MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[BigPharma]

That is different in 2 ways. Firstly, Karl's GH is not Chinese and is produced with a different recipe. Secondly, they weren't supposed to be powder and were in pucks when originally shipped. Due to an error in the recipe that Karl admitted they broke up during shipping. They also caused huge red welts at the injection site. They were basically pharm grade but unuseable. As a result, Karl replaced them from anyone who asked.

I got mine from a different source, SubQ produced welts after a few injections at which point my source recommended delt im injections. I was skeptical but it worked like a charm. I thought it was on an individual basis because I gave sub injections to 2 other individuals ( women) and no welts???

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I believe the wrong equation was used to calculate the concentration. The equation when using UV absorbance is called Beer's Law and is as follows:

Conc of unknown component =conc. of it corresponding component of
standard x Peak area(sample)/Peak area(standard)

So in another words it should be:

Conc = 3.72mg/ml x (area of GH we are testing)/(area of standard)

Your Google Fu is impressive but your copy and paste "equation" taken directly from a student's question on chemicalforums.com has exposed a glaring weakness: You know absolutely nothing about the mathematics used to calculate concentrations and are searching frantically for something, anything, with which you can use to discredit HPLCs that have not been favorable to generic GH.

The question is why. The most obvious answer would be that you have a vested interest in generic GH sales. Your posts on the availability of legit generics have been very favorable and an anomaly among bodybuilders who have been involved with the online community as long as you.

It's also possible that you are just skeptical and are genuinely looking for answers. But that seems unlikely given your recent comments about another member's skepticism:

I don't think anyone is every going to be able to produce any evidence that will satisfy you. It is good to be skeptical and untrusting to an extent. But you have to use experience, knowledge, and your instincts to make decisions when there are strong arguments to both sides of the coin.

Whatever your motives, you are unlikely to find the answers you seek by searching Google for beginner's chemistry discussions in an effort to play gotcha. Understanding HPLCs is complex and difficult for the layman who doesn't have a teacher to turn to for help, but that is what you need.

Regarding your confusion, there is enough information in the HPLC for a chemist to determine how the concentration was determined. Ask one to explain it to you.

 

[BigPharma]

I do believe I have personally changed my opinion concerning Non-Pharma GH...I can do tren and elevate igf levels,lose fat and gain muscle(I can afford Tren) I will hopefully one day be able to run pharma gh, until that time, I do believe I am thru gambling with generics... thank you to everyone from myself and my family budget...

 

[Dr JIM]

[QUOTE="CensoredBoardsSuck, post: 1354207, member: 60474"

Regarding your confusion, there is enough information in the HPLC for a chemist to determine how the concentration was determined. Ask one to explain it to you.[/QUOTE]

Got that straight CBS in fact how the data was acquired is spelled out plain as day, for those who are even vaguely familiar with HPLCs.

There are no shocking surprises here it's ALL there and with regards to my acquiring DUDS, how absurd, unless you or anyone else believes ALL TEN of the samples MANDS forwarded for testing were DUDS.

No worries however bc those that believe that type of conspicuous nonsense quite likely also believe in the tooth fairy, lol.

Incidentally your dud explanation is not an excuse most UGL would be wiling to embrace but then again we are discussing generics so the term dud does seem appropriate.

Interesting HD that you have been the ONLY Meso member that has suggested the issue is "Jim's vs PMS" data. Well that's interesting bc PMs GH data is not available for all to view, and query freely.

How about YOU post the PM analyses so we can all scrutinize their results and data sets AS I HAVE done on AN OPEN FORUM!

It seems you have suddenly developed a quite cozy relationship with PM and it's owner Muscle 96,

 

[hotdog23]

[QUOTE="CensoredBoardsSuck, post: 1354207, member: 60474"

Regarding your confusion, there is enough information in the HPLC for a chemist to determine how the concentration was determined. Ask one to explain it to you.

Got that straight CBS in fact how the data was acquired is spelled out plain as day, for those who are even vaguely familiar with HPLCs.

There are no shocking surprises here it's ALL there and with regards to my acquiring DUDS, how absurd, unless you or anyone else believes ALL TEN of the samples MANDS forwarded for testing were DUDS.

No worries however bc those that believe that type of conspicuous nonsense quite likely also believe in the tooth fairy, lol.

Incidentally your dud explanation is not an excuse most UGL would be wiling to embrace but then again we are discussing generics so the term dud does seem appropriate.

Interesting HD that you have been the ONLY Meso member that has suggested the issue is "Jim's vs PMS" data. Well that's interesting bc PMs GH data is not available for all to view, and query freely.

How about YOU post the PM analyses so we can all scrutinize their results and data sets AS I HAVE done on AN OPEN FORUM!

It seems you have suddenly developed a quite cozy relationship with PM and it's owner Muscle 96,[/QUOTE]

Maybe you are confusing what I am saying and he is saying. I don't think you have an agenda ? Why the hostility?

The only results anyone cares about are the grey tops? ONLY because the biological data we have seen previous to these tests indicate a much higher concentration of bioactive GH than 4iu/vial.... That's why there are questions. Obviously you feel attacked, I can understand why, but that is not the intent here

@muscle96ss has helped me on several occasions and with his unbiased feedback I can see no way he stood to gain anything. I cannot speak on his relationship with the provider but IME he is a straight shooter

THEGREYTOP are on PM, OUTLAW, EROIDS, ASF and probably every other forum FWIW

 

[grey]

relationship with PM and it's owner Muscle 96

Wait... wait... wait... Really?

Muscle 96 is the owner of the PM board? Which is, from what I understand, a pay-to-access place where these other test results are? For really reals?

Jesus H. Christ. Had I been aware of that I wouldn't have bothered with the discussion.

My apologies for wasting the posts. Wasn't cognizant of that bit.

 

[readyset]

Wait... wait... wait... Really?

Muscle 96 is the owner of the PM board? Which is, from what I understand, a pay-to-access place where these other test results are? For really reals?

Jesus H. Christ. Had I been aware of that I wouldn't have bothered with the discussion.

My apologies for wasting the posts. Wasn't cognizant of that bit.

No he's not the owner. I think he misplaced a comma lol. Big A owns pm

 

[muscle96ss]

Wait... wait... wait... Really?

Muscle 96 is the owner of the PM board? Which is, from what I understand, a pay-to-access place where these other test results are? For really reals?

Jesus H. Christ. Had I been aware of that I wouldn't have bothered with the discussion.

My apologies for wasting the posts. Wasn't cognizant of that bit.

This is why Jim is an assclown and cannot be taken seriously. I have ZERO ownership or any legal, monetary, or any type of relationship with PM other than being a member since the beginning. To write something like that is completely irresponsible on Jim's part and shows how far out of touch with reality he is. In fact I will put it in writing right here, I will give any person in this world than can bring any legitimate proof that I have anything financially to do with PM, $1,000,000. There it is, put up or shut up!!!

 

[mands]

Wait... wait... wait... Really?

Muscle 96 is the owner of the PM board? Which is, from what I understand, a pay-to-access place where these other test results are? For really reals?

Jesus H. Christ. Had I been aware of that I wouldn't have bothered with the discussion.

My apologies for wasting the posts. Wasn't cognizant of that bit.

No he is NOT!!! That's ridiculous.

mands

 

[muscle96ss]

Your Google Fu is impressive but your copy and paste "equation" taken directly from a student's question on chemicalforums.com has exposed a glaring weakness: You know absolutely nothing about the mathematics used to calculate concentrations and are searching frantically for something, anything, with which you can use to discredit HPLCs that have not been favorable to generic GH.

The question is why. The most obvious answer would be that you have a vested interest in generic GH sales. Your posts on the availability of legit generics have been very favorable and an anomaly among bodybuilders who have been involved with the online community as long as you.

It's also possible that you are just skeptical and are genuinely looking for answers. But that seems unlikely given your recent comments about another member's skepticism:




Whatever your motives, you are unlikely to find the answers you seek by searching Google for beginner's chemistry discussions in an effort to play gotcha. Understanding HPLCs is complex and difficult for the layman who doesn't have a teacher to turn to for help, but that is what you need.

Regarding your confusion, there is enough information in the HPLC for a chemist to determine how the concentration was determined. Ask one to explain it to you.

Welcome CBS, it took you long enough to get here and defend your right hand man, Jim. Since you are accusing me of having an agenda, lets summarize what happened a while ago here regarding Karl and his Somastim GH for those that weren't here or don't remember.

If you recall mands was having Karls GH tested. I knew that Dr. Jim was doing the testing because mands told me but nobody else knew as Jim was not public about his testing as he is now(Jim's close friends such as CBS knew as well). Jim tested Karls GH(and I am not positive on my recollection but I don't believe Jim knew it was Karl's GH he was testing, I am not positive on this detail though). The test showed pharm grade GH. Karl was made aware of that test by mands and used it on the thread here, where he had been called a scammer by Jim, to prove that his GH was legit. Jim proceeded to poke holes in the lab tests and say that they didn't prove that he had legit GH while nobody other than Jim's friends and myself knew that he was the one that actually did the tests and that his arguments were ludicrous. Jim didn't know that mands had told me that he was doing the tests. So when I exposed that detail, the shit hit the fan.

So you want to talk about someone who is deceptive and has an agenda? You want to talk about someone who can manipulate people into believing results that aren't so? The funny thing is the whole time I was being called a shill for Karl and it was said that I was on Karl's payroll. Now I am being told I have a vested interest in generic GH. Its funny, because its actually the opposite where you guys that have a bias towards pharm GH.

My point in being here is simply to find the truth. I have used plenty of generic GH and I have used plenty of pharm GH. I have composed a shitload of data on both. I use what makes the most sense for me to use based on my testing and my results, PERIOD!!
Lastly, instead of trying to attack my character and continuing to be defensive; why doesn't someone simply just post the fucking data?? This is the same shit as was in Karl's thread. There is an easy solution to prove who is right or wrong, but instead of resolving the issue and putting it to rest, you guys talk circles around the issue and get nothing accomplished.

 

[muscle96ss]

If you want to see a shitload of data and real world results, check out this thread on PM:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/sponsors/118858-hgh-testing.html

It is a HUGE thread and will take a long time to read, but there is a ton of great information there including comparison of serums and IGF-1's of generic versus pharm grade and plenty of varying opinions and debate. I am pretty sure that if you read the entire thread you will be questioning the results of the concentrations from Jim's tests as well. They defy real world results as well as hundreds of blood work serum GH's and IGF-1's.

 

[pmac928]

If you want to see a shitload of data and real world results, check out this thread on PM:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/sponsors/118858-hgh-testing.html

It is a HUGE thread and will take a long time to read, but there is a ton of great information there including comparison of serums and IGF-1's of generic versus pharm grade and plenty of varying opinions and debate. I am pretty sure that if you read the entire thread you will be questioning the results of the concentrations from Jim's tests as well. They defy real world results as well as hundreds of blood work serum GH's and IGF-1's.

Fact remains not one source will step up with labs of there own to dispute Any data presented here.

 

[muscle96ss]

I don't even know if any of the actual sources have knowledge of this thread other than Karl. And Karl doesn't want to have anything to do with this board after his last experience that I posted above. He doesn't trust Dr. Jim and the feelings go both ways as I am sure Jim will attest to.

If you guys want, I can email TP and let him know about the thread here in case he wants to respond. Let me know if that is what you guys want. I am headed out to work but will do it later if enough people think it would be productive. They key word there is productive. My guess though is that he is going to want to see the actual data just like I have been asking. So I think its only fair that if we bring him over here, that Jim gives him that opportunity.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

If you recall mands was having Karls GH tested. I knew that Dr. Jim was doing the testing because mands told me but nobody else knew as Jim was not public about his testing as he is now(Jim's close friends such as CBS knew as well).

Actually, I didn't know anything about it.

Jim tested Karls GH(and I am not positive on my recollection but I don't believe Jim knew it was Karl's GH he was testing, I am not positive on this detail though). The test showed pharm grade GH. Karl was made aware of that test by mands and used it on the thread here, where he had been called a scammer by Jim, to prove that his GH was legit. Jim proceeded to poke holes in the lab tests and say that they didn't prove that he had legit GH while nobody other than Jim's friends and myself knew that he was the one that actually did the tests and that his arguments were ludicrous. Jim didn't know that mands had told me that he was doing the tests. So when I exposed that detail, the shit hit the fan.

You have a selective memory. The issue was that Karl was unable to provide any of the analytical data that he would have surely had IF he was truly manufacturing GH. But that is irrelevant to this discussion and I have no desire to rehash it here.

So you want to talk about someone who is deceptive and has an agenda? You want to talk about someone who can manipulate people into believing results that aren't so? The funny thing is the whole time I was being called a shill for Karl and it was said that I was on Karl's payroll. Now I am being told I have a vested interest in generic GH. Its funny, because its actually the opposite where you guys that have a bias towards pharm GH.

I didn't say you had a vested interest in generic GH. I said it was a possibility and that your posts supported that theory. I also said it was possible that you were genuinely skeptical but you chose to ignore that and portray yourself as a martyr.

Lastly, instead of trying to attack my character and continuing to be defensive; why doesn't someone simply just post the fucking data??

This is the point of contention and we would have been better served by skipping all the extraneous nonsense and getting right to it. As I stated in my previous reply, all the data needed to verify the chemist's summary can be found in the HPLC report. You just don't realize it because you don't know how to read the report. Find a chemist and show him the data. He will be able to look it and tell you within minutes if the math is correct. Until then you are chasing phantoms.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

I don't even know if any of the actual sources have knowledge of this thread other than Karl. And Karl doesn't want to have anything to do with this board after his last experience that I posted above. He doesn't trust Dr. Jim and the feelings go both ways as I am sure Jim will attest to.

If you guys want, I can email TP and let him know about the thread here in case he wants to respond. Let me know if that is what you guys want. I am headed out to work but will do it later if enough people think it would be productive. They key word there is productive. My guess though is that he is going to want to see the actual data just like I have been asking. So I think its only fair that if we bring him over here, that Jim gives him that opportunity.

Karl doesn't want anything to do with this board because he has been outed as a piece of shit here over and over and over again.

After you and Karl left last time there were GH serum and igf1 tests posted on the replacements he sent out showing they were bunk.

You seem to be in pretty tight with Karl and TP.. Why? Last time you were here you made several posts claiming to be pretty successful. Since you have the means, why do you waste time with generics when you know exactly what you're getting with pharm grade?

You only show up here when REAL testing gets done on generics trying awfully hard to discredit the results.

I'm not going to come right out and say you have some kind of financial interest in this but something doesn't add up about you, that's for sure..

 

[pmac928]

I don't even know if any of the actual sources have knowledge of this thread other than Karl. And Karl doesn't want to have anything to do with this board after his last experience that I posted above. He doesn't trust Dr. Jim and the feelings go both ways as I am sure Jim will attest to.

If you guys want, I can email TP and let him know about the thread here in case he wants to respond. Let me know if that is what you guys want. I am headed out to work but will do it later if enough people think it would be productive. They key word there is productive. My guess though is that he is going to want to see the actual data just like I have been asking. So I think its only fair that if we bring him over here, that Jim gives him that opportunity.

Pd knows and your in with him also. While I respect pd and plan to continue using his services, nobody will come to dispute these results.

I myself wonder why igfs are elevated but do not doubt in anyway what has been done here is 100% accurate. I think the elevated igfs just prove how inconsistent genetics are.

 

[pmac928]

There is little to no information publicly available about generic hgh in china with the exception of jintropin and the Zhongshan biohygene facility. You can't find anything about grey tops,rips,angtropin,or haratropin being manufactured. That tells me it's being done secretly to provide the black market with hgh. It also tells me it's not regulated regardless if it's made in a gmp facility or not.

 

[grey]

No he's not the owner. I think he misplaced a comma lol. Big A owns pm

Good, I feel much much better about this then.

 

[mands]

Fact remains not one source will step up with labs of there own to dispute Any data presented here.

If they do post up any date they know NOBODY will believe the information is true or accurate. It's a loose loose.

mands

 

[flexhead]

If they do post up any date they know NOBODY will believe the information is true or accurate. It's a loose loose.

mands

Fully agree with this @mands, at least when it comes to this board. In general though most people do not like believing something they pay a lot for is crap versus something cheap. It is easier for most to believe a $50 bottle of ugl test e is bunk or under dosed versus a $300 kit of GH. The more you pay the harder it is for us to accept that we have been taken to the cleaners. Hell, I'm guilty of this even though I acknowledge it...lol