MuscleCandy - US Domestic

[BigNoOne]

That's my curse. Have to say legal. Would be fun though. Thanks.

So what in my explanation to you was flawed?

Buzzing around like a mosquito isn’t going to gain you support for your projects. Your database was a good idea. Just stick to that and let free market capitalism do its thing.

 

[MuscleCandy]

@readalot
I’m genuinely curious to know the extent of the information that’s available to you on the products you get from your clinic. Do they provide testing on finished oils? Surely they don’t provide testing on the raws they use. Is there simply a level of trust that cannot be achieved by UGL vendors?

 

[ivandragovich]

@readalot
I’m genuinely curious to know the extent of the information that’s available to you on the products you get from your clinic. Do they provide testing on finished oils? Surely they don’t provide testing on the raws they use. Is there simply a level of trust that cannot be achieved by UGL vendors?

Prob the fda vs ugl and what not, higher level of standard supposedly etc.

 

[readalot]

@readalot
I’m genuinely curious to know the extent of the information that’s available to you on the products you get from your clinic. Do they provide testing on finished oils? Surely they don’t provide testing on the raws they use. Is there simply a level of trust that cannot be achieved by UGL vendors?

Now those are some great questions.

I've procured COAs for the finished injectables I've used from both a large compounder and big pharma. Big Pharma COA much longer list.

But here's the kicker. The compounder doesn't even test the raw before making the finished product. So no better than UGL. Hence I am seriously considering switching.

All of my work designed to make UGL as good but hopefully better than compounding. I've shared the compounder COA here on Meso. Would you like to see? They test finished product for purity, sterility and endotoxins (at least that's the claim).

I could make some lame claim that compounder sourcing from FDA DMF API supplier but without COA from raw supplier how do you verify? You don't.

 

[FastBun]

You certainly have no shortage of stuff to say about SST. What’s your obsession?

If you actually read some of the threads at SST you’d see that there are people there that don’t blindly praise the sources. Yes there are a bunch of enthusiastic newbs that are excited to make their first drug transaction but there’s a fair number of those guys here on MESO too.

You really want to comparing vetting process at SST and MESO?

 

[readalot]

Another little secret...some compounders don't test their non sterile products. So actually worse than UGL for orals. Quality of raw is up for speculation.

 

[FastBun]

Now those are some great questions.

I've procured COAs for the finished injectables I've used from both a large compounder and big pharma. Big Pharma COA much longer list.

But here's the kicker. The compounder doesn't even test the raw before making the finished product. So no better than UGL. Hence I am seriously considering switching.

All of my work designed to make UGL as good but hopefully better than compounding. I've shared the compounder COA here on Meso. Would you like to see? They test finished product for purity, sterility and endotoxins (at least that's the claim).

I could make some lame claim that compounder sourcing from FDA DMF API supplier but without COA from raw supplier how do you verify. You don't.

These domestic sources are getting lit up today… shed thy light

 

[readalot]

I understand the point you’re trying to make that it should be done… But you’re ignoring the logistics side of it and attempting to blame it on us being lazy or cheap, which just isn’t true.

Thanks for your comments. Respectfully I didn't ignore the logistics part of this and made it clear in my comments. So not just lazy or cheap but also could be not willing to deal with additional complexity of managing all these work streams in parallel.

Appreciate your response and I'll leave it there unless you want to discuss further.

It is unclear to me the quality of UGL raws vs API supply chain. That's currently a project I am working on that could have impact on what we thought we thought we knew about purity of Test E and Test C raws.

 

[BigNoOne]

You really want to comparing vetting process at SST and MESO?

Nope. I didn’t say anything about that. I was saying that not all of SST are source suckers just happy to get shit in the mail.

Your join date is June.

 

[MuscleCandy]

Now those are some great questions.

I've procured COAs for the finished injectables I've used from both a large compounder and big pharma. Big Pharma COA much longer list.

But here's the kicker. The compounder doesn't even test the raw before making the finished product. So no better than UGL. Hence I am seriously considering switching.

All of my work designed to make UGL as good but hopefully better than compounding. I've shared the compounder COA here on Meso. Would you like to see? They test finished product for purity, sterility and endotoxins.

I could make some lame claim that compounder sourcing from FDA DMF supplier but without COA from raw supplier how do you verify. You don't.

Interesting.
Glad to see that you’re just as inquisitive about those products as you are for UGL’s.
Obviously, there is a certain degree of trust that must be given to whoever you decide to purchase from; FDA approved or not.

I appreciate your determination to improve the community as a whole. It is admirable.

Thanks for your comments. Respectfully I didn't ignore the logistics part of this and made it clear in my comments. So not just lazy or cheap but also could be not willing to deal with additional complexity of managing all these work streams in parallel.

Appreciate your response and I'll leave it there unless you want to discuss further.

Ideally, if we could somehow test raws in-house and have a faster turnaround, it would be a lot more plausible.

 

[FastBun]

Nope. I didn’t say anything about that. I was saying that not all of SST are source suckers just happy to get shit in the mail.

Your join date is June.

on this account… my prior account was FastBunny that I got locked out of. I’ve made post about it. Go check my join date on PM clown.

 

[BigNoOne]

on this account… my prior account was FastBunny that I got locked out of. I’ve made post about it. Go check my join date on PM clown.

Pretty defensive reaction calling me a clown. Why did you feel that was necessary? It’s the internet. You could call me anything you want, it doesn’t mean anything. Just shows that you have no control over your emotions, brutha.

2018 is when I started on the forums too. All good man.

 

[BigNoOne]

Obviously, there is a certain degree of trust that must be given to whoever you decide to purchase from; FDA approved or not.

“Trust” is why you should test your raws. Right now you are trusting your business to your supplier. It’s cool that you test your finished products, but think of how stuck you’d be if you brewed everything up and it all came back low-dosed. You’d be out that time and you’d have no inventory.

Brew your products and keep track of the inventory. As you hit half-out, get your next batch of raws tested. You can easily figure out a product rotation so that you’re not waiting on anything forever.

If your supplier messes up, you’re fucked. You know how that would mess up your reputation in this business. Testing raws protects you more than anyone else.

 

[MuscleCandy]

“Trust” is why you should test your raws. Right now you are trusting your business to your supplier. It’s cool that you test your finished products, but think of how stuck you’d be if you brewed everything up and it all came back low-dosed. You’d be out that time and you’d have no inventory.

Brew your products and keep track of the inventory. As you hit half-out, get your next batch of raws tested. You can easily figure out a product rotation so that you’re not waiting on anything forever.

If your supplier messes up, you’re fucked. You know how that would mess up your reputation in this business. Testing raws protects you more than anyone else.

This is easier said than done.
Somebody please point me to a source who actually does this.

I think you may not realize how fast sources can go through a kg of raw material. If it was this easy, all sources would do it. Nobody has to explain the value of it, it’s common sense.

 

[readalot]

Interesting.
Glad to see that you’re just as inquisitive about those products as you are for UGL’s.
Obviously, there is a certain degree of trust that must be given to whoever you decide to purchase from; FDA approved or not.

I appreciate your determination to improve the community as a whole. It is admirable.


Ideally, if we could somehow test raws in-house and have a faster turnaround, it would be a lot more plausible.

Thanks for the feedback.

Fyi.

503B COA

Post in thread 'Readalots Enhanced Testing'

Nov 6, 2024

COA from the 503B

You can compare against the big pharma COA in the Source QC thread. The big pharma one much more exhaustive. To your point @B Ware the compounding pharmacies may share raws suppliers with some UGL vendors. It's a great question.

B Ware's HPLC test on same product (different batch).

• readalot

• 

Note they are off on their API concentration haha. They don't test the raw.

Appreciate the constructive discussion.

 

[readalot]

Pharma COA. Not easy to get.

Post in thread 'Source QC and C of A (do you have one?)'

Jan 11, 2024

Could add in a few positive controls with pharma or compounded pharma products although the absolute concentration of impurities will be lower than in the raws obviously.

Ok, I am going to start with the simplest example I could think of that may be of interest to members. Getting a C of A from Pharma isn't as easy as it used to be. This took a little work with persistence. I have sanitized some of the details from this one to protect manufacturer confidential information as per forum Terms and Rules.

This is an FDA approved Testosterone Cypionate product manufactured in...

• readalot

• 

 

[BigNoOne]

This is easier said than done.
Somebody please point me to a source who actually does this.

I think you may not realize how fast sources can go through a kg of raw material. If it was this easy, all sources would do it. Nobody has to explain the value of it, it’s common sense.

It use to be common here until, well, new members flooded in and couldn’t duplicate the same community standards.

Can you get a little bit creative at least, send a few raw samples in. You know, pretend that you care about the quality of ingredients that go into your carefully crafted product? Check in your suppliers. Make sure that your Asian homies aren’t stomping your powders? Work with us?

 

[readalot]

Buzzing around like a mosquito isn’t going to gain you support for your projects. Your database was a good idea. Just stick to that and let free market capitalism do its thing.

I appreciate your feedback. I could definitely use a personable teammate to be the face of the campaign LOL.

Honor to be on the board with you.

 

[readalot]

You really want to comparing vetting process at SST and MESO?

I've had zero issues at SST for n=1 data point. They wouldn't even let me in the door at UGBB.

Do with that what you will.

 

[MuscleCandy]

Can you get a little bit creative at least, send a few raw samples in. You know, pretend that you care about the quality of ingredients that go into your carefully crafted product? Check in your suppliers. Make sure that your Asian homies aren’t stomping your powders? Work with us?

This is exactly what it comes down to. Sources humoring members by posting some samples & pretending to care… customers can squint their eyes very tightly and play along, but we all know the truth.

It’s no secret that most sources are almost certainly getting their raws from the same few places. @readalot has suggested that even compounding pharmacies may share the same raw suppliers as UGLs (and they likely do). There’s a reason they allow for a 10% variance. Not even they’re testing the raws.