muscle96ss
Subscriber
mands - I have no problem sending you one; in fact just received some fresh ones 4 days ago. Did a serum about 3 hours ago. Just shoot me a message or email if interested.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results
- Thread starter mands
- Start date
mands - I have no problem sending you one; in fact just received some fresh ones 4 days ago. Did a serum about 3 hours ago. Just shoot me a message or email if interested.
Sorry for the delays guys. It's getting close 
mands
mands
hey bro just saw this count me in too if ya need one to test!
Ah this may have been my oversight NOT MANDS!
I was also under the impression some of the more recent analyses were conducted on Grey Tops, apparently NOT. It suspect the Grey assays I referred to earlier were conducted when Greys were first released as Rip replacements.
But if MANDS can get it done it WILL be done.
Everyone really needs to understand this type of testing takes a considerable amount of time and impatience only begets erroneous data.
And if "results" is what anyone is after try Eroids they have a plenty
I only mention that particular point bc most "long term" Meso members have been there done that!
Regs
JIM
I hope you fellas know better than to believe all that is posted about this stuff on the net and that certainly includes AAS forums including Meso.
If you don't know and trust the person posting biologic results they are NOT worth the page they are printed on, IMO
The fact is MANY folk Meso members so kindly refer to as "bro" have their hands in someone else's pocket and would sell their sister, mother, brother and even their dog, God forbid, for a nice biologic review.
Remember why generic exists from the outset, bc folk "can't afford Ph grade", and are willing to roll the dice on an unproven, and in most instances, untested product as a financial compromise. How many other angles are there to lower the price, your guess is as good as mine.
Look when the analytical data deviates MUCH AT ALL from Pharm grade yet the biologic results equal or exceed them, red flags should rise in the halls of Meso. AND those flags should read BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT!
JIM
Now understand I'm NOT incriminating anyone on Meso, but trying to ensure Meso mates continue to exercise due diligence when reviewing biologic reports.
Bc unlike MS and HPLCs in which the graphic info is extremely difficult to tamper with, the results of any narrative assay such as GH or IGF is VERY easy to alter.
So just keep everything in perspective and hopefully we can uncover something useful for all Meso members
Bc unlike MS and HPLCs in which the graphic info is extremely difficult to tamper with, the results of any narrative assay such as GH or IGF is VERY easy to alter.
So just keep everything in perspective and hopefully we can uncover something useful for all Meso members
Okay MESO!!! Here are the HPLC's and MASS SPEC's as promised.
1. Western Bio-Tech - Orange top
2. Dream Builders - Pink/Purple top
3. 5kits - Hypertropin Green tops
mands
1. Western Bio-Tech - Orange top
2. Dream Builders - Pink/Purple top
3. 5kits - Hypertropin Green tops
mands
Can You please ezplain the results?
Do i read correctly, karl hgh Looks 99% pure? Lol? I can't understand these laboratories report lol
First of all I want to say thank you for all of you two's hard work its much appreciated!
You. really need to familiarize yourself with THE ENTIRE THREAD
While Ks GH had a MW close to Ph grade at 22113 D vs 22131 there is only 1.36 mg of his protein in each vial.
So that means although folk may believe they are pinning TEN IU, if the entire vial is used, they are actually injecting roughly FOUR IU.
Moreover bc this product is NOT entirely consistent with rHGH it's Biologic effects ARE UNKNOWN.
So that means although folk may believe they are pinning TEN IU, if the entire vial is used, they are actually injecting roughly FOUR IU.
Moreover bc this product is NOT entirely consistent with rHGH it's Biologic effects ARE UNKNOWN.
Colt44
Well-known Member
Is this from his "second" batch or a subsequent one? Just curious.
I don't count batches
Appreciate all the testing. Excuse my ignorance here, so be easy with me.
Somatropin being 22,125 Da :
The samples that are testing lower, would they still be considered Somatropin or just a GH protein?
I've seen samples test with two peaks (combo) of 22,145,2 Da / 22,441,4 Da (similar to Rips)
What would this product be considered with a higher MW than "Pharma" Somatropin
I'm assuming all these products will raise a LabCorp GH Serum test
Somatropin being 22,125 Da :
The samples that are testing lower, would they still be considered Somatropin or just a GH protein?
I've seen samples test with two peaks (combo) of 22,145,2 Da / 22,441,4 Da (similar to Rips)
What would this product be considered with a higher MW than "Pharma" Somatropin
I'm assuming all these products will raise a LabCorp GH Serum test
22124 D is what is referred to as the calculated weight of rHGH
That's to say, once the molecular structure of human GH was known all of it's elements could be added together to CALCULATE it's MW.
The PHARMACEUTICAL standard we are using also has a CALCULATED MW of22124 but it's MEASURED MW is 22131 Dalton's.
The difference lies within the margin of error of the device being used. In this case that device is a MALDI MS with a margin of error, or sensitivity, of roughly 1:1000!!
It's much like the HPLC purity data posted. What does purity mean in this instance?
It means literally the listed percentage absorbs UVL at a particular wavelength and that wavelength is consistent with GH or GH LIKE compounds.
So can ANY of this data be used to say unequivocally these samples are GH? NOPE!
More testing would have to be conducted such as a trypsin cleavage assay and according to FDA standards PROOF OF BIOLOGIC ACTIVITY.
All that being said info of this nature is a hell of a lot better than having nothing but "the word of sources" IMO!
GH evidence also suggest those compounds which fall OUTSIDE of the margin of error would be LESS LIKELY to have Biologic activity, especially at the level of Ph grade rHGH.
(Obviously exceptions do exist such as the earlier version of rHGH with 192 rather than 191 AA. Although it was "bio active" resistance occurred overtime with the development of "anti-GH" auto-antibodies. For that and other "allergic conditions" it was removed from the market by the FDA only a few years after it's introduction)
Jim
That's to say, once the molecular structure of human GH was known all of it's elements could be added together to CALCULATE it's MW.
The PHARMACEUTICAL standard we are using also has a CALCULATED MW of22124 but it's MEASURED MW is 22131 Dalton's.
The difference lies within the margin of error of the device being used. In this case that device is a MALDI MS with a margin of error, or sensitivity, of roughly 1:1000!!
It's much like the HPLC purity data posted. What does purity mean in this instance?
It means literally the listed percentage absorbs UVL at a particular wavelength and that wavelength is consistent with GH or GH LIKE compounds.
So can ANY of this data be used to say unequivocally these samples are GH? NOPE!
More testing would have to be conducted such as a trypsin cleavage assay and according to FDA standards PROOF OF BIOLOGIC ACTIVITY.
All that being said info of this nature is a hell of a lot better than having nothing but "the word of sources" IMO!
GH evidence also suggest those compounds which fall OUTSIDE of the margin of error would be LESS LIKELY to have Biologic activity, especially at the level of Ph grade rHGH.
(Obviously exceptions do exist such as the earlier version of rHGH with 192 rather than 191 AA. Although it was "bio active" resistance occurred overtime with the development of "anti-GH" auto-antibodies. For that and other "allergic conditions" it was removed from the market by the FDA only a few years after it's introduction)
Jim
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Thank You. I prefer seeing testing done like this.
GH Serum:
I see tons of GH Serum testing used to show a GH Product valid. Seeing Swiss Prot and the different GH Proteins (MW), I'm assuming any of these "generic" GH Products will raise GH Serum since LabCorp is testing for a "range" of proteins. (20-22KD)
Similar to Testosterone Serum. Any of these compounds will raise Test Serum (Test E, Test C, Test P, etc) So my critical thinking is that a range of GH Proteins will raise a LabCorp GH Serum test also.
Not sure about IGF-1. Are there more mechanismns at play with approved Somatropin and IGF-1 is just used and an indicator for an approved GH Product. Maybe I'm just over-thinkn and all this Chinese stuff is GTG.
GH Serum:
I see tons of GH Serum testing used to show a GH Product valid. Seeing Swiss Prot and the different GH Proteins (MW), I'm assuming any of these "generic" GH Products will raise GH Serum since LabCorp is testing for a "range" of proteins. (20-22KD)
Similar to Testosterone Serum. Any of these compounds will raise Test Serum (Test E, Test C, Test P, etc) So my critical thinking is that a range of GH Proteins will raise a LabCorp GH Serum test also.
Not sure about IGF-1. Are there more mechanismns at play with approved Somatropin and IGF-1 is just used and an indicator for an approved GH Product. Maybe I'm just over-thinkn and all this Chinese stuff is GTG.
Thank You. I prefer seeing testing done like this.
GH Serum:
I see tons of GH Serum testing used to show a GH Product valid. Seeing Swiss Prot and the different GH Proteins (MW), I'm assuming any of these "generic" GH Products will raise GH Serum since LabCorp is testing for a "range" of proteins. (20-22KD)
Similar to Testosterone Serum. Any of these compounds will raise Test Serum (Test E, Test C, Test P, etc) So my critical thinking is that a range of GH Proteins will raise a LabCorp GH Serum test also.
Not sure about IGF-1. Are there more mechanismns at play with approved Somatropin and IGF-1 is just used and an indicator for an approved GH Product. Maybe I'm just over-thinkn and all this Chinese stuff is GTG.
And I certainly agree, however GH assays are much more reliable whenever MS is used, rather than ELISA since the latter primarily measures GH FRAGMENTS.
However a demonstrable change above baseline (usually at least a doubling) in IGF levels most certainly is proof of bio-activity at least by FDA standards.
To that end let's not overlook other reasons analyses of this nature are helpful, they RULE OUT the possibility of an UGL substituting secretagogues, peptides, GH fragments, or even IGF as the active ingredient in their "GH" vials".
Jim
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Ahh...I think you may have answered a very long question I've had.
Somatropin (22,125Da) Somatrem (22,226Da)
Both have been proven to have therapeutic properties. Somatrem having potential issues (Protein Immunogenicity, Neutralizing Antibodies, Tolerance, etc)
I've seen the Chinese Products (Hygetropin, Riptropin) have a higher MW than approved Somatropin. (MW ranging between Somatropin and Somatrem)
These products still will raise IGF-1
"Liquid" or "Pre-constituted" GH is being prescribed (aGHD) more now since even approved lyophilized (powder) GH can yield some issues after prolonged use (6+ months)
I think I'll just stick with an Approved GH product since the Chinese stuff is so inconsistent.
Thanks again Sir
Somatropin (22,125Da) Somatrem (22,226Da)
Both have been proven to have therapeutic properties. Somatrem having potential issues (Protein Immunogenicity, Neutralizing Antibodies, Tolerance, etc)
I've seen the Chinese Products (Hygetropin, Riptropin) have a higher MW than approved Somatropin. (MW ranging between Somatropin and Somatrem)
These products still will raise IGF-1
"Liquid" or "Pre-constituted" GH is being prescribed (aGHD) more now since even approved lyophilized (powder) GH can yield some issues after prolonged use (6+ months)
I think I'll just stick with an Approved GH product since the Chinese stuff is so inconsistent.
Thanks again Sir
Oh yea I've HEARD less than legit Ph grade will raise IGF levels but where is the data that PROVES IT?
AAS forum anecdotes is hardly evidence IMO.
That being said I'm NOT discounting the possibility BUT I'm quite concerned these "less than GH " products have adverse effects that are anything but desirable. The million dollar question then becomes, is the risk worth the benefit!
To that end I hope those mates who had their GH analyzed will contribute by having formal IGF testing performed and forwarded to MANDS.
Jim
I agree...million dollar question indeed.
I've got quite an "assortment" of GH Products (Approved, Not Approved, Chinese Approved, etc)
More than happy to contribute.
MANDS can contact me if interested.
Really appreciate all the testing.
Thank You
