MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[muscle96ss]

I guess it would be usefuul to ask the guys at pm if they would get some pharmacy grade, get their baselines, and have them check their igf levels when they do their serum tests.

There have been many tests done with pharm grade; mainly from RP and myself. I did not stop to establish a baseline as I have no desire to subject myself to a low IGF-1 for any length of time. However, some of my pharm grade IGF-1's were done in succession with other pharm grades as well as generics. In other words, I run one brand for a month and do a serum and IGF-1 on that brand. Then I switch to another brand and repeat, etc..

 

[muscle96ss]

This is from Private Blood Tests website :

Fasting for 12 hours is required for this test

Did you guys fasting for 12 h before IGF 1 test?

Some say that, some don't, its pretty much irrelevant as IGF-1 is going to be relatively stable throughout the day.

 

[muscle96ss]

Muscle, I tried to post up in the hgh testing thread, but I guess I don't have enough posts yet to allow me to do that. But I wanted to ask if anyone has done any igf testing on the blacktops that everyone is getting so enthusiastic about. Also, if there is any plans to do more hplc testing. In no way is this a criticism of what they are doing over there, I'm just greedy and want more

I believe RP has and is currently doing on a weekly basis IGF-1 on TP's black tops. Also they have been lab tested on the current batch at 5mg per vial and the first batch was something like 4.23mg per vial.

As far as future HPLC plans, that is currently up for discussion. I am kind of caught in the middle and don't know how it will play out. On one hand I would love it. On the other hand it is a lot of stress and if we do it I want to do it right; which only creates more stress. And lastly, I am afraid that no matter how we do it, people are going to find a way to criticize it and minimize its value if the results don't come out as expected.

 

[rpbb]

I believe RP has and is currently doing on a weekly basis IGF-1 on TP's black tops. Also they have been lab tested on the current batch at 5mg per vial and the first batch was something like 4.23mg per vial.

As far as future HPLC plans, that is currently up for discussion. I am kind of caught in the middle and don't know how it will play out. On one hand I would love it. On the other hand it is a lot of stress and if we do it I want to do it right; which only creates more stress. And lastly, I am afraid that no matter how we do it, people are going to find a way to criticize it and minimize its value if the results don't come out as expected.

Țhanks muscle, I think what everyone is doing is great

 

[ProfessorX]

A couple of points:

Firstly, on a number of occasions you have stated that IGF-1 reflects does(mg/iu). It is correct in that the higher the dose the higher the IGF-1. However, it is not a linear relationship. In other words an IGF-1 on 5iu will not yield half the result of 10iu. In addition, the response to the dosage is based on many individual variables just as the serum GH test is. In fact, one extremely important variable is liver function. You can take all the GH in the world, but if your liver doesn't process it properly, it will never convert it to IGF-1. I don't know if you realize how important that step is in the process. So, in the bodybuilding community where we take other drugs that can harm the liver, you can get very variable IGF-1 scores among different individuals on the same dosage simply based on their liver health. Buck1973 understand this first hand as his individual IGF-1 levels vary greatly at times depending on how high his liver enzymes are.

Secondly, while I am still waiting to see the scientific proof that 1 subq injection can double IGF-1 levels; on the surface it defies logic. IGF-1 is used in the medical community as the test to monitor the effectiveness of GH treatment. The reason that it is used is because of the stability or lack of fluctuation of IGF-1 levels throughout the day. If one subq dosage could double IGF-1 levels in 2 hours then would completely nullify the basis for which it is being used. The medical community would then either be completely oblivious to the science or we would be seeing lots of errors being reported in these tests as many would be skewed depending on when the patient took their last injection or even their normal pulsatile rythym would have some effect. So, as a person of logic, I am having a real tough time buying this.

If one subq dosage could double IGF-1 levels in 2 hours then would completely nullify the basis for which it is being used. The medical community would then either be completely oblivious to the science or we would be seeing lots of errors being reported in these tests as many would be skewed depending on when the patient took their last injection or even their normal pulsatile rythym would have some effect. So, as a person of logic, I am having a real tough time buying this.

OMG! ^^^^

Bro,

LOL....I don't know what to tell ya brutha. I guess I'm some freak of nature that can double my IGF1 from Baseline.

Listen...I posted up my personal Blood Work (Doubled IGF1) to compare to the Genotropin/Omnitrope study (graph)
If you do not understand how to read the graph along with the additional info I posted, I really don't know what to tell ya.

MATT from GODTropin wasn't as Hard Skulled as you. He gets it now. He's got plenty of blood work

Methods: Two randomized, double-blind, single-dose, three-way crossover studies were carried out in 36 young healthy volunteers each. Endogenous GH secretion was suppressed with a 25-h continuous i.v. infusion of octreotide (40 μg/h) starting 1 h before rhGH administration.

Pharmacodynamics
IGF1 is the preferred pharmacodynamic marker for the activity of somatropin and is, together with IGFBP3, recommended tobe used in comparative pharmacodynamic studies

So there's is actually no Baseline....the subjects are TOTALLY SUPPRESSED (Endo GH)

AFTER READING THIS FROM A "Provider" OF GENERIC GH AT PM


I NOW UNDERSATND THE "Game" OVER AT PM

CRAPPY CHINESE GENERIC GH WILL ALWAYS RAISE GH SERUM LEVELS

NOT SO WITH IGF1

IT CAN CAUSE :

Deminishing IGF1 (TOLERANCE or PROTEIN IMMUNOGENICITY)

NOW I SEE WHY YOU ARE SO PROTECTIVE OF THE INACCURATE GH SERUMS

IVE GOT BLOOD WORK, HPLC, UPLC to demonstrate GH Serum vs IGF1

WHAT YOU GOT? BUNCHA HIGH GH SERUMS TO PUMP THEN KITS OUT

I REALLY THOUGHT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR SOME SOLID HELPFUL INFORMATION

IM DONE.....PEACE OUT

 

[rpbb]

Bro,

LOL....I don't know what to tell ya brutha. I guess I'm some freak of nature that can double my IGF1 from Baseline.

Listen...I posted up my personal Blood Work (Doubled IGF1) to compare to the Genotropin/Omnitrope study (graph)
If you do not understand how to read the graph along with the additional info I posted, I really don't know what to tell ya.

Methods: Two randomized, double-blind, single-dose, three-way crossover studies were carried out in 36 young healthy volunteers each. Endogenous GH secretion was suppressed with a 25-h continuous i.v. infusion of octreotide (40 μg/h) starting 1 h before rhGH administration.

Pharmacodynamics
IGF1 is the preferred pharmacodynamic marker for the activity of somatropin and is, together with IGFBP3, recommended tobe used in comparative pharmacodynamic studies

So there's is actually no Baseline....the subjects are TOTALLY SUPPRESSED (Endo GH)

AFTER READING THIS FROM A "Provider" OF GENERIC GH AT PM
View attachment 32395

I NOW UNDERSATND THE "Game" OVER AT PM

CRAPPY CHINESE GENERIC GH WILL ALWAYS RAISE GH SERUM LEVELS

NOT SO WITH IGF1

IT CAN CAUSE :

Deminishing IGF1 (TOLERANCE or PROTEIN IMMUNOGENICITY)

NOW I SEE WHY YOU ARE SO PROTECTIVE OF THE INACCURATE GH SERUMS

IVE GOT BLOOD WORK, HPLC, UPLC to demonstrate GH Serum vs IGF1

IM DONE.....PEACE OUT

That is one of the main concerns of the generic, if it's not right, you'll build up a nasty resistance to the hgh in your body. Hence the red welts, if you do get them, stop immediately

 

[rpbb]

And I have been doing massive amounts of research, the consensus seems to be that blood serum levels only tell if it's hgh. Igf results are required to tell 8f it's dosed correctly, and hplc is the gold standard

 

[rpbb]

If one subq dosage could double IGF-1 levels in 2 hours then would completely nullify the basis for which it is being used. The medical community would then either be completely oblivious to the science or we would be seeing lots of errors being reported in these tests as many would be skewed depending on when the patient took their last injection or even their normal pulsatile rythym would have some effect. So, as a person of logic, I am having a real tough time buying this.

OMG! ^^^^

Bro,

LOL....I don't know what to tell ya brutha. I guess I'm some freak of nature that can double my IGF1 from Baseline.

Listen...I posted up my personal Blood Work (Doubled IGF1) to compare to the Genotropin/Omnitrope study (graph)
If you do not understand how to read the graph along with the additional info I posted, I really don't know what to tell ya.

MATT from GODTropin wasn't as Hard Skulled as you. He gets it now. He's got plenty of blood work

Methods: Two randomized, double-blind, single-dose, three-way crossover studies were carried out in 36 young healthy volunteers each. Endogenous GH secretion was suppressed with a 25-h continuous i.v. infusion of octreotide (40 μg/h) starting 1 h before rhGH administration.

Pharmacodynamics
IGF1 is the preferred pharmacodynamic marker for the activity of somatropin and is, together with IGFBP3, recommended tobe used in comparative pharmacodynamic studies

So there's is actually no Baseline....the subjects are TOTALLY SUPPRESSED (Endo GH)

AFTER READING THIS FROM A "Provider" OF GENERIC GH AT PM
View attachment 32395

I NOW UNDERSATND THE "Game" OVER AT PM

CRAPPY CHINESE GENERIC GH WILL ALWAYS RAISE GH SERUM LEVELS

NOT SO WITH IGF1

IT CAN CAUSE :

Deminishing IGF1 (TOLERANCE or PROTEIN IMMUNOGENICITY)

NOW I SEE WHY YOU ARE SO PROTECTIVE OF THE INACCURATE GH SERUMS

IVE GOT BLOOD WORK, HPLC, UPLC to demonstrate GH Serum vs IGF1

WHAT YOU GOT? BUNCHA HIGH GH SERUMS TO PUMP THEN KITS OUT

I REALLY THOUGHT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR SOME SOLID HELPFUL INFORMATION

IM DONE.....PEACE OUT

I looked at the thread over at pm and racepick is showing igf test results for the blacktops on page 201. Not sure what dosage he's running

 

[rpbb]

And here's a quote from racepick, I think he gets it

"I was leaning toward the opinion that you could guess the strength of HGH by Serum Tests. I am now convinced I was wrong. Now I wonder how accurate IGF-1 testing is also? I mean, could the IGF-1 levels be as inconsistent as the Serum testing seems to be? Seems to me that Lab Testing is the only sure-fire way of evaluating the strength/quality of HGH."

 

[muscle96ss]

If one subq dosage could double IGF-1 levels in 2 hours then would completely nullify the basis for which it is being used. The medical community would then either be completely oblivious to the science or we would be seeing lots of errors being reported in these tests as many would be skewed depending on when the patient took their last injection or even their normal pulsatile rythym would have some effect. So, as a person of logic, I am having a real tough time buying this.

OMG! ^^^^

Bro,

LOL....I don't know what to tell ya brutha. I guess I'm some freak of nature that can double my IGF1 from Baseline.

Listen...I posted up my personal Blood Work (Doubled IGF1) to compare to the Genotropin/Omnitrope study (graph)
If you do not understand how to read the graph along with the additional info I posted, I really don't know what to tell ya.

MATT from GODTropin wasn't as Hard Skulled as you. He gets it now. He's got plenty of blood work

Methods: Two randomized, double-blind, single-dose, three-way crossover studies were carried out in 36 young healthy volunteers each. Endogenous GH secretion was suppressed with a 25-h continuous i.v. infusion of octreotide (40 μg/h) starting 1 h before rhGH administration.

Pharmacodynamics
IGF1 is the preferred pharmacodynamic marker for the activity of somatropin and is, together with IGFBP3, recommended tobe used in comparative pharmacodynamic studies

So there's is actually no Baseline....the subjects are TOTALLY SUPPRESSED (Endo GH)

AFTER READING THIS FROM A "Provider" OF GENERIC GH AT PM
View attachment 32395

I NOW UNDERSATND THE "Game" OVER AT PM

CRAPPY CHINESE GENERIC GH WILL ALWAYS RAISE GH SERUM LEVELS

NOT SO WITH IGF1

IT CAN CAUSE :

Deminishing IGF1 (TOLERANCE or PROTEIN IMMUNOGENICITY)

NOW I SEE WHY YOU ARE SO PROTECTIVE OF THE INACCURATE GH SERUMS

IVE GOT BLOOD WORK, HPLC, UPLC to demonstrate GH Serum vs IGF1

WHAT YOU GOT? BUNCHA HIGH GH SERUMS TO PUMP THEN KITS OUT

I REALLY THOUGHT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR SOME SOLID HELPFUL INFORMATION

IM DONE.....PEACE OUT

What graph? I still don't see a graph? I guess I am blind but there is no graph showing up on my computer screen. In addition, how if there is no baseline then how can you possibly say that their IGF-1 doubled? You don't even know what it was before. You say that they were suppressed from octreotide, but without taking a measurement then how do you really know the level of supression? This is why I requested a link to where I can read this supposed study.

Lastly, your accusations about what we are doing on PM is way out of line and off the mark by a longshot. There is a lot of bad blood between members of PM and Meso and it almost sounds like someone is whispering a bunch of bullshit in your ear and you are buying it against your better judgement. I have personally invited you over to PM to work together because while we don't agree, you have the same goals as we do. I even told RP that you were a good guy and brought a lot to the table. Not all of us over there agree on the benefit of serums and have been debating the issue for some time. So for you to say these things is completely unfounded and disheartening.

 

[muscle96ss]

And here's a quote from racepick, I think he gets it

"I was leaning toward the opinion that you could guess the strength of HGH by Serum Tests. I am now convinced I was wrong. Now I wonder how accurate IGF-1 testing is also? I mean, could the IGF-1 levels be as inconsistent as the Serum testing seems to be? Seems to me that Lab Testing is the only sure-fire way of evaluating the strength/quality of HGH."

Yes, RP posted that yesterday based on the results of some testing that buck did this week that kind of threw us a curveball. We will see what happens when the dust settles. I think the simple explanation is that buck just isn't human. I know he is probably reading this and will get a good laugh out of it.

 

[rpbb]

What graph? I still don't see a graph? I guess I am blind but there is no graph showing up on my computer screen. In addition, how if there is no baseline then how can you possibly say that their IGF-1 doubled? You don't even know what it was before. You say that they were suppressed from octreotide, but without taking a measurement then how do you really know the level of supression? This is why I requested a link to where I can read this supposed study.

Lastly, your accusations about what we are doing on PM is way out of line and off the mark by a longshot. There is a lot of bad blood between members of PM and Meso and it almost sounds like someone is whispering a bunch of bullshit in your ear and you are buying it against your better judgement. I have personally invited you over to PM to work together because while we don't agree, you have the same goals as we do. I even told RP that you were a good guy and brought a lot to the table. Not all of us over there agree on the benefit of serums and have been debating the issue for some time. So for you to say these things is completely unfounded and disheartening.

I really don't think they are accusations, the prof is just passionate in what he believes (as are you) and that's ok. It leads to a good debate, and everyone learns and gets helped out alot in the long run

 

[rpbb]

What graph? I still don't see a graph? I guess I am blind but there is no graph showing up on my computer screen. In addition, how if there is no baseline then how can you possibly say that their IGF-1 doubled? You don't even know what it was before. You say that they were suppressed from octreotide, but without taking a measurement then how do you really know the level of supression? This is why I requested a link to where I can read this supposed study.

Lastly, your accusations about what we are doing on PM is way out of line and off the mark by a longshot. There is a lot of bad blood between members of PM and Meso and it almost sounds like someone is whispering a bunch of bullshit in your ear and you are buying it against your better judgement. I have personally invited you over to PM to work together because while we don't agree, you have the same goals as we do. I even told RP that you were a good guy and brought a lot to the table. Not all of us over there agree on the benefit of serums and have been debating the issue for some time. So for you to say these things is completely unfounded and disheartening.

And I think it would be great if prof was welcomed over there, he would add alot.

 

[muscle96ss]

I really don't think they are accusations, the prof is just passionate in what he believes (as are you) and that's ok. It leads to a good debate, and everyone learns and gets helped out alot in the long run

Maybe I am just sensitive and misinterpreting things; but here is the part of the post I am referring to:

NOW I SEE WHY YOU ARE SO PROTECTIVE OF THE INACCURATE GH SERUMS

IVE GOT BLOOD WORK, HPLC, UPLC to demonstrate GH Serum vs IGF1

WHAT YOU GOT? BUNCHA HIGH GH SERUMS TO PUMP THEN KITS OUT

I REALLY THOUGHT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR SOME SOLID HELPFUL INFORMATION

IM DONE.....PEACE OUT

 

[rpbb]

Maybe I am just sensitive and misinterpreting things; but here is the part of the post I am referring to:

I can see your point, but I still think the both of you have been great for this thread

 

[ProfessorX]

What graph? I still don't see a graph? I guess I am blind but there is no graph showing up on my computer screen. In addition, how if there is no baseline then how can you possibly say that their IGF-1 doubled? You don't even know what it was before. You say that they were suppressed from octreotide, but without taking a measurement then how do you really know the level of supression? This is why I requested a link to where I can read this supposed study.

Lastly, your accusations about what we are doing on PM is way out of line and off the mark by a longshot. There is a lot of bad blood between members of PM and Meso and it almost sounds like someone is whispering a bunch of bullshit in your ear and you are buying it against your better judgement. I have personally invited you over to PM to work together because while we don't agree, you have the same goals as we do. I even told RP that you were a good guy and brought a lot to the table. Not all of us over there agree on the benefit of serums and have been debating the issue for some time. So for you to say these things is completely unfounded and disheartening.

It's more frustration....I know what I know not from Copy n Paste.....but from a combination of Blood Work and many Samples Tested (HPLC/UPLC)

My Bood Work (IGF1 249-260 IGFBP3 4803) mirrors the results of one SubQ Inject (5mgs)
(It's the Genotropin/Omnitrope Graph a few pages back with 2 LabCorp reports)

Elevating from Baseline to Double IGF1 levels from one 5-6IU SubQ inject (3 HRs) indicates GH and not a peptide. This is common and we've done this numerous times

Somatropin.cn refers to doing this for testing GH

This type of testing can also take the place of the GH Serum testing

LETS TRY THIS:

I've already demonstrated Low GH Serum/Overdosed Vial (kit) - BloodWork,UPLC,HPLC

When I get the new sample results I'll demonstrate:

Very High GH Serum/Underdosed Vial (kit) - Blood Work,HPLC

This will show GH Serums inaccurate and the IGF1s to be more stable/accurate for concentration comparison

GH Serum lab corp testing can only identify a range of GH Proteins
191aa (22k)
176aa (20k)

You are very limited on information with Blood Work alone

SIMEC.ch
Info@SIMEC.ch

Julian or Matthias or Dr Andreas

SOMATROPIN TESTING FOR IDENTIFICATION, CONCENTRATION, PURITY

 

[muscle96ss]

It's more frustration....I know what I know not from Copy n Paste.....but from a combination of Blood Work and many Samples Tested (HPLC/UPLC)

My Bood Work (IGF1 249-260 IGFBP3 4803) mirrors the results of one SubQ Inject (5mgs)
(It's the Genotropin/Omnitrope Graph a few pages back with 2 LabCorp reports)

Elevating from Baseline to Double IGF1 levels from one 5-6IU SubQ inject (3 HRs) indicates GH and not a peptide. This is common and we've done this numerous times

Somatropin.cn refers to doing this for testing GH

This type of testing can also take the place of the GH Serum testing

LETS TRY THIS:

I've already demonstrated Low GH Serum/Overdosed Vial (kit) - BloodWork,UPLC,HPLC

When I get the new sample results I'll demonstrate:

Very High GH Serum/Underdosed Vial (kit) - Blood Work,HPLC

This will show GH Serums inaccurate and the IGF1s to be more stable/accurate for concentration comparison

GH Serum lab corp testing can only identify a range of GH Proteins
191aa (22k)
176aa (20k)

You are very limited on information with Blood Work alone

SIMEC.ch
Info@SIMEC.ch

Julian or Matthias or Dr Andreas

SOMATROPIN TESTING FOR IDENTIFICATION, CONCENTRATION, PURITY

See thats just it, you know what you know not from copy and paste but from the blood work and lab tests you have done. But then you call our results and determinations over at PM broscience. So I am supposed to look at your work and take it as fact and look at our work and somehow discount it when its based off the same thing. What I have been requesting from you is not your lab work or real world results. What I am requesting is the science that shows your results are possible and have been duplicated by others.

I have seen your blood work and I am not disputing that your lab scans show a much higher IGF-1 after the subq injection. However, I have not seen any science to explain it, while I have seen science that contradicts it. I have also seen other blood work that contradicts it as well.

So, in summary, if I were to look at solely your blood work; I agree with what you are saying. Nothing personal, but I need more than your isolated results to make a determination. I hope this make sense to you.

Also I have been doing some thinking and have a question. What would happen if you were to do the same test(5mg subq with blood drawn in 2 hours) but while continuously running GH at 4iu a day? Would it raise your IGF-1 and by how much? The reason I am asking is because even if what you say can be proven as fact, it would mean that every time I want to test a new GH I have to come off GH and go back down to baseline. When an IGF-1 test is $70 and a serum GH test is $42, why would I come completely off GH and washout, and then pay double just to garner more info on my GH? Thats a pain in the ass and not worth it to me.

 

[ProfessorX]

See thats just it, you know what you know not from copy and paste but from the blood work and lab tests you have done. But then you call our results and determinations over at PM broscience. So I am supposed to look at your work and take it as fact and look at our work and somehow discount it when its based off the same thing. What I have been requesting from you is not your lab work or real world results. What I am requesting is the science that shows your results are possible and have been duplicated by others.

I have seen your blood work and I am not disputing that your lab scans show a much higher IGF-1 after the subq injection. However, I have not seen any science to explain it, while I have seen science that contradicts it. I have also seen other blood work that contradicts it as well.

So, in summary, if I were to look at solely your blood work; I agree with what you are saying. Nothing personal, but I need more than your isolated results to make a determination. I hope this make sense to you.

Also I have been doing some thinking and have a question. What would happen if you were to do the same test(5mg subq with blood drawn in 2 hours) but while continuously running GH at 4iu a day? Would it raise your IGF-1 and by how much? The reason I am asking is because even if what you say can be proven as fact, it would mean that every time I want to test a new GH I have to come off GH and go back down to baseline. When an IGF-1 test is $70 and a serum GH test is $42, why would I come completely off GH and washout, and then pay double just to garner more info on my GH? Thats a pain in the ass and not worth it to me.

When I say BroScience.....it's the truth but I mean absolutely no disrespect....because we all have done it. It's posted all over BBing Forums

10IUs IM 3HRs (GH Serum)
4 weeks (IGF)

I honestly think a very smart Chinese BioPharm Generic GH Supplier came up with that protocol. Because it spits out:

Vague GH Serum Results (Crappy Generic GH will elevate including 176aa GH Protein)



Let's take a break buddy

It's best to just post up the Blood Work (GH Serum - IGF1) and HPLC

When they are ready, I'll post em up....this will eliminate all the unnecessary Back n Forth

You can then analyze the results and make your own conclusions

In the meantime, anyone can reach out to SIMEC and send their own GH Samples in

It's best when members send their own random samples IMO

That's what I do anyway

Eliminates all the Drama and Politics

SIMEC.ch
Info@SIMEC.ch

 

[muscle96ss]

When I say BroScience.....it's the truth but I mean absolutely no disrespect....because we all have done it. It's posted all over BBing Forums

10IUs IM 3HRs (GH Serum)
4 weeks (IGF)

I honestly think a very smart Chinese BioPharm Generic GH Supplier came up with that protocol. Because it spits out:

Vague GH Serum Results (Crappy Generic GH will elevate including 176aa GH Protein)



Let's take a break buddy

It's best to just post up the Blood Work (GH Serum - IGF1) and HPLC

When they are ready, I'll post em up....this will eliminate all the unnecessary Back n Forth

You can then analyze the results and make your own conclusions

In the meantime, anyone can reach out to SIMEC and send their own GH Samples in

It best when members send their own random samples IMO

That's what I do anyway

Eliminates all the Drama and Politics

How much do they charge and what is the turnaround time?

What items are you currently testing?

 

[Buck1973]

I looked at the thread over at pm and racepick is showing igf test results for the blacktops on page 201. Not sure what dosage he's running

I can comment on Mr. RP's test proto. As I am qwite familiar.
His dosage usually is 4 IU's P/D. H e has a few tests that were done over a month's time and IGF-1 draws done E/W. view um
I myself have IGF-1 testing and Plenty of Serums.
Many done to prove and disprove to myself.
So I am Clear ProX IGF-1 tests will double from baseline after a few hours Post 1st Injection. than for under 5 IU's will take Aprox. 8 days for peak saturation, and 10iu's give about 4 weeks to reach peak testing levels?
And ofcourse you would be wellcome to speak, comment,and discuss @ PM from my xperience there


Peace