t mind the intensity, I did CrossFit for a while and wrestled/football in high school. But the way the Mind Pulp guys explain it, for strictly shedding fat, low heart rate cardio pulls from fat stores whereas high intensity stuff pull from glycogen.
Plus the old joints….

This is an oversimplification. There is a point, that is relatively low intensity that is "fat max", which is to say maximal fat oxidation. That's often depicted in a crossover with glycolysis like so:




That graph is deceptive in the sense that it shows fat oxidation going to zero, which it does at a certain intensity, but this graph shows fat oxidation as a percentage of energy output. As exercise increases KJ (kilojoules) increase. As such fat oxidation will tend to plateau across increasing intensity while glycolysis increases sharply. A better graph looks like this:


Note that intramuscular fat and plasma FFA combined are roughly the same in terrms of KJ from 50% VO2Max to 70%.

In any case. with regard to cardio, you'll want to aim for zone 2. That's sufficient intensity that you're breathing hard, but can still speak normally. Approximately 60-70% max HR if that helps.

Max HR is ~220-age, so for me 220-52 = 168 Max HR. Zone 2 should be 100-120BPM or thereabouts.

Given that I know my max HR is a bit higher than the formular represented, I generally aim for 120-130.

 

[malfeasance]

You can play with the zones all you want to, but total calorie expenditure matters. If I burn 160 calories walking a mile or 580 on a stair climber, no argument about zones or glycogen or pulling from fat is going to overcome that discrepancy.

I tend to look at things simply, and I get results, so . . .

There is also a huge health benefit to working in a higher heart rate range. This circles back around, of course, because working in the higher heart rate range burns more calories over the same period of time.

30 minutes of exercise at 100 bpm (suggested above) v. 30 minutes of exercise at 148 bpm - these two things are not even in the same galaxy.

 

[malfeasance]

And does the theory go, if I burn glycogen from raising my heart rate above this low 120 bpm, day after day after day, for 18 months, with a 700 calorie deficit between diet and cardio, that I am still going to be fat 18 months later because I was "pulling from glycogen and not fat stores?" Do people really think this way?

 

[malfeasance]

Have always preferred lifting over cardio. Discovered GLPs in July, down from 365 to 310.

BeardedGuy, please be aware that nothing I am posting is a criticism of your progress. You have been losing almost two pounds a week to make that much progress. You are doing very well.

You asked for input, so I provided some ways to optimize things. So long as you are still doing two pounds a week, there is no reason to adopt anything I have suggested, although I would still recommend diet and cardiovascular exercise changes just looking out for health, not just cutting weight.

If your progress slows down or stalls, then there are plenty of suggestions above by me and egruberman to get it going again.

One last thing - if you want muscle, I would follow the recommendations that both of us made about increasing protein and tracking. Higher protein diets come out better in the end in terms of body composition. This has been proven over and over in studies, and higher is better.

Protein is not high calorie, only 4 calories per gram (watch the fats that might come along with the protein, though!), and even that four calories is not true, because to be used as energy protein must go through a metabolically expensive process, which means some of that four calories is burned just converting it (costs roughly 1.32 calories, so leaves only 3.68 calories of the original 4).

 

[BeardedGuy]

And does the theory go, if I burn glycogen, day after day after day, for 18 months, with a 700 calorie deficit between diet and cardio, that I am still going to be fat because I was "pulling from glycogen and not fat stores?" Do people really think this way?

Sometimes it feels that way. Once you get big fat big, it’s tough to recover…. I was keto and CrossFit and stuck at 325 just like now I’m stuck at 315… you hit a point where you’ll try anything. “Reverse diet for a week.”

 

[BeardedGuy]

BeardedGuy, please be aware that nothing I am posting is a criticism of your progress. You have been losing almost two pounds a week to make that much progress. You are doing very well.

You asked for input, so I provided some ways to optimize things. So long as you are still doing two pounds a week, there is no reason to adopt anything I have suggested, although I would still recommend diet and cardiovascular exercise changes just looking out for health, not just cutting weight.

If your progress slows down or stalls, then there are plenty of suggestions above by me and egruberman to get it going again.

One last thing - if you want muscle, I would follow the recommendations that both of us made about increasing protein and tracking. Higher protein diets come out better in the end in terms of body composition. This has been proven over and over in studies, and higher is better.

Protein is not high calorie, only 4 calories per gram (watch the fats that might come along with the protein, though!), and even that four calories is not true, because to be used as energy protein must go through a metabolically expensive process, which means some of that four calories is burned just converting it (costs roughly 1.32 calories, so leaves only 3.68 calories of the original 4).

I never get offended, I’m here to learn and lose, I’m all for it. Reading the rest now.

 

[BeardedGuy]

D

BeardedGuy, please be aware that nothing I am posting is a criticism of your progress. You have been losing almost two pounds a week to make that much progress. You are doing very well.

You asked for input, so I provided some ways to optimize things. So long as you are still doing two pounds a week, there is no reason to adopt anything I have suggested, although I would still recommend diet and cardiovascular exercise changes just looking out for health, not just cutting weight.

If your progress slows down or stalls, then there are plenty of suggestions above by me and egruberman to get it going again.

One last thing - if you want muscle, I would follow the recommendations that both of us made about increasing protein and tracking. Higher protein diets come out better in the end in terms of body composition. This has been proven over and over in studies, and higher is better.

Protein is not high calorie, only 4 calories per gram (watch the fats that might come along with the protein, though!), and even that four calories is not true, because to be used as energy protein must go through a metabolically expensive process, which means some of that four calories is burned just converting it (costs roughly 1.32 calories, so leaves only 3.68 calories of the original 4).

protein is king. I order double protein for my meals whenever I can.
I really gotta start tracking/weighing. That seems to be key.
And I’ll up the cardio intensity. It’s probably time to shake up the routine anyway.

 

[egruberman]

protein is king. I order double protein for my meals whenever I can.
I really gotta start tracking/weighing. That seems to be key.
And I’ll up the cardio intensity. It’s probably time to shake up the routine anyway

“double protein” could also introduce a lot more fat calories into your diet. Exercise caution.

With regard to glycolysis vs. lipolysis during cardio. A kilojoule is a kilojoule. Here’s an interesting tidbit: a kilojoule is roughly equivalent to 4 calories. The human body is roughly 25% efficient. So a 1 kilojoule of work is roughly equivalent to 1 calorie burned.

In any case, a deficit is really what matters. Lower intensity cardio (z2) is nice because it’s easy to recover from, provides good cardiovascular benefit consumes any FFA that may be floating around, and improves mitochondrial efficiency.

Z2 should be somewhat taxing however. One should be able to maintain a conversation, but barely so. That’s the best estimate of z2 barring a power meter or pace for an experienced runner.

Higher intensity cardio is great for VO2Max. So, get some. However I wouldn’t trade it for Z2 volume. It also can have the side effect of depleting glycogen and stimulating hunger. Probably not an issue for one on a GLP1-RA

 

[Eddie.]

Welcome aboard and good luck on reaching your goals.

I have somewhat the same experience, i'm training religiously for 21 years (36 now) but for many many years i was just permabulking. I love bodybuilding meals like chicken n rice but i love junk food too. I want it all, i was eating 4 clean meals and in the night i was binge eating like 2-3K extra calories from burgers and stuff on top of my meals.

Same height with you and 310lbs at my heaviest. 4 years ago i decided to make a change once and for all. Last summer i reached 210 at my lowest and currently i'm at 240 after off season and just before starting a cutting phase again.

I hated cardio and still do, i'm doing a little only when i'm cutting. I'm a big advocate of steps. If you want to lose fat, steps is your friend. In your weight i would never consider doing any sort of high pulse cardiovascular exercise. At 310 even fast walking on incline treadmill would make my low back, knees and shin suffer (i guess the heart too).

Yes, high(er) intensity cardio is very good for the heart only if yours can handle it. You can always do cardio AFTER you reach a healthy bodyweight.

In your weight 1000 steps burn something like 60-65 calories. If you're already doing 5-6K and eventually add 10K more you will have an extra 600kcal deficit. Sad thing with this is that it takes time, sometimes more than 60-90 minutes total per day. If you make it habit to be more active through the day and go outside 2 times from 30-45 minutes each it's gonna be nice. Put your headphones on listen to some music or podcast you'll enjoy it.

I switched job lately and this one is very physical, i'm doing 22000 - 25000 steps per day and i've added 1-2 extra big meals per week (like 3000kcal each) and my bodyweight doesn't moved at all. This shows the efficacy of extra steps.

This was me before and after. On before pic i'm not even at my heaviest..this pic i think i'm around 290.

Wish you the best on your journey.

 

[malfeasance]

now I’m stuck at 315…

I did not realize from the above that you were stuck. How long have you been stuck at 315?

If it is a week, maybe not a big deal. If it is longer, than you need to make some changes.

It sounds like you do not have very good control over your diet. No tracking, and you "order" food.

If you prepare your own food you know exactly what is in it, making it easier to track. Consider maybe meal prepping and bringing food in coolers.

"Double meat" can be anything and usually consists of processed meat (not good) or higher fat meet, like fried chicken. It makes me think of Subway. Like I get "double meat" tuna sometimes, but given the fat content with all of the mayonnaise and whatever else, I would not eat that if I was cutting.

Ugh. I just looked it up. Even without ordering double meat, the tuna sub is 49% of calories from fat. It has to be way higher if ordering double. LOL, no wonder it tastes so good, but to be honest I have not eaten one in years.

I pack food when traveling.

Maybe you should look into it.

A piece of fish, rice, and some veggies.

Chopped up grilled chicken breast with sugar free Baby Ray's BBQ sauce, some rice, and some peas.

Packed with each meal in individual containers and stuck in a large cooler if you are driving.

If traveling by plane do not bring liquids. Bring a large water bottle and empty it out before going through TSA security and you can fill it for free after you get inside the secure zone.

There are ways to do it if you are serious about reaching your goals. Take a read at the link below for how serious folks do it:

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Shop our wide selection of supplements including protein powder, pre workout, vitamins, BCAAs, and more with free shipping on qualified orders!

www.bodybuilding.com

"Do the math: If you're carrying ingredients for a few days, you'll have to calculate the food you'll need while traveling. For example, say you need 5 ounces of cooked chicken for four meals a day across a four-day trip. That equals 5 pounds of cooked chicken. That sounds like a lot to carry, but a vacuum sealer can make it pretty small. Consider investing in one."

 

[BeardedGuy]

Lots of great advice here. Sounds like it’s time to take the next steps. Harder cardio, total food/menu control. No need to add any magic pills yet, just get the last pieces in place and get to the next plateau… thanks guys!

 

[malfeasance]

even that four calories is not true, because to be used as energy protein must go through a metabolically expensive process, which means some of that four calories is burned just converting it (costs roughly 1.32 calories, so leaves only 3.68 calories of the original 4).

Those of you who can do math probably figured out that the answer is 2.68 calories, not 3.68 . . .