MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[rpbb]

I think it works for both Test Serums and GH Serums.....it's hit or miss with Test Serums....GH Serums not so much

HPLC testing a Testosterone product with "bad blood work" would be a good experiment

Not sure how accurate Blood Work is for determining if my bottle of Test P contains 100mgs or 77.8 mgs

We've done that, seen x5 when everyone insisted 8t was supposed to be x10 levels with stuff that passed hplc. Or the guys that weren't "feeling" the dbol when it passed. Or the gtg bro bullshit when it was bunk

 

[ProfessorX]

From what I can tell, the prof is saying too many decisions about the hgh are being based on serum tests, when IGF is the only thing that will tell you if the hgh is good or not absent of hplc.

The studies I've read always seem to talk about igf levels, and very seldom discuss serum levels. Yet at the same time, it seems to be a test offered by labcorp, so it must be good for something

If M would research the LabCorp GH Serum test and what it actually test for....maybe some of what I'm saying would make sense....I dunno?

I'm not sure if M actually looked at some of those graphs.....but even with it being a very controlled study.....the same dose varies extremely. My experience and others is similar. One Pharma kit yielded results ranging from 8-30ng/mL from our experiment (same person)

Also, if members at PM are having extreme IGF1 variations on different generics.....it could indicate dose variation (underdosed)

I'm just sharing some info.....I'm not here for some "micro-aggression responses"!

PC PRINCIPLE RULES!

 

[Buck1973]

THERES SO MANY GRAPHS, STUDIES, ETC

NONE OF THESE ARE BASED ON THE TESTING METHODS OF MOST BBing FORUMS BUCK

BUT HERE's ANOTHER ONE FOR YA:

View attachment 32451

AS YOU CAN SEE...GH SERUMS VARY AND ARE EXTREMELY UNSTABLE...(Short Half-Life)

THE RECENT TESTING (IGF1 - GH SERUM) THAT WAS DONE

BLACK TOPS (High Serum) 30-50ng/mL (IGF1 400s)
RED TOP (Low Serum) 6.9ng/mL (IGF1 495)

BOTH OF THESE PRODUCED SIMILAR IGF1s IN MULTIPLE MEMBERS EVEN THOUGH THE GH SERUM RESULTS VARIED

THE FUNNY THING IS ......I BELIEVE THAT BOTH OF THESE (Red/Black Tops) ARE 1/2 THE DOSE AS ADVERTISED. (Just my guess....SIMEC is testing)

SIMILAR TO JIM's TESTING......

Yes Sir I am familiar with that study. Each of those lines is a individual tester.and what we can see and there is no argument that each individuals test is different Serum or IGF-1. I cannot compare any results person to person but I can compare results to Myself. But there is a bell shaped curve that they fit into.
The test study I post very closely resembles the one now posted.
My Point was that IGF-1 levels in both studys do not show scores doubling in a few hours...
I do not know the specifics of the blk top, red top scores that you refer whether it is 1 individual or 2 testers ,
real world tests depending on the individual you can have a low serum and a good IGF-1 score or a high serum and a low IGF-1.
I know my scoring pattern on both tests.
I myself Will score low on a serum compared to most other testers. however IU to IU on a IGF-1 test my scores may be higher than that of the same tester.
Does this mean that the Serum is Flawed? I tend to think more individualized to that specific tester.
And I agree that each human body is unique and difer person to person that is the wild card in both tests.
The MS/HPLC test is without doubt the only one that eliminates this variable that has never been a point of contention in the discussion here that I have seen.
What was contented was how the tests were read and reported......

 

[ProfessorX]

Yes Sir I am familiar with that study. Each of those lines is a individual tester.and what we can see and there is no argument that each individuals test is different Serum or IGF-1. I cannot compare any results person to person but I can compare results to Myself. But there is a bell shaped curve that they fit into.
The test study I post very closely resembles the one now posted.
My Point was that IGF-1 levels in both studys do not show scores doubling in a few hours...
I do not know the specifics of the blk top, red top scores that you refer whether it is 1 individual or 2 testers ,
real world tests depending on the individual you can have a low serum and a good IGF-1 score or a high serum and a low IGF-1.
I know my scoring pattern on both tests.
I myself Will score low on a serum compared to most other testers. however IU to IU on a IGF-1 test my scores may be higher than that of the same tester.
Does this mean that the Serum is Flawed? I tend to think more individualized to that specific tester.
And I agree that each human body is unique and difer person to person that is the wild card in both tests.
The MS/HPLC test is without doubt the only one that eliminates this variable that has never been a point of contention in the discussion here that I have seen.
What was contented was how the tests were read and reported......

In a nutshell BUCK, trying to determine Generic GH "strength" "Potency" "Quality" with blood work is just something done on BBing Forums

SIMEC.ch
Info@SIMEC.ch

Indentify , content mg/IU , % purity

Julian
Matthias
Dr A

Good Luck!

 

[muscle96ss]

Sigh......ok buddy

No Offense....but I see why JIM quit testing

You Guys are very "Passionate"

I've recently manipulated my IGF1 so crazy that everyone thought my GH contained IGF1 (Pep)

BUT I HAD THE PRODUCT TESTED TO PROVE MY POINT

We've already done the testing Blood Work, HPLC

ANG Source wasted soooooo much time with the Serums

I've got 2 sources that understand this now

Mands mentioned GH Serums didn't reflect dose

But your recent post at PM say otherwise

It's TOTALLY false

"Black Top 51ng/mL OVERDOSED!"

THATS VERY MISLEADING TO THE PM MEMBERS

Your wasting energy here trying to "prove my blood work a lie" or question my testing results by Accredited Labs

Just do the testing yourself

Very easy

It'll be FUN

Use One Kit.....Blood Work (IGF1 GH Serum), SIMEC (HPLC)

Good Luck With It

The black tops that tested 51 on PM were already lab tested a few weeks ago at 5mg!!! They are overdosed!! Technically they are not overdosed; they are manufactured to be 5mg, so they are accurately dosed.

 

[ProfessorX]

The black tops that tested 51 on PM were already lab tested a few weeks ago at 5mg!!! They are overdosed!! Technically they are not overdosed; they are manufactured to be 5mg, so they are accurately dosed.

Not black tops from PM source my friend

Do you have that Assay Report showing overdosed? Who did the testing?

Is it posted at PM?

I can't see much over there

 

[muscle96ss]

Not black tops from PM source my friend

Do you have that Assay Report showing overdosed? Who did the testing?

TP posted the results in his Riptropin thread on PM, you would need to discuss with him the specifics if you are interested in more detail.

 

[ProfessorX]

TP posted the results in his Riptropin thread on PM, you would need to discuss with him the specifics if you are interested in more detail.

Oh I see.....I source posted test results of a product he's selling

I see.....members should send in there own personal samples of those

Compare TPs results to their Black Tops that they were sold

The ANG source told us the Black Tops he sent out for testing were 98% pure/10IU vials (GH Serum 30-50ng/mL).....but.....I doubt that They are 1/2 that dose

 

[muscle96ss]

Oh I see.....I source posted test results of a product he's selling

I see.....members should send in there own personal samples of those

Compare TPs results to their Black Tops that they were sold

The ANG source told us the Black Tops he sent out for testing were 98% pure/10IU vials.....but.....I doubt that They are 1/2 that dose

Its funny, I remember Dr. Jim bitching about these sources are just remailers and don't even both to test their own stuff. Then someone goes further than anyone else and actually tests his own products to ensure that he is getting what he is ordering, and people still aren't satisfied. I understand the distrust present when someone reports their own tests which is why I told you to contact him yourself. The details about certain things cannot be discussed in public forums, but I am certain that the testing process was done correctly.

 

[ProfessorX]

Its funny, I remember Dr. Jim bitching about these sources are just remailers and don't even both to test their own stuff. Then someone goes further than anyone else and actually tests his own products to ensure that he is getting what he is ordering, and people still aren't satisfied. I understand the distrust present when someone reports their own tests which is why I told you to contact him yourself. The details about certain things cannot be discussed in public forums, but I am certain that the testing process was done correctly.

Well, I can tell you from my testing experience with one particular Generic......Bait n Switch was done not long after the Pure Product was dished out and Blood Work was done....so.....it's a very common business practice done with Generic GH


Now that there's an accredited lab to send samples to......all these questions can be easily answered by individual members now. Anyone can send in there own samples for peace of mind....with no DRAMA or POLITICS or SECOND GUESSING

 

[muscle96ss]

Well, I can tell you from my testing experience with one particular Generic......Bait n Switch was done not long after the Pure Product was dished out and Blood Work was done....so.....it's a very common business practice done with GH

You have to understand that this is a business for the sellers and there are plenty of unscrupulous and bad sellers as well as there are good sellers; just as there are in any other venue. You have to do a lot of research, like you do with anything you buy in real life, in order to ensure that the people you are dealing with are trustworthy. Its healthy to be skeptical as you are, but as you gain experience it becomes much easier to see through people and learn who to trust and who not to.

 

[ProfessorX]

You have to understand that this is a business for the sellers and there are plenty of unscrupulous and bad sellers as well as there are good sellers; just as there are in any other venue. You have to do a lot of research, like you do with anything you buy in real life, in order to ensure that the people you are dealing with are trustworthy. Its healthy to be skeptical as you are, but as you gain experience it becomes much easier to see through people and learn who to trust and who not to.

If I was injecting an unregulated counterfeit product (commonly underdosed and low purity) bought on the black market and had an Accredited Lab that I could personally send a sample to.......I'd have it tested for peace of mind

 

[rpbb]

Its funny, I remember Dr. Jim bitching about these sources are just remailers and don't even both to test their own stuff. Then someone goes further than anyone else and actually tests his own products to ensure that he is getting what he is ordering, and people still aren't satisfied. I understand the distrust present when someone reports their own tests which is why I told you to contact him yourself. The details about certain things cannot be discussed in public forums, but I am certain that the testing process was done correctly.

I like it when a source gets his own gear tested, but it has to be backed up a by a random test by a member who bought the gear without the source knowing it was going ro be tested to really count. For example, Pharmacom posted all his hplc testing results on his steroids, but it was also verified with random testing at anaboliclab. In fact, he is having a hard time selling his hgh here because he hasnt gotten it tested. We had another source come through here who photoshopped some tests and got called out on it.

There are sources here as well that offer to pay for the testing. This is after the member has bought the gear without telling the source he is going to send it to SIMEC for testing. Sources have said to guys here that have complained about gear to go ahead and send it out for testing and they'll pay for it

But I do believe the sources that pass both tests, are rewarded. Btw, This isn't a knock on tp or any other source over there.

 

[muscle96ss]

I agree that transparent lab testing is the best way to go; but its not as simple as you guys make it. There is a lot of time and money involved. In any event, I have discussed things briefly with RP and we are up for the project.

 

[ProfessorX]

I agree that transparent lab testing is the best way to go; but its not as simple as you guys make it. There is a lot of time and money involved. In any event, I have discussed things briefly with RP and we are up for the project.

It is that simple. I've done ton of testing...I have several U.S. Accredited Labs that I use also

Very easy....but yes.....lots of time n money

But compared to all that Blood Work done...it's nothing

 

[rpbb]

I agree that transparent lab testing is the best way to go; but its not as simple as you guys make it. There is a lot of time and money involved. In any event, I have discussed things briefly with RP and we are up for the project.

I saw your post over at pm, that's awesome. Millard set up a similar program over here at anaboliclab.com for steroids, so I am very familiar with all the work required, and it's very very difficult, but doable. Check out the website, and read millards threads, it might help with what you guys are trying to do

 

[rpbb]

It is that simple. I've done ton of testing...I have several U.S. Accredited Labs that I use also

Very easy....but yes.....lots of time n money

But compared to all that Blood Work done...it's nothing

Can you get hgh tested in the US legally, or are the labs blocked from doing it the way they are with steroids

 

[ProfessorX]

I saw your post over at pm, that's awesome. Millard set up a similar program over here at anaboliclab.com for steroids, so I am very familiar with all the work required, and it's very very difficult, but doable. Check out the website, and read millards threads, it might help with what you guys are trying to do

rpbb:

Here's a good example of what I've been saying. This is a recent quote from PM

(This is not a Jab but merely an observation of the "Testing Knowledge" at PM"

"Hope someone can help me out here...did a serum test with. 6fingers white tops at 5 iu last week 3 hours after injection... Now my serum level came back at 13.7 which is not bad for only 5 iu but my igf levels came back at only 143...now I have been running 5 ius for a few weeks now but should my igf levels be higher ? I did a serum test 8 weeks ago using only 3.3 iu of 6fingers red tops and my serum level was 6.5 but my igf levels were 291... So I'm a little confused as to why if my serum levels are higher but my igf levels are lower ...any help on this would be truly appreciated"

See, the focus is on the GH Serums. Also, there is no actual Lab Analyis of the vial that produced GH Serum 13.7/6.5 to confirm any accurate concentration with GH Serums (we've debunked this using HPLC/Blood Work)

I see now where the confusion is:

GH SERUM cannot determine the quality or potency of HGH

This is a common misconception often mentioned on bodybuilding forums
This is a common misconception often mentioned on bodybuilding forums
This is a common misconception often mentioned on bodybuilding forums

HGH serum levels will not tell you "how strong" the growth hormone is, only whether it is real or not. (GH PROTEIN, Somatropin, Somatrem, quality unknown)

"In normal plasma the bound fraction for 22K HGH (Somatropin) averaged 50.1%. Above a hGH level of about 20ng/mL the bound fraction declines in concentration-dependent manner due to saturation of the binding protein. The complexed (bound) hGH has important implications for metabolism, distribution, and biological activity."

GH Serums determine GH Protein Concentration in Blood Serum at time of testing.....not the amount of GH inside the vial that has been injected.

The spurious relationship between serum IGF1 levels and growth response precludes the use of IGF1 as a surrogate marker for efficacy.(NOT GH SERUM)

Low IGF1s is more of an indicator than any GH Serum result (High/Low)

 

[rpbb]

rpbb:

Here's a good example of what I've been saying. This is a recent quote from PM

(This is not a Jab but merely an observation of the "Testing Knowledge" at PM"

"Hope someone can help me out here...did a serum test with. 6fingers white tops at 5 iu last week 3 hours after injection... Now my serum level came back at 13.7 which is not bad for only 5 iu but my igf levels came back at only 143...now I have been running 5 ius for a few weeks now but should my igf levels be higher ? I did a serum test 8 weeks ago using only 3.3 iu of 6fingers red tops and my serum level was 6.5 but my igf levels were 291... So I'm a little confused as to why if my serum levels are higher but my igf levels are lower ...any help on this would be truly appreciated"

See, the focus is on the GH Serums. Also, there is no actual Lab Analyis of the vial that produced GH Serum 13.7/6.5 to confirm any accurate concentration with GH Serums (we've debunked this using HPLC/Blood Work)

I see now where the confusion is:

GH SERUM cannot determine the quality or potency of HGH

This is a common misconception often mentioned on bodybuilding forums
This is a common misconception often mentioned on bodybuilding forums
This is a common misconception often mentioned on bodybuilding forums

HGH serum levels will not tell you "how strong" the growth hormone is, only whether it is real or not. (GH PROTEIN, Somatropin, Somatrem, quality unknown)

"In normal plasma the bound fraction for 22K HGH (Somatropin) averaged 50.1%. Above a hGH level of about 20ng/mL the bound fraction declines in concentration-dependent manner due to saturation of the binding protein. The complexed (bound) hGH has important implications for metabolism, distribution, and biological activity."

GH Serums determine GH Protein Concentration in Blood Serum at time of testing.....not the amount of GH inside the vial that has been injected.

The spurious relationship between serum IGF1 levels and growth response precludes the use of IGF1 as a surrogate marker for efficacy.(NOT GH SERUM)

Low IGF1s is more of an indicator than any GH Serum result (High/Low)

not to mention in all the studies I've read for hgh therapy, the majority only speak of igf levels. I agree with the premise that serum levels only tell you if there is hgh in the vial. kind of like labmax for steroids

 

[rpbb]

a source over there even agrees with you


"I feel, and know, that by keep running the serum GH tests you are straying away from the purpose of this thread, which is testing the real clinical (anabolic) effect of the tested GH.
The GH serum tests merely gives an indication to the presence of GH (191AA or 192AA) and certainly not to the quality, purity or biological activity of the product.
In the pharmaceutical realm IGF1 serum tests are done to asses and monitor the clinical effect of the GH with patients, but these tests also just gives an individual indication, as the IGF1 tests are effected by other factors such as sex hormones, corticosteroids, insulin, nutrition status and other individual factors."