low test 6 months post cycle. PLEASE HELP

[EcpertRealistic]

Your libido won't be the best if your high prolactin is making your brain think your are a pregnant female. Caber should help to lower your prolactin, just don't overdo it.

Wonder what might be causing your prolactin problems. If it's caused by a supplement it should be temporary as long as you can pinpoint and discontinue it's use.


Energy might be due to low test. Zma supplements can help increase your testosterone without side effects(as long as you don't abuse them).
You should feel better if you can get on the 700s

 

[Bux]

Your libido won't be the best if your high prolactin is making your brain think your are a pregnant female. Caber should help to lower your prolactin, just don't overdo it.
Wonder what might be causing your prolactin problems. If it's caused by a supplement it should be temporary as long as you can pinpoint and discontinue it's use.


Energy might be due to low test. Zma supplements can help increase your testosterone without side effects(as long as you don't abuse them).
You should feel better if you can get on the 700s

I'm Skeptical about prolactin being the issue, I realize by the ref range it seems to be a good bit high but as another post on here mentioned it' probably not enough to be my issue. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but a tumor or anything similar produce x1000 the ref range. From what I understand caber will only help as long as I'm taking it and levels will return when it' discontinued. I'm not taking any supplements at the moment not was I at the time of bw.

The studies I've read on zma seem to say it is only helpful if i have a zinc deficiency. However its worth looking into.

I definitely agree that "low t is the source of my fatigue. Low e2 wouldn't be the cause of this would it? I was of the understanding that it only suppressed t when its high??

 

[Bux]

For future reference, get hormone blood draws in the morning (7-9am) ... unless you are a night worker and 13:58 is your morning (ask doctor about timing)

That aside, E2 is low (depression/energy) and prolactin is high (even more then last time). Prolactin is elevated when dopamine activity to the pituitary is low ... which causes prolactin to rise. It also causes a reduction of GnRH, thus lower T, thus lower E2.

You trial of clomid shows that your whole hypothalamus/pituitary/gonad system actually works. So something is telling the hypothalamus to back off.

Talk to you doc about trying a low dose dopamine agonist. Low dopamine will also cause anxiety and fatigue. There are plenty. Sinemet 100/25 (levodopa/carbadopa) is broad and will lower prolactin. 1/2 pill 2 or 3 time a day would normally be plenty. Cabergoline is very strong and targeted to D2 (the type of receptor involved here) and 1/2 pill a week will probably put you below normal - overkill. Note: dopamine agonists are generally pro-sexual.

Do you have RLS or ADD type symptoms? Wellbutrin SR is an antidepressant that works with dopamine. If the doc gives you that, then start with just 1/2 pill in the morning. Wellbutrin also directly stimulate NE which can increase anxiety (no fun).

At any rate, this is an angle to try. Ask for just 1 week trial if they are reluctant. This type of thing works quickly. Why you have (if you have) dopamine weakness now is not known. It is possible that 2a 3a-epithio 17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane was toxic to your dopamine system. Or could be a coincidence.

Thank you for the info!! A lot to consider. I do have a lot of the symptoms of add, I was diagnosed when I was a kid just like every other that couldn' focus so take that with a grain of salt. Time management has become a HUGE issue for me, I've never had that problem. Forgetfulness and a few other symptoms could be blamed on multiple other things ( nasty tbi in a motorcycle accident a couple years ago).

Is there anyway the Clomid may have effect things to drop even lower after coming off? I was scared that was a sign I'm primary since my levels dropped back off.


I'm by no means an expert so please chime in if I'm incorrect about something. I appreciate everyone' help.

 

[Old]

Your prolactin is just an indicator of dopamine signaling ... not high to indicate a tumor.

TBI often lower testosterone. It also can have negative impact on dopamine system since it is less robust than other systems. With a cycle accident, you would have had a focal (localized) injury. What part was hurt? Do you have symptoms residue from it?

Low dopamine causes same issues as low T. Dopamine levels affect T levels and androgens, estrogen, progestrogen all affect brain function including dopamine levels and the GABA system. So its all loop-dee-loop.

You had partial improvement when T was up from Clomid, so hormones are involved. Fatigue is a difficult one to isolate and resolve. Mono is also problem. Also, anxiety and poor sleep will raise prolactin too.

It is unlikely that Clomid has harmed you (T production, etc). As far as the dopamine hypothosis, you'll just have to keep trying doctors until one is willing to do a simple trial. Perhaps the endo. Rarely a neurologist (most are unflexable). Your primary might help if he is compasionate, and the most likely is Wellbutrin SR since it is an antidepressant and docs hand them out like candy. Just keep trying.

If you are truly bipolar and OCD, they are their own issue. Just be cautious since docs like to blame undiagnosed neurological issues as psychological. A good CBT therapist is useful and will ultimately clarify any diagnosis - be sure to try to find a good one.

 

[Bux]

I've seem a couple different neurologist recently that seemed to believe the tbi wasn' the source of the issue however I didn' receive the follow up medical treatment afterword that I should have. My initial bloodwork was taken a year after the accident so I'm inclined to believe that' not the issue. As far as residual sympoms though, memory is not nearly what it was, multitasking is difficult and initially I couldn' be awake for more than a few hours at a time without falling asleep mid conversation. Energy levels got back to normal within about 5 or 6 weeks. I actually started with a neurologist after my prmary care.

Stress levels were definitely high the day I had my most recent bloods done.(i do work night shift and long hours, but it never bothered me pre cycle) Obsessive thoughts have wrecked my anxiety but is getting better now that I'm taking lamictal to get that under control. I see a cbt regularly and also have a good psychiatrist who seems to be very interested in the horomonal componet and the potential effects it may be having, its just not her field. I haven't been on meds of any kind in about 8 years, I've coped very well and t here just hasn't been a need. The symptoms (anxiety, obsessive thoughts, depression) have been drastically magnified since the cycle though is the primary reason I bring that up.

I'm doing my best to find am old thread I ran across months ago. It had several guys who mentioned botching pct and not recovering for 6 months plus, but after a second cycle of test the recovered much closer to heir original baseline. I definitely don't want to screw myself any further, & I'm not even sure how such results are possible short of having a second try at "resetting" a system that is just unbalanced nstead of damaged. If it comes down to trt as a last resort I'd considered giving this a try down the road if all else fails.

Your prolactin is just an indicator of dopamine signaling ... not high to indicate a tumor.

TBI often lower testosterone. It also can have negative impact on dopamine system since it is less robust than other systems. With a cycle accident, you would have had a focal (localized) injury. What part was hurt? Do you have symptoms residue from it?

Low dopamine causes same issues as low T. Dopamine levels affect T levels and androgens, estrogen, progestrogen all affect brain function including dopamine levels and the GABA system. So its all loop-dee-loop.

You had partial improvement when T was up from Clomid, so hormones are involved. Fatigue is a difficult one to isolate and resolve. Mono is also problem. Also, anxiety and poor sleep will raise prolactin too.

It is unlikely that Clomid has harmed you (T production, etc). As far as the dopamine hypothosis, you'll just have to keep trying doctors until one is willing to do a simple trial. Perhaps the endo. Rarely a neurologist (most are unflexable). Your primary might help if he is compasionate, and the most likely is Wellbutrin SR since it is an antidepressant and docs hand them out like candy. Just keep trying.

If you are truly bipolar and OCD, they are their own issue. Just be cautious since docs like to blame undiagnosed neurological issues as psychological. A good CBT therapist is useful and will ultimately clarify any diagnosis - be sure to try to find a good one.

 

[Bux]

Very happy to report my most recent labs came back and I was pleasantly surprised.. t came back at 813. Don't have the rest of the results, this was left on my voicemail. Prolactin was in normal range as well as everything else but I wasn't Given specific numbers This was taken at 9am fasted. Only only thing that was at the bottom of normal range was vitiman d. No clue what the specific range for that is. I suspect stress has been a big culprit. My medication has finally started to help, I credit that for the reduced stress despite having work 7 days/80 hours the week before. For anyone interested I can ask for the results to post later on. Pretty much all my symptoms have changed for the better, I think symptoms of bipolar may have overlapped and made this more confusing than it should have been. I greatly appreciate everyones advice and support. Definotely natural training from here on out.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Very happy to report my most recent labs came back and I was pleasantly surprised.. t came back at 813. Don't have the rest of the results, this was left on my voicemail. Prolactin was in normal range as well as everything else but I wasn't Given specific numbers This was taken at 9am fasted. Only only thing that was at the bottom of normal range was vitiman d. No clue what the specific range for that is. I suspect stress has been a big culprit. My medication has finally started to help, I credit that for the reduced stress despite having work 7 days/80 hours the week before. For anyone interested I can ask for the results to post later on. Pretty much all my symptoms have changed for the better, I think symptoms of bipolar may have overlapped and made this more confusing than it should have been. I greatly appreciate everyones advice and support. Definotely natural training from here on out.

Congrats

How you made it ??

Any tricks?? : - )

Share the knowledge

 

[Bux]

Honestly I'm still confused, my only assumption is stress was wrecking my levels & my ed symptoms may have been due to that same as well as psychological. Between all the other health issues I've had since cycle it' hard to say exactly what my symptoms were from considering they overlap so may places.

From what I understand prolactin can be raised by stress as well? I hope this thread can be used as a lesson to many others so they don' have to suffer the same. I' just not one one the lucky ones to be able to cycle and recover easily. It took me a year.

I do however believe long term Clomid use at a lower dose is the best option vs high doses for 6 weeks imo.

Congrats

How you made it ??

Any tricks?? : - )

Share the knowledge

 

[MaxTheMonster]

Thanks for the reply. Trt is a last resort, i wouldnt even consider it unless my levels drop to the point where i cant function. I have NO desire to cycle again. Would a 6 week cycle of clomid at a higher dose be worth a shot like i should have immediatly post cycle before i try it at a long term dose or is it just to late for that?
Another thing i havent been able to come to a definitive answer on is testicular atrophy and shut down. I had some on cycle but nothing major. Sense then the boy have hung low 90% of the time without much sensitivity to temp like i used to be. Is this a sign they are somewhat functional and these are the levels im stuck with? It seems every other thread i ha e read with my symptoms, it has been accompanied by severe testicular atrophy.

There is no sense in walking around with levels in the 300s. I would try high dose clomid or HCG. That's your best bet in being brought back. But there is no need to go UGL. Best bet is to shop around. Many docs will prescribe HRT for those levels. I would go in and tell them you have low t symptoms and want to keep fertility. They will then give you pharma grade clomid or hcg mono therapy. A good doc will blast that dose up.