MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[muscle96ss]

No one here disputes this. The problem is that the second it leaves a "legit" GH production facility it enters a long, long, looooooooong, supply chain of criminals who sell to the rest of us criminal consumers.

These resellers etc, have every incentive in the world to dilute these products as far as they think they can get away with. That is the common sense.

The unusual outcome requiring the highest proof burden is the crazy scenario where all of these criminals have hearts of gold and only pass along the purest unstepped on, unadulterated, un-outright-faked product because... doggone it, people like them.

How do you dilute a lypholized puck? At least with the grey tops, when you order international, they are shipped direct from the factory that produces them; so nobody has a chance to step on them. The way I order them through a domestic remailer, he is the only person to touch them before they get to my hands; and I know him well enough to trust him. However, I understand, establishing that type of relationship takes time and is hard to come by.

 

[ProfessorX]

Two things:

1: The FONT used for the numbers for MG

2: None of the GH results were exactly as labeled (ex. 1.33mgs/4.0 IUs)

So you have to question the "product promoting -Hygetropin" that the article is really doing.

It's a great advertisement for Hygetropin

Just a bit shady

 

[grey]

At least with the grey tops, when you order international, they are shipped direct from the factory that produces them

How the heck would you verify something like that? Documents? Paper, images, holograms are all so easily faked that they are meaningless.

How do you dilute a lypholized puck?

Haven't a clue. What I do know is that people are amazingly creative about coming up with new ways to make money through cheating.

The way I order them through a domestic remailer, he is the only person to touch them before they get to my hands

Again, how the hell is that verifiable? Even if it was you have just now inserted a minimum of one criminal into the chain. The vast majority of people buying HGH would be ecstatic to get the supply chain down to one criminal but never will be able to.

I know him well enough to trust him

So, you have no verification of this at all. You are basing it entirely off your faith in this single supplier. That is cool man, and very glad you have him, but serves the point of this discussion in no way shape or form.

 

[muscle96ss]

I don't think anyone is every going to be able to produce any evidence that will satisfy you. It is good to be skeptical and untrusting to an extent. But you have to use experience, knowledge, and your instincts to make decisions when there are strong arguments to both sides of the coin. I have tried to share my experience and knowledge but I understand that there are many that will not agree with me.

 

[grey]

It is good to be skeptical and untrusting to an extent.

Dude, I hear ya, but all I have seen here is an amazing level of credulity from you.

Only tests that are positive are believed, all tests that are negative are disbelieved.

This is illegal drug testing and for some reason you have chosen to place your faith in drug dealers with profit motive over folks doing testing with no skin in the game.

I am very glad that your experience with your supplier chain has been good (seriously, that is super cool). That is the unicorn everybody wants and you have found it. Be very pleased with that as it is not the norm.

Hell this was why I was fucking floored by the first set of results Millard came back with for European sourced AAS. Totally the opposite of expectations.

Not what Mands/Jim's testing has shown though, and they have zero skin in the game for low results. None.

 

[Colt44]

How do you dilute a lypholized puck? At least with the grey tops, when you order international, they are shipped direct from the factory that produces them; so nobody has a chance to step on them. The way I order them through a domestic remailer, he is the only person to touch them before they get to my hands; and I know him well enough to trust him. However, I understand, establishing that type of relationship takes time and is hard to come by.

Sounds like an infomercial

 

[BigPharma]

How do you dilute a lypholized puck? At least with the grey tops, when you order international, they are shipped direct from the factory that produces them; so nobody has a chance to step on them. The way I order them through a domestic remailer, he is the only person to touch them before they get to my hands; and I know him well enough to trust him. However, I understand, establishing that type of relationship takes time and is hard to come by.

I get grey tops and I get a unlabled vial(authenticity stickers and labels on the side) with powder not Lypholized puck. Should I suspect fake???

 

[grey]

(authenticity stickers and labels on the side)

Darius loves those!

 

[hotdog23]

I get grey tops and I get a unlabled vial(authenticity stickers and labels on the side) with powder not Lypholized puck. Should I suspect fake???

Not neccesarily. Puck is for safety of the medicine. It all should be in puck if it's in a vial. Cartridges are different. But no doesn't mean fake

Dude, I hear ya, but all I have seen here is an amazing level of credulity from you.

Only tests that are positive are believed, all tests that are negative are disbelieved.

This is illegal drug testing and for some reason you have chosen to place your faith in drug dealers with profit motive over folks doing testing with no skin in the game.

I am very glad that your experience with your supplier chain has been good (seriously, that is super cool). That is the unicorn everybody wants and you have found it. Be very pleased with that as it is not the norm.

Hell this was why I was fucking floored by the first set of results Millard came back with for European sourced AAS. Totally the opposite of expectations.

Not what Mands/Jim's testing has shown though, and they have zero skin in the game for low results. None.

How much GH do you run and for how long have you used it? Which suppliers/brands? Blood work?

 

[grey]

How much GH do you run and for how long have you used it? Which suppliers/brands? Blood work?

@hotdog23

None at all... Totally zero. So my first hand experience with this market is precisely: Dick.

That was why I said I have no idea how to dilute medicine sold as pucks. Because I don't have any idea how. I also have no clue how you cut cocaine, but it is an undisputed fact that it gets cut. Every time. Because it is sold by drug dealing criminals to drugs using criminals who have little recourse.

My argument is simply regarding illegal drug sales chains in general being approached from a position of skepticism rather than credulity.

Taking the opposite approach to me seems highly counter intuitive.

Given the first hand accounts from the folks here who have actually been drug dealers in the past and have no reason to lie now, if there was a way to pass on cut product, they took advantage of it.

What are the customers going to do? File a complaint with the BBB?

If there are counter arguments describing why these sales should be approached from the credulous position rather than the incredulous, I welcome the opportunity to hear them.

Seriously, would love to know.

 

[muscle96ss]

I get grey tops and I get a unlabled vial(authenticity stickers and labels on the side) with powder not Lypholized puck. Should I suspect fake???

I have never seen real chinese GH(especially grey tops) in loose powder. I would be highly suspect as something doesn't sound right. This actually sounds like a situation where somebody in the chain of command pulled a switch.

 

[muscle96ss]

Dude, I hear ya, but all I have seen here is an amazing level of credulity from you.

Only tests that are positive are believed, all tests that are negative are disbelieved.

This is illegal drug testing and for some reason you have chosen to place your faith in drug dealers with profit motive over folks doing testing with no skin in the game.

I am very glad that your experience with your supplier chain has been good (seriously, that is super cool). That is the unicorn everybody wants and you have found it. Be very pleased with that as it is not the norm.

Hell this was why I was fucking floored by the first set of results Millard came back with for European sourced AAS. Totally the opposite of expectations.

Not what Mands/Jim's testing has shown though, and they have zero skin in the game for low results. None.

Just like you are skeptical of things I say without evidence; why should I not be skeptical when my request for evidence is denied? Even more-so is the fact that the evidence could be very easily supplied by Dr. Jim, yet he refuses.

When we did testing several years ago at PM with an independent lab, one of the criteria was that the whole process needed to be transparent to be meaningful. Part of that was that the technician who performed the test was available by phone to anyone who had any questions of any nature. I don't want to speak to the technician, I just want to understand what specifically was done step by step to come up with these numbers. In fact I know someone whom with this information can easily verify that it is correct or point out the error. Why is it so hard for Dr. Jim to post the methodology with the actual data? I honestly don't believe that Dr. Jim faked the tests or did anything intentionally wrong. I do believe however that there is an oversight in the calculations. I am not the only one who believes this, so I don't understand why there is so much resistance if in fact the truth is what we are after.

 

[grey]

When we did testing several years ago at PM with an independent lab

So the basic of the argument is that the PM testing was superior and should trump this recent round?

If so, that is fine. Not really anyway to argue it.

You have picked your set of believed tests.

I believe both sets.

Half if the tested hormones were as labeled (the PM tests) and half were crap (the ones tested here).

Ergo, shit is inconsistent.

 

[muscle96ss]

So the basic of the argument is that the PM testing was superior and should trump this recent round?

If so, that is fine. Not really anyway to argue it.

You have picked your set of believed tests.

I believe both sets.

Half if the tested hormones were as labeled (the PM tests) and half were crap (the ones tested here).

Ergo, shit is inconsistent.

No, that wasn't even close to my point. I am pointing out what was done in part to prevent any arguments/disagreements like the ones we are having now about the concentration. I don't know why everyone always has to make this into a board versus board thing; we are all here for the same reasons.

 

[hotdog23]

I have never seen real chinese GH(especially grey tops) in loose powder. I would be highly suspect as something doesn't sound right. This actually sounds like a situation where somebody in the chain of command pulled a switch.

I Thought I read a whole batch of somastim was in loose powder but still tested decent.

@hotdog23

None at all... Totally zero. So my first hand experience with this market is precisely: Dick.

That was why I said I have no idea how to dilute medicine sold as pucks. Because I don't have any idea how. I also have no clue how you cut cocaine, but it is an undisputed fact that it gets cut. Every time. Because it is sold by drug dealing criminals to drugs using criminals who have little recourse.

My argument is simply regarding illegal drug sales chains in general being approached from a position of skepticism rather than credulity.

Taking the opposite approach to me seems highly counter intuitive.

Given the first hand accounts from the folks here who have actually been drug dealers in the past and have no reason to lie now, if there was a way to pass on cut product, they took advantage of it.

What are the customers going to do? File a complaint with the BBB?

If there are counter arguments describing why these sales should be approached from the credulous position rather than the incredulous, I welcome the opportunity to hear them.

Seriously, would love to know.

Not that simple with GH probably not worth the trouble given the wholesale price is low already given the product at hand. I'm not trying to be dick, but when 3 members here whose opinion are some of the only I care to hear in regards to Chinese hgh, and you keep talking about cutting dope... It's frustrating... Fall back

I 100% believe your results and expertise in the area @Dr JIM even tho everyone is prone to oversight, I in no way believe your results are anything other than accurate.

But when results and more importantly blood work from these generics - biological data- comes back with equivalent increases as expected with pharma quality it raises questions when this stuff tests in the toilet quantitatively. And these are results coming from the same individuals on the same protocols with pharma vs. generic.

It's completely within the realm. Of possibility that we tested a "dud" vial. We've seen some wild variations in serum scores and personal accounts of 'loose' dosing by the Chinese. 5-15iu/vial type shit

We are just trying to rationalize your test results with the other empirical data available. I personally, and I hope no one else, is questioning your authenticity or motive

 

[Dr JIM]

So the basic of the argument is that the PM testing was superior and should trump this recent round?

If so, that is fine. Not really anyway to argue it.
.

PM tests? Hmm why were Karl's tests never posted on Meso AS HE PROMISED he would do?
Nope instead it's my understanding you have to request to "view" PM GH assays.

The analyses I've posted vs PMs oh there is one HUGE difference one should NEVER overlook, which is WHO HAS A VESTED interest in the results.

Well I promise you it damns sure is NOT ME, LMAO!

 

[muscle96ss]

I Thought I read a whole batch of somastim was in loose powder but still tested decent.



Not that simple with GH probably not worth the trouble given the wholesale price is low already given the product at hand. I'm not trying to be dick, but when 3 members here whose opinion are some of the only I care to hear in regards to Chinese hgh, and you keep talking about cutting dope... It's frustrating... Fall back

I 100% believe your results and expertise in the area @Dr JIM even tho everyone is prone to oversight, I in no way believe your results are anything other than accurate.

But when results and more importantly blood work from these generics - biological data- comes back with equivalent increases as expected with pharma quality it raises questions when this stuff tests in the toilet quantitatively. And these are results coming from the same individuals on the same protocols with pharma vs. generic.

It's completely within the realm. Of possibility that we tested a "dud" vial. We've seen some wild variations in serum scores and personal accounts of 'loose' dosing by the Chinese. 5-15iu/vial type shit

We are just trying to rationalize your test results with the other empirical data available. I personally, and I hope no one else, is questioning your authenticity or motive

That is different in 2 ways. Firstly, Karl's GH is not Chinese and is produced with a different recipe. Secondly, they weren't supposed to be powder and were in pucks when originally shipped. Due to an error in the recipe that Karl admitted they broke up during shipping. They also caused huge red welts at the injection site. They were basically pharm grade but unuseable. As a result, Karl replaced them from anyone who asked.

 

[grey]

It's frustrating...

That's fine. Let's talk a different angle then. That just happened to be the one that got my attention.

Aside from the equation argument though the only arguments that have been made here are that the PM testing round and that the IGF results are more trusted than the MS and HPLC testing. I am not an HGH user but that doesn't seem very compelling to me.

It's completely within the realm. Of possibility that we tested a "dud" vial.

https://thinksteroids.com/community...is-rhgh-results.134364512/page-9#post-1349895


The results were from 4 different vials right? (different labs yes) but every one shows pretty egregious underdosing?

 

[muscle96ss]

That's fine. Let's talk a different angle then. That just happened to be the one that got my attention.

Aside from the equation argument though the only arguments that have been made here are that the PM testing round and that the IGF results are more trusted than the MS and HPLC testing. I am not an HGH user but that doesn't seem very compelling to me.





https://thinksteroids.com/community...is-rhgh-results.134364512/page-9#post-1349895


The results were from 4 different vials right? (different labs yes) but every one shows pretty egregious underdosing?

The IGF results show biological activity; there is no way to fake that. In other words, if someone is taking severely underdosed GH; they are not going to have a significant increase in IGF-1 levels.

 

[grey]

The IGF results show biological activity; there is no way to fake that. In other words, if someone is taking severely underdosed GH; they are not going to have a significant increase in igf-1 levels.

There is an argument I can get behind.

I haven't any dispute for that, out of my depth.