MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[mands]

Fully agree with this @mands, at least when it comes to this board. In general though most people do not like believing something they pay a lot for is crap versus something cheap. It is easier for most to believe a $50 bottle of ugl test e is bunk or under dosed versus a $300 kit of GH. The more you pay the harder it is for us to accept that we have been taken to the cleaners. Hell, I'm guilty of this even though I acknowledge it...lol

I think you are correct! I myself want to believe that what we are given is accurate and dosed properly.

I have believed for a long time there are UGL's out there providing good generic GH. It has been a mission of mine for a long time to find this golden egg. I feel like I'm closer than ever.

We shall see if this Board responds productively or if this whole thread will turn into SHIT.

I'm a gambling man I know what I would bet!

mands

 

[Dr JIM]

Good, I feel much much better about this then.

The statement I made came directly from a post Muscle made on the Biologic thread! Let's put it this way, until I can locate Muscle's post, he openly admitted to having a vested financial interest in PM.

Oh and Grey your posts have been about as objective as is possible considering the circumstances, where very little is an unequivocal proven fact. After all we are talking about the BLACK MARKET ILLEGAL DRUG TRADE which in this instance just so happens to involve the sale of PEDs (rather than rec's like Meth, Cocaine, or Narcotics).

Consequently if anyone believes folk of that ilk are in anyway above reproach, they need their head examined since the very nature of such "businesses" are based on a LIE!

 

[muscle96ss]

The statement I made came directly from a post Muscle made on the Biologic thread! Let's put it this way until I can locate Muscle's post he openly admitted to having a vested financial interest in PM.

Can't wait to see this!!!!

 

[muscle96ss]

Karl doesn't want anything to do with this board because he has been outed as a piece of shit here over and over and over again.

After you and Karl left last time there were GH serum and igf1 tests posted on the replacements he sent out showing they were bunk.

You seem to be in pretty tight with Karl and TP.. Why? Last time you were here you made several posts claiming to be pretty successful. Since you have the means, why do you waste time with generics when you know exactly what you're getting with pharm grade?

You only show up here when REAL testing gets done on generics trying awfully hard to discredit the results.

I'm not going to come right out and say you have some kind of financial interest in this but something doesn't add up about you, that's for sure..

For anyone that thinks I have some kind of financial or vested interest in this please understand the following scenario. I am the one that sent the vial of grey tops in that was tested. Now if I am sending something in to be tested and I have a financial interest, then I would be pretty stupid to send in a vial containing 4iu, now wouldn't I?

 

[muscle96ss]

The statement I made came directly from a post Muscle made on the Biologic thread! Let's put it this way, until I can locate Muscle's post, he openly admitted to having a vested financial interest in PM.

Can someone tell me what the Biologic thread is to begin with, so maybe I can help Jim find this quote?

 

[muscle96ss]

Pd knows and your in with him also. While I respect pd and plan to continue using his services, nobody will come to dispute these results.

I myself wonder why igfs are elevated but do not doubt in anyway what has been done here is 100% accurate. I think the elevated igfs just prove how inconsistent genetics are.

Let me ask you and everyone else here; if you are accepting these results are you accepting those results of the lab test that I posted from a very respected member on PM that show that the grey tops contain close to 11iu? So, there are 2 lab tests now, one showing 11iu and one showing 4iu? Do you believe both? Or how do you know which to believe?

And pmac, why would you continue to use PD if you are only getting 4iu per vial of GH? I would never purchase another kit of grey tops from PD or anyone if I truly thought the tests were accurate and contained 4iu. I mean at that price you can get pharma grade for roughly the equivalent price.

 

[Dr JIM]

If they do post up any date they know NOBODY will believe the information is true or accurate. It's a loose loose.

mands

Well that's only true bc of WHAT they have posted previously IME. If I recall correctly even you commented about the discrepancies of K's GH analysis which he posted on the Western Bio thread. (lol) Thx JB

I was particularly troubled by the fact his PEP assay was quite consistent with a 19KD MW compound, yet K chose not to confirm or refute this result via a MS and or an HPLC.

I believe you will also recall we confronted a similar issue while testing samples included on THIS THREAD and we had a MS performed as confirmation. The fact is since many of the samples tested were approximating the discriminatory zone of PAGE we abandoned that test altogether. Even though MS is more expensive, is was used instead bc it's more definitive, having a margin of error of between 20-40 daltons, (compared to almost 1KD for PAGE-PEP)

The fact is the differences between the analyses I conducted on the Biologic GH sample you kindly forwarded my way and that which K cited were the PRIMARY reason I rightfully (IMO) suspected the two data sets originated from two different sources namely; UGL vs Pharmaceutical GH manufacturers.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Can someone tell me what the Biologic thread is to begin with, so maybe I can help Jim find this quote?

I think he means the western bio thread..

 

[muscle96ss]

I think he means the western bio thread..

Got it, thanks!!

 

[readyset]

Let me ask you and everyone else here; if you are accepting these results are you accepting those results of the lab test that I posted from a very respected member on PM that show that the grey tops contain close to 11iu? So, there are 2 lab tests now, one showing 11iu and one showing 4iu? Do you believe both? Or how do you know which to believe?

And pmac, why would you continue to use PD if you are only getting 4iu per vial of GH? I would never purchase another kit of grey tops from PD or anyone if I truly thought the tests were accurate and contained 4iu. I mean at that price you can get pharma grade for roughly the equivalent price.

I'll believe the most recent ones that seem to make the most sense based on all the info I've seen (on multiple boards). If new tests show up, with an equal amount of info, then those will be considered as well.

I'm not sure why it's hard to believe that batches can be inferior or superior as time goes on. These are drug dealers, out to make a buck. I mean we've got a major player in the game saying he's making his own gh. People believe that? It's chinese. I'd put my money on it.

I'm willing to bet that the next batch will be properly dosed after these results, then in a few months well be back to 4iu or less.. it's the wild west.

 

[muscle96ss]

I'll believe the most recent ones that seem to make the most sense based on all the info I've seen (on multiple boards). If new tests show up, with an equal amount of info, then those will be considered as well.

I'm not sure why it's hard to believe that batches can be inferior or superior as time goes on. These are drug dealers, out to make a buck. I mean we've got a major player in the game saying he's making his own gh. People believe that? It's chinese. I'd put my money on it.

I'm willing to bet that the next batch will be properly dosed after these results, then in a few months well be back to 4iu or less.. it's the wild west.

Please explain how I got a 24.3 serum result from a vial from the same kit; which is consistent with all my other grey top tests. I know people are going to say that there are peptides, etc... that can manipulate the tests; but they would have shown up in the protein content on the lab test if that were the case here.

 

[flexhead]

Let me ask you and everyone else here; if you are accepting these results are you accepting those results of the lab test that I posted from a very respected member on PM that show that the grey tops contain close to 11iu? So, there are 2 lab tests now, one showing 11iu and one showing 4iu? Do you believe both? Or how do you know which to believe?

And pmac, why would you continue to use PD if you are only getting 4iu per vial of GH? I would never purchase another kit of grey tops from PD or anyone if I truly thought the tests were accurate and contained 4iu. I mean at that price you can get pharma grade for roughly the equivalent price.

I accept both. I fully believe the results @mands and @Dr JIM posted are legit. I also believe it is possible that you did see or had results for a bottle of Grey tops come back at 11iu's. Above all I think that is the main point. The GH content of generics vary widely and on average overall they are under dosed.

Said that, I think what mands and dr jim have posted are more credible overall because their are derived from many different brands and multiple bottle samples averaged per brand versus a single sample.

Bottom line to me is that overall Generic GH is real but on average under dosed and content varies from bottle to bottle. If you want consistent then Gh parm is the only way to go.

If I missed something, please tell me.

 

[readyset]

Please explain how I got a 24.3 serum result from a vial from the same kit; which is consistent with all my other grey top tests. I know people are going to say that there are peptides, etc... that can manipulate the tests; but they would have shown up in the protein content on the lab test if that were the case here.

I cant. I just believe that serums aren't a strong indication of anything except the presence of gh. Everyone is different in how they'll respond.

It's also possible that vial was good, that kit was good, maybe the next isn't. It's just inconsistant. Igf is better, but even then who knows what's doing what with guys like use who are injecting 3 4 5 compounds per day.

 

[Dr JIM]

That's an interesting point but I do believe once the more difficult aspect of GH production has been conquered (ensuring the MW, sequence and correct number of AA) the next step quantification is comparatively easy.

I mean the manufacturer is either going to include their high grade "pure" product or CUT the amount of that high grade product, to increase profits. (And cutting a product in half could double one's profit from each vial)

To fill vials with inactive peps or proteins just doesn't make sense if legit GH is available bc it's only a matter of time before customers rightfully conclude their "GH"is pure bunk.

However if they only decrease the QUANTITY of their good stuff, they can and HAVE informed customers of this often used excuse: Look dude "everyone is different" and some folk just need higher GH dosages to achieve benefit "we suggest TEN IU"!

Now where have I heard that advice before!!!!

 

[muscle96ss]

This is the point of contention and we would have been better served by skipping all the extraneous nonsense and getting right to it. As I stated in my previous reply, all the data needed to verify the chemist's summary can be found in the HPLC report. You just don't realize it because you don't know how to read the report. Find a chemist and show him the data. He will be able to look it and tell you within minutes if the math is correct. Until then you are chasing phantoms.

In the test you are comparing the UV absorbance to a standard. We don't know the data of the standard. Can you provide the following for me; the total number of iu's of the standard, was it diluted in the exact same method as the other samples were, and lastly what were the areas at 210 and 280nm.

I don't understand why this is like extracting teeth and has to be so secretive. Isn't this supposed to be an educational experience for all? Why not work with me to help me understand. If the results actually say what you are saying they do, I have no problem admitting it and will gladly join your side of the argument. Hell, I don't want to waste my time using 4iu of GH where I am think I am using 10iu. But I am pretty sure that when we get down to it and verify the data you are going to come across with egg on your face. Why don't you prove me wrong and help me understand the data better so we can end this roundabout argument. Right now very few people believe these tests; if you can prove the data to me, then I am pretty sure everyone will believe it. Why not take me up on that challenge?

 

[ProfessorX]

Please explain how I got a 24.3 serum result from a vial from the same kit; which is consistent with all my other grey top tests. I know people are going to say that there are peptides, etc... that can manipulate the tests; but they would have shown up in the protein content on the lab test if that were the case here.

Are you saying that the LabCorp GH Serum test can determine the mg/IU in the vial being injected?

Doesn't the LabCorp read a range of GH Proteins:
22k+D (191aa)
20k+D (176aa)
Etc...

So given the natural "random" Endogenous GH "pulse" combined with the injected Exogenous GH.....can the results pinpoint mg/IU of the injected GH?

Sorry if I'm totally off base here

 

[Dr JIM]

I have absolutely NO IDEA how you came to that conclusion?

 

[ProfessorX]

I have absolutely NO IDEA how you came to that conclusion?

So the LabCorp GH Serum test CAN determine the "potency" ?

I was under the impression he was saying his 24.3 ng/mL result was showing over 4ius in the vial.

 

[Dr JIM]

A good example is the ability of different antibiotics against certain bacterial infections.

So the LabCorp GH Serum test CAN determine the "potency" ?

I was under the impression he was saying his 24.3 ng/mL result was showing over 4ius in the vial.

Potency is primarily a measure of a substances efficacy from a clinical perspective and as such is not necessarily a reflection of that compounds concentration or in-vitro or in-vivo "purity".

Again I have no idea who "he or his vial" is!

My earlier post was only a generality and was NOT a comparison to specific individuals whom may have posted on Meso.

 

[ProfessorX]

A good example is the ability of different antibiotics against certain bacterial infections.


Potency is primarily a measure of a substances efficacy from a clinical perspective and as such is not necessarily a reflection of that compounds concentration or in-vitro or in-vivo "purity".

Again I have no idea who "he or his vial" is!

My earlier post was only a generality and was NOT a comparison to specific individuals whom may have posted on Meso.

Yep...I understand

My comment was in reference to member 'Muscle96SS' (he...his vial)

He seems to be confident with the GH Serum data

Using Blood Serum Vs a calibrated "machine" to determine quality/quantity of a GH Product.....well.