Low dose nandrolone - how low can you go?

[Deleted member 123722]

I ran 600mg nandrolone solo along time ago. Wasn’t a bad cycle but my E2 was a 7 at five weeks in so I added dbol. I was telling you before to get your E2 checked or add a little dbol. I also had no water retention just like you.

Yes, I remember you telling me. However, at 1gram the conversion of 20% to Estrogen will put me at normal levels, so they say. But at least we both know the Deca bloat is a myth lol.

 

[HKOX]

I definitely feel like npp on top of trt reduces my bloat.

 

[All Nats McGee]

Yes, I remember you telling me. However, at 1gram the conversion of 20% to Estrogen will put me at normal levels, so they say. But at least we both know the Deca bloat is a myth lol.

That 20% number is way off. MPMD had a good segment in one of his videos on this. Can’t remember the video but it’s not close to that number more like 5-10%. Everyone I see that does solo nandrolone has came back pretty low.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

That 20% number is way off. MPMD had a good segment in one of his videos on this. Can’t remember the video but it’s not close to that number more like 5-10%. Everyone I see that does solo nandrolone has came back pretty low.

What dose of Dbol if I do add it?

 

[Bumpygooch]

At about 700mg/wk deca, the mental sides were brutal, obsessive thought patterns, bizarre shit. Odd, because at 550mg/week NPP, I felt none of that. Same compound, different ester, shouldn’t be, however, it was.

 

[All Nats McGee]

What dose of Dbol if I do add it?

Eh 2.5-10mg dbol or maybe a touch of hcg. The essiest would be just 50mg of test once a week.

 

[Type-IIx]

That 20% number is way off. MPMD had a good segment in one of his videos on this. Can’t remember the video but it’s not close to that number more like 5-10%. Everyone I see that does solo nandrolone has came back pretty low.

If you can link to any deca only bloodwork, I'd be very interested!

 

[Girth]

Agree with all here on the low dose of around 100mg/wk for joint pain. Most "too stubborn to quit" athletes love that dose. I worry less about the cardio sides than I do the mental ones.

Too many guys have a hard time with depression post 19-nor. And the depression can lead to fixes that are anything but healthy.

 

[All Nats McGee]

If you can link to any deca only bloodwork, I'd be very interested!

Here’s my bloodwork at 600mg no hgh. I know it says I have test in my system but this test picked up the nandrolone. I was also using E2 cream at the time but it obviously didn’t work after looking at this lol this was done back in 2016. Very surprising bloodwork lol

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Here’s my bloodwork at 600mg no hgh. I know it says I have test in my system but this test picked up the nandrolone. I was also using E2 cream at the time but it obviously didn’t work after looking at this lol this was done back in 2016. Very surprising bloodwork lol
View attachment 156636

I thought Deca wouldn't come up as test

 

[Ironman580]

At about 700mg/wk deca, the mental sides were brutal, obsessive thought patterns, bizarre shit. Odd, because at 550mg/week NPP, I felt none of that. Same compound, different ester, shouldn’t be, however, it was.

No fukin way that’s from deca man- u guys put this shit in your head man

 

[Bumpygooch]

No fukin way that’s from deca man- u guys put this shit in your head man

That’s possible, however, I experienced it prior to reading about it. Went away about a month after I stopped deca. Ran a blast since with 550 prop, 350NPP and 350 mast….no issues. Occam’s razor says it was the deca. Fuck nandrolone, anyway, shit drug, did nothing for joints, either. Test/primo/GH for me at 48 now.

 

[Rottendog]

I thought Deca wouldn't come up as test

LC/MS/MS it will not.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

LC/MS/MS it will not.

So how is his bloods over 1500 if just deca 600mg a week? lol

 

[Pineapples4Puss]

This is interesting. I've been researching the published science and there's very little about the mechanism behind the reported joint pain benefits. It does seem real though, at least according to the literature.

It's quite common for climbers to have painful fingers though. It's not an issue for a rheumatologist.

I noticed improved joint pain as well. But I believe it’s just the extra nitrogen /nutrient and water retention from the deca.

 

[Type-IIx]

@All Nats McGee thanks! Establishes that 600mg actually maintained a low-normal E2 (not too bad really), and there is enough aromatization to increase serum IGF-I at that dose. Good stuff.

 

[Cashton]

I was pondering adding it to a cycle of 125mg test per week and 25-50mg Anavar a day for performance enhancement without significant muscle gain. I didn't really want to make this into a "what should I take" thread though. I was more interested in tapping peoples experiences and discussing the science if that makes sense?

125mg isn’t a cycle, that’s a replacement dose, though if you’re older, that may be enough for you to get that pep back in ya’ step, also the 25mg of anavar addition would be like a normal trt clinic offering.. how old are you? Plan to just stay on?

 

[All Nats McGee]

@All Nats McGee thanks! Establishes that 600mg actually maintained a low-normal E2 (not too bad really), and there is enough aromatization to increase serum IGF-I at that dose. Good stuff.

Unfortunately I wish this was true. But my previous igf-1 numbers were all 50 points higher then this test. This test I also used a E2 cream. So it’s unknown how much of that E2 is from the nandrolone.

 

[Type-IIx]

OK, I will contribute a bit more to this thread since @All Nats McGee contributed so well.

For relief of joint pain from nandolone, there are two primary mechanisms by which nandrolone may elicit relief: increased collagen deposition in synovial joints, or synovial joint fluid retention.

A lot of research on AAS such as nandrolone, stanozolol, oxandrolone, tends to show increases in some markers of general collagen synthesis.

All we'd really care about for this particular matter, is either direct measures on human synovial joints of collagen deposition, or perhaps a single relevant marker, specifically procollagen Type III N-terminal propeptide (PIIINP) which is a marker of interstitial fibril biosynthesis in soft tissues. There's evidence with rhGH on increased PIIINP activity, but so far as I can tell, it's never been measured in humans with nandrolone.

There are various other collagen markers, basically, type I and type II collagen, bone ALP, these are useless for this matter. These reflect osteoblastic bone formation, soft tissue turnover, and are more likely (i.e., stanozolol) to demonstrate skin fibroblast activity rather than synovial joint activity.

From what I can gather from the non-human evidence so far published on this, the system that nandrolone is likely to function through to effect both increased collagen deposition in synovial joints and synovial joint fluid retention is the RAS (renin-angiotensin system).

Both mechanisms (increased collagen production in i.e. flexor tendon) and synovial joint fluid retention may be positively acted upon by the renin-angiotensin system (RAS). The RAS regulates water and electrolyte balance, connective tissue cell growth, and the metabolism of loose and dense connective tissue and sites of tissue repair [1]. Pathologically, RAS activation increases vascoconstriction, cardiac hypertrophy, and fibrosis (resulting in myocardial infarction, fibrosis of the liver) [1]. Therefore, it is important to consider the duality of the potential joint (i.e., knee extensor tendon) augmentation while on nandrolone: you may have a transient benefit in tendon remodeling (i.e., extensor tendon), but via this same mechanism, may be accruing fibrotic or cardiac/left ventricular maladaptations.

So, to the potential transient benefits: Angiotensin-I converting enzyme (ACE) is a marker positively correlated with collagen type I mRNA activity reflective of deposition of Type I collagen, followed by mineralization and maturation during which stable cross-links are formed between collagen fibrils, and may reflect ECM remodeling wherein collagen synthesis outstrips degradation.

Whereas AAS generally decrease matrix metalloproteases (MMP), collagen gene expression, nandrolone increases ACE activity and increases matrix type I collagen deposition. The results of [1] showed Nand + jump training >> Nand > jump training > sedentary in ACE activity in tendon (i.e., knee extensor). Consider, however, that this same pathway is implicated in cardiac tissue remodeling and pathological action.

References:
[1] Marqueti, R. de C., Hashimoto, N. Y., Durigan, J. L. Q., Batista e Silva, L. L., Almeida, J. A. de, Silva, M. da G. da, … Araújo, H. S. S. de. (2015). Nandrolone increases angiotensin-I converting enzyme activity in rats tendons. Revista Brasileira de Medicina Do Esporte, 21(3), 173–177. doi:10.1590/1517-869220152103143667

 

[Theworm]

No fukin way that’s from deca man- u guys put this shit in your head man

I’ve been running stuff for decades now and believe me, I ran deca only and I was almost suicidal, the obsessive thoughts about spouses past relationships (many others claim this too) was so severe I cannot even begin to explain. I couldn’t sleep, Work etc, and thought only way out was to jump off a bridge. Crazy ass stuff. Took two years to slowly resolve. But so scary I’ll nevrr run it above 400 and never without test.