MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[Buck1973]

Mr. ProX
Not to be argumentative.
But the studies I have seen and base my testing off of are much different as far as when IGF-1 levels peak.
The way I read this is it takes aprox. a full 24 hours on 20 IU's of Nordi's to see a double in IGF-1 Levels and igf-1 seem to peak in about a week on that Dosage.
Not that I believe everything that is posted in its entirety but I have to base an opinion on something and go from there.
I have also seen guys Serum test and IGF-1 test at the same time about 3 Hours post 10iu inject and slight if any rise in IGF-1 and a great increase in Serum level....
I am not debating which test is superior MS/HPLC, Serum, or IGF-1 testing.
Only to gather as many facts what the limits of each of these tests. how they work and what and when they show us and how they can b used and better understood in use of HGH.

Peace



Systemic IGF-1 levels

Simply stated the synthetic Growth Hormone when administered intramuscularly or subcutaneously in high enough dose results in a release profile that is not pulsatile. The release profile is an elevation and this elevation results in higher levels of systemic IGF-1 in circulation then either an intravenous administration of GH or administration of the pulsatile peptides.

While multiple daily dosings of GHRH/GHRP result in a significant rise in systemic IGF-1 (not graphed out here) they do not over time result in as substantial an elevation of circulating IGF-1 as synthetic GH administered non-intravenously.

To understand the difference in GH in plasma profile of synthetic GH administered by intravenous I provide a copy of the GH study graph identical to the clinical study graph posted above with the addition of the intravenous dosing of GH. As you can see intravenous dosing of GH results in what could be described as a pulse because GH is elevated very high and then clears quickly.

So what does a high dose of synthetic GH administered subcutaneously or intramuscularly (but not by IV) do to systemic levels of IGF-1?

To find out we must switch to a Japanese study which undertook such study.

In Pharmacokinetics and Metabolic Effects of High-Dose Growth Hormone Administration in Healthy Adult Men, Toshiaki Tanaka, et al., Endocrine Journal 1999, 46 (4), 605-612, fifteen healthy normal Japanese adult males aged from 20 to 27 years were administered various doses of recombinant GH (Norditropin). The GH was administered in a single dose at 9:00 a.m. after overnight fasting. Blood samples were collected at 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 12 and 24 hours after the single injection.

The doses administered were: .075iu/kg; .15iu/kg and .30iu/kg
When the average weight of each test subject is accounted for the doses administered approximated: 5iu; 10iu and 20iu

In the higher dose category the study dosed every day for a week and collected blood samples each day.

IGF-1 levels were measured and can be graphed as follows:

From this graph a few quick things can clearly be understood:

• IGF-1 creation is a slow ongoing process that increases every day that you administer GH until it plateaus after a week. This should tell you that there is no fear that anything will specifically interfere with GH's ability to instigate IGF-1 creation. All of the timing protocols which fear that insulin or "this and that" will interfere with IGF-1 creation are baseless and such "write-ups" that call for timing are flawed.
• It is constant GH elevations that result in ever higher levels of systemic IGF-1 creation

What none of this tells us

This does not tell us what is happening locally. By locally I mean IGF-1 that is not made in the liver and circulated systemically. Local IGFs are made in small amounts and used exclusively in the tissue of their birth.

Local IGF-1 in muscle has been demonstrated to be responsible for muscle growth and only if muscle-made IGF-1 is lacking does systemic IGF-1 play a significant (although incomplete) role.

Local IGFs in muscle are increased by growth hormone and testosterone. It is conjectured that pulsatile GH (such as IV dosing) or the use of GHRH/GHRPs results in high levels of muscle IGFs w/o creating high levels of systemic circulating IGFs.

If this proves to be true then that would be an advantage because high systemic levels of IGF-1 are positively correlated w/ cancer and mortality.

More detailed discussions about these sorts of things take place deeper in this thread.

 

[rpbb]

Mr. ProX
Not to be argumentative.
But the studies I have seen and base my testing off of are much different as far as when IGF-1 levels peak.
The way I read this is it takes aprox. a full 24 hours on 20 IU's of Nordi's to see a double in IGF-1 Levels and igf-1 seem to peak in about a week on that Dosage.
Not that I believe everything that is posted in its entirety but I have to base an opinion on something and go from there.
I have also seen guys Serum test and IGF-1 test at the same time about 3 Hours post 10iu inject and slight if any rise in IGF-1 and a great increase in Serum level....
I am not debating which test is superior MS/HPLC, Serum, or IGF-1 testing.
Only to gather as many facts what the limits of each of these tests. how they work and what and when they show us and how they can b used and better understood in use of HGH.

Peace



Systemic IGF-1 levels

Simply stated the synthetic Growth Hormone when administered intramuscularly or subcutaneously in high enough dose results in a release profile that is not pulsatile. The release profile is an elevation and this elevation results in higher levels of systemic IGF-1 in circulation then either an intravenous administration of GH or administration of the pulsatile peptides.

While multiple daily dosings of GHRH/GHRP result in a significant rise in systemic IGF-1 (not graphed out here) they do not over time result in as substantial an elevation of circulating IGF-1 as synthetic GH administered non-intravenously.

To understand the difference in GH in plasma profile of synthetic GH administered by intravenous I provide a copy of the GH study graph identical to the clinical study graph posted above with the addition of the intravenous dosing of GH. As you can see intravenous dosing of GH results in what could be described as a pulse because GH is elevated very high and then clears quickly.

So what does a high dose of synthetic GH administered subcutaneously or intramuscularly (but not by IV) do to systemic levels of IGF-1?

To find out we must switch to a Japanese study which undertook such study.

In Pharmacokinetics and Metabolic Effects of High-Dose Growth Hormone Administration in Healthy Adult Men, Toshiaki Tanaka, et al., Endocrine Journal 1999, 46 (4), 605-612, fifteen healthy normal Japanese adult males aged from 20 to 27 years were administered various doses of recombinant GH (Norditropin). The GH was administered in a single dose at 9:00 a.m. after overnight fasting. Blood samples were collected at 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 12 and 24 hours after the single injection.

The doses administered were: .075iu/kg; .15iu/kg and .30iu/kg
When the average weight of each test subject is accounted for the doses administered approximated: 5iu; 10iu and 20iu

In the higher dose category the study dosed every day for a week and collected blood samples each day.

IGF-1 levels were measured and can be graphed as follows:

From this graph a few quick things can clearly be understood:

• IGF-1 creation is a slow ongoing process that increases every day that you administer GH until it plateaus after a week. This should tell you that there is no fear that anything will specifically interfere with GH's ability to instigate IGF-1 creation. All of the timing protocols which fear that insulin or "this and that" will interfere with IGF-1 creation are baseless and such "write-ups" that call for timing are flawed.
• It is constant GH elevations that result in ever higher levels of systemic IGF-1 creation

What none of this tells us

This does not tell us what is happening locally. By locally I mean IGF-1 that is not made in the liver and circulated systemically. Local IGFs are made in small amounts and used exclusively in the tissue of their birth.

Local IGF-1 in muscle has been demonstrated to be responsible for muscle growth and only if muscle-made IGF-1 is lacking does systemic IGF-1 play a significant (although incomplete) role.

Local IGFs in muscle are increased by growth hormone and testosterone. It is conjectured that pulsatile GH (such as IV dosing) or the use of GHRH/GHRPs results in high levels of muscle IGFs w/o creating high levels of systemic circulating IGFs.

If this proves to be true then that would be an advantage because high systemic levels of IGF-1 are positively correlated w/ cancer and mortality.

More detailed discussions about these sorts of things take place deeper in this thread.

Looking at the second graph, it appears that igf levels climb 50 percent quickly, and double in 24 hours. I was surprised to see the baselines and final values be so high

 

[rpbb]

Mr. ProX
Not to be argumentative.
But the studies I have seen and base my testing off of are much different as far as when IGF-1 levels peak.
The way I read this is it takes aprox. a full 24 hours on 20 IU's of Nordi's to see a double in IGF-1 Levels and igf-1 seem to peak in about a week on that Dosage.
Not that I believe everything that is posted in its entirety but I have to base an opinion on something and go from there.
I have also seen guys Serum test and IGF-1 test at the same time about 3 Hours post 10iu inject and slight if any rise in IGF-1 and a great increase in Serum level....
I am not debating which test is superior MS/HPLC, Serum, or IGF-1 testing.
Only to gather as many facts what the limits of each of these tests. how they work and what and when they show us and how they can b used and better understood in use of HGH.

Peace



Systemic IGF-1 levels

Simply stated the synthetic Growth Hormone when administered intramuscularly or subcutaneously in high enough dose results in a release profile that is not pulsatile. The release profile is an elevation and this elevation results in higher levels of systemic IGF-1 in circulation then either an intravenous administration of GH or administration of the pulsatile peptides.

While multiple daily dosings of GHRH/GHRP result in a significant rise in systemic IGF-1 (not graphed out here) they do not over time result in as substantial an elevation of circulating IGF-1 as synthetic GH administered non-intravenously.

To understand the difference in GH in plasma profile of synthetic GH administered by intravenous I provide a copy of the GH study graph identical to the clinical study graph posted above with the addition of the intravenous dosing of GH. As you can see intravenous dosing of GH results in what could be described as a pulse because GH is elevated very high and then clears quickly.

So what does a high dose of synthetic GH administered subcutaneously or intramuscularly (but not by IV) do to systemic levels of IGF-1?

To find out we must switch to a Japanese study which undertook such study.

In Pharmacokinetics and Metabolic Effects of High-Dose Growth Hormone Administration in Healthy Adult Men, Toshiaki Tanaka, et al., Endocrine Journal 1999, 46 (4), 605-612, fifteen healthy normal Japanese adult males aged from 20 to 27 years were administered various doses of recombinant GH (Norditropin). The GH was administered in a single dose at 9:00 a.m. after overnight fasting. Blood samples were collected at 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 12 and 24 hours after the single injection.

The doses administered were: .075iu/kg; .15iu/kg and .30iu/kg
When the average weight of each test subject is accounted for the doses administered approximated: 5iu; 10iu and 20iu

In the higher dose category the study dosed every day for a week and collected blood samples each day.

IGF-1 levels were measured and can be graphed as follows:

From this graph a few quick things can clearly be understood:

• IGF-1 creation is a slow ongoing process that increases every day that you administer GH until it plateaus after a week. This should tell you that there is no fear that anything will specifically interfere with GH's ability to instigate IGF-1 creation. All of the timing protocols which fear that insulin or "this and that" will interfere with IGF-1 creation are baseless and such "write-ups" that call for timing are flawed.
• It is constant GH elevations that result in ever higher levels of systemic IGF-1 creation

What none of this tells us

This does not tell us what is happening locally. By locally I mean IGF-1 that is not made in the liver and circulated systemically. Local IGFs are made in small amounts and used exclusively in the tissue of their birth.

Local IGF-1 in muscle has been demonstrated to be responsible for muscle growth and only if muscle-made IGF-1 is lacking does systemic IGF-1 play a significant (although incomplete) role.

Local IGFs in muscle are increased by growth hormone and testosterone. It is conjectured that pulsatile GH (such as IV dosing) or the use of GHRH/GHRPs results in high levels of muscle IGFs w/o creating high levels of systemic circulating IGFs.

If this proves to be true then that would be an advantage because high systemic levels of IGF-1 are positively correlated w/ cancer and mortality.

More detailed discussions about these sorts of things take place deeper in this thread.

By the way, I see the word cancer and mortality discussed in alot of these studies, all the more reason to learn as much as possible. Thanks Buck

 

[muscle96ss]

Prof X: What buck has posted is EXACTLY what I was looking for and what I have been talking about. When you inject HGH subq or IM it first has to be absorbed into the serum(blood) from the injection site. Then it still does not magically become IGF-1. It must go through metabolic processes that finally end with the liver converting it to IGF-1. So 2 hours after a subq injection, you haven't even reached peaked serum concentrations from the injection; so there is absolutely no way that you could have already converted enough HGH to double your IGF-1 levels. If that were so, then by the time you hit your peak serum levels and have then converted that to IGF-1, you would have at least 10x your IGF-1 by then.

I know your blood work shows different, but the science and others blood work contradict what you are saying.

 

[rpbb]

Prof X: What buck has posted is EXACTLY what I was looking for and what I have been talking about. When you inject HGH subq or IM it first has to be absorbed into the serum(blood) from the injection site. Then it still does not magically become IGF-1. It must go through metabolic processes that finally end with the liver converting it to IGF-1. So 2 hours after a subq injection, you haven't even reached peaked serum concentrations from the injection; so there is absolutely no way that you could have already converted enough HGH to double your IGF-1 levels. If that were so, then by the time you hit your peak serum levels and have then converted that to IGF-1, you would have at least 10x your IGF-1 by then.

I know your blood work shows different, but the science and others blood work contradict what you are saying.

I read the whole thread at pm, and I didn't see anyone run igf tests with serums to either prove or disprove the profs hypothesis, but I would like to see someone do it. It would require someone to start off with none in their system though

 

[rpbb]

And neither study shows where serum levels have anything to do with IGF levels

 

[rpbb]

I almost forgot, once again, I defer to all of you guys, because the time and effort you guys are putting into this is amazing

 

[Buck1973]

I read the whole thread at pm, and I didn't see anyone run igf tests with serums to either prove or disprove the profs hypothesis, but I would like to see someone do it. It would require someone to start off with none in their system though

There is not a test Like that In the HGH testing thread that I am Aware of.. I will post a thread where there is such a test.. I noticed this when it was posted at the time and asked for clarification, there are others
Judge for yrself.
Professional Muscle

 

[rpbb]

There is not a test Like that In the HGH testing thread that I am Aware of.. I will post a thread where there is such a test.. I noticed this when it was posted at the time and asked for clarification, there are others
Judge for yrself.
Professional Muscle

Thanks buck, I don't have enough posts over there to see it

 

[Buck1973]

Thanks buck, I don't have enough posts over there to see it

Well Sir, than I guess you are not the RP that I Know...
I could copy and paste them but out of respect to the forum and there rules I will not; You must have 50 posts to view this forum. If you make the info found here public, you will be BANNED!!
But it is basically a Serum and a IGF-1 test @ 3:15 post 10IU Injection, First Administration of HGH in like 16 months with a Big serum and a Normal looking IGF-1 score....
Take yr time getting in yr 50

Peace

 

[rpbb]

Well Sir, than I guess you are not the RP that I Know...
I could copy and paste them but out of respect to the forum and there rules I will not; You must have 50 posts to view this forum. If you make the info found here public, you will be BANNED!!
But it is basically a Serum and a IGF-1 test @ 3:15 post 10IU Injection, First Administration of HGH in like 16 months with a Big serum and a Normal looking IGF-1 score....
Take yr time getting in yr 50

Peace

LOL thanks buck, I don't want to post drivel over there to get to 50, but I will eventually get the count up

 

[rpbb]

Well Sir, than I guess you are not the RP that I Know...
I could copy and paste them but out of respect to the forum and there rules I will not; You must have 50 posts to view this forum. If you make the info found here public, you will be BANNED!!
But it is basically a Serum and a IGF-1 test @ 3:15 post 10IU Injection, First Administration of HGH in like 16 months with a Big serum and a Normal looking IGF-1 score....
Take yr time getting in yr 50

Peace

Btw, if you're interested in how the hplc program for steroids was set up over here, check out anaboliclab.com. I see they are talking about it at pm for hgh, maybe it'll help

 

[ProfessorX]

Prof X: What buck has posted is EXACTLY what I was looking for and what I have been talking about. When you inject HGH subq or IM it first has to be absorbed into the serum(blood) from the injection site. Then it still does not magically become IGF-1. It must go through metabolic processes that finally end with the liver converting it to IGF-1. So 2 hours after a subq injection, you haven't even reached peaked serum concentrations from the injection; so there is absolutely no way that you could have already converted enough HGH to double your IGF-1 levels. If that were so, then by the time you hit your peak serum levels and have then converted that to IGF-1, you would have at least 10x your IGF-1 by then.

I know your blood work shows different, but the science and others blood work contradict what you are saying.

IGF1 is elevated quickly (3hrs) It continues to elevate after a 24hr period also
Somatropin.cn

Again, this determines GH and not a peptide (GHRP)

I think Bucks study is from 1999 (Japanese Study using Norditropin) (I'm probably wrong but it doesn't matter)

Again, many different studies using a wide range of mg/IU

There's a Norditropin study using only 5ius SubQ with GH Serums ranging (30-80ng/mL)

Has anyone tried that with LabCorp GH Serums?

You MUST UNDERSTAND all these studies we COPY N PASTE with Francy Graphs, etc are based on VERY CONTROLLED STUDIES
-Subjects go through full physicals
-Subjects are subjected to similar diets during these overnight sudies
- Endo GH is sometimes fully suppressed before admin of Exo GH
-reconstituted GH is measured separately from the syringe itself
-the list goes on and on

BY No Means are these studies based on Steroid users using multiple drugs (possibly).....injecting a vial of a Black Market GH product imported from China....then running to Lab Corp to get Blood Work done....then have that Blood shipped next day to whatever Lab using whatever testing method


It's funny no?

Research:

BIOEQUIVALENCE
FOLLOW-ON (True Generic)
BIOSIMILARS (True Generic)
INNOVATOR (Genotropin)


I really admire everyone's knowledge here and the studying that you have done

But, what I've done is different. I've already figured it out (GH Serum Conspiracy)

This is why I followed this thread so closely at the beginning

But after all the politics got in the way....I decided to do the testing myself...I learned a great deal by doing this

Ive now got other members participating along with sources also

GREAT EXAMPLE:

A source sent out multiple kits to test using the Ole GH Serum
After multiple members getting Very High Serum results on Black Tops
There IGF1 results after 4 weeks were pitiful

Another source was purchasing GH using GH Seum levels (THEY ALL DO THIS. NONE OF THEM LAB TEST ANYTHING)....even with a high GH Serum result....it results in getting a "bad batch" (Low IGF1 level)

So again.......you guys at PM are very resourceful.....it's very simple.....start testing....but REAL TESTING.

Good Luck With It

 

[ProfessorX]

FOR TESTING:

An invoice is generated for the sample to be tested

There is no need to send samples to one person to ship samples

So the invoices can be emailed to multiple "trusted" members, this way they can ship their own personal sample and compare blood work from the same kit

TESTING CAN BE:

IDENTIFY, MG/IU PRESENT

IDENTIFY, MG/IU PRESENT, % PURITY

 

[ProfessorX]

Mr. ProX
Not to be argumentative.
But the studies I have seen and base my testing off of are much different as far as when IGF-1 levels peak.
The way I read this is it takes aprox. a full 24 hours on 20 IU's of Nordi's to see a double in IGF-1 Levels and igf-1 seem to peak in about a week on that Dosage.
Not that I believe everything that is posted in its entirety but I have to base an opinion on something and go from there.
I have also seen guys Serum test and IGF-1 test at the same time about 3 Hours post 10iu inject and slight if any rise in IGF-1 and a great increase in Serum level....
I am not debating which test is superior MS/HPLC, Serum, or IGF-1 testing.
Only to gather as many facts what the limits of each of these tests. how they work and what and when they show us and how they can b used and better understood in use of HGH.

Peace



Systemic IGF-1 levels

Simply stated the synthetic Growth Hormone when administered intramuscularly or subcutaneously in high enough dose results in a release profile that is not pulsatile. The release profile is an elevation and this elevation results in higher levels of systemic IGF-1 in circulation then either an intravenous administration of GH or administration of the pulsatile peptides.

While multiple daily dosings of GHRH/GHRP result in a significant rise in systemic IGF-1 (not graphed out here) they do not over time result in as substantial an elevation of circulating IGF-1 as synthetic GH administered non-intravenously.

To understand the difference in GH in plasma profile of synthetic GH administered by intravenous I provide a copy of the GH study graph identical to the clinical study graph posted above with the addition of the intravenous dosing of GH. As you can see intravenous dosing of GH results in what could be described as a pulse because GH is elevated very high and then clears quickly.

So what does a high dose of synthetic GH administered subcutaneously or intramuscularly (but not by IV) do to systemic levels of IGF-1?

To find out we must switch to a Japanese study which undertook such study.

In Pharmacokinetics and Metabolic Effects of High-Dose Growth Hormone Administration in Healthy Adult Men, Toshiaki Tanaka, et al., Endocrine Journal 1999, 46 (4), 605-612, fifteen healthy normal Japanese adult males aged from 20 to 27 years were administered various doses of recombinant GH (Norditropin). The GH was administered in a single dose at 9:00 a.m. after overnight fasting. Blood samples were collected at 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 12 and 24 hours after the single injection.

The doses administered were: .075iu/kg; .15iu/kg and .30iu/kg
When the average weight of each test subject is accounted for the doses administered approximated: 5iu; 10iu and 20iu

In the higher dose category the study dosed every day for a week and collected blood samples each day.

IGF-1 levels were measured and can be graphed as follows:

From this graph a few quick things can clearly be understood:

• IGF-1 creation is a slow ongoing process that increases every day that you administer GH until it plateaus after a week. This should tell you that there is no fear that anything will specifically interfere with GH's ability to instigate IGF-1 creation. All of the timing protocols which fear that insulin or "this and that" will interfere with IGF-1 creation are baseless and such "write-ups" that call for timing are flawed.
• It is constant GH elevations that result in ever higher levels of systemic IGF-1 creation

What none of this tells us

This does not tell us what is happening locally. By locally I mean IGF-1 that is not made in the liver and circulated systemically. Local IGFs are made in small amounts and used exclusively in the tissue of their birth.

Local IGF-1 in muscle has been demonstrated to be responsible for muscle growth and only if muscle-made IGF-1 is lacking does systemic IGF-1 play a significant (although incomplete) role.

Local IGFs in muscle are increased by growth hormone and testosterone. It is conjectured that pulsatile GH (such as IV dosing) or the use of GHRH/GHRPs results in high levels of muscle IGFs w/o creating high levels of systemic circulating IGFs.

If this proves to be true then that would be an advantage because high systemic levels of IGF-1 are positively correlated w/ cancer and mortality.

More detailed discussions about these sorts of things take place deeper in this thread.

THERES SO MANY GRAPHS, STUDIES, ETC

NONE OF THESE ARE BASED ON THE TESTING METHODS OF MOST BBing FORUMS BUCK

BUT HERE's ANOTHER ONE FOR YA:



AS YOU CAN SEE...GH SERUMS VARY AND ARE EXTREMELY UNSTABLE...(Short Half-Life)

THE RECENT TESTING (IGF1 - GH SERUM) THAT WAS DONE

BLACK TOPS (High Serum) 30-50ng/mL (IGF1 400s)
RED TOP (Low Serum) 6.9ng/mL (IGF1 495)

BOTH OF THESE PRODUCED SIMILAR IGF1s IN MULTIPLE MEMBERS EVEN THOUGH THE GH SERUM RESULTS VARIED

THE FUNNY THING IS ......I BELIEVE THAT BOTH OF THESE (Red/Black Tops) ARE 1/2 THE DOSE AS ADVERTISED. (Just my guess....SIMEC is testing)

SIMILAR TO JIM's TESTING......

 

[muscle96ss]

THERES SO MANY GRAPHS, STUDIES, ETC

NONE OF THESE ARE BASED ON THE TESTING METHODS OF MOST BBing FORUMS BUCK

BUT HERE's ANOTHER ONE FOR YA:

View attachment 32451

AS YOU CAN SEE...GH SERUMS VARY AND ARE EXTREMELY UNSTABLE...(Short Half-Life)

THE RECENT TESTING (IGF1 - GH SERUM) THAT WAS DONE

BLACK TOPS (High Serum) 30-50ng/mL (IGF1 400s)
RED TOP (Low Serum) 6.9ng/mL (IGF1 495)

BOTH OF THESE PRODUCED SIMILAR IGF1s IN MULTIPLE MEMBERS EVEN THOUGH THE GH SERUM RESULTS VARIED

THE FUNNY THING IS ......I BELIEVE THAT BOTH OF THESE (Red/Black Tops) ARE 1/2 THE DOSE AS ADVERTISED. (Just my guess....SIMEC is testing)

SIMILAR TO JIM's TESTING......

A couple points:

Firstly you mention serums are not stable. They are not supposed to be stable and nobody mentioned they were. However, they all peak at some point, which is the time when we are measuring them.

Secondly, the graph you posted is almost identical to bucks where the peak IGF-1's are around 20 hours out. In fact, I don't see the IGF-1's even coming close to doubling at 2 hours on the graphs you posted.

Lastly, I keep repeating myself on this, but it is probably one of the most important points and keeps being ignored. That is that comparing serums between multiple individuals is COMPLETELY USELESS!!! What I score on serums from the same GH as buck has ALWAYS been vastly different and comparing the 2 doesn't mean anything. However, comparing serums within the same individual is VERY VALUABLE. Give me 5 GH's to test and I will do a serum GH test on all 5 under the same conditions and if one of those GH's is a standard where we know the amount of GH, then I bet we can predict the values of the other GH's within a close proximity. In fact I plan on proving this shortly with my own experimentation; which I will talk to you about later. But in any event you keep talking about issues involving comparing tests from various members. That is meaningless, you can't compare their tests against one another. Their IGF-1's also are going to vary as IGF-1 is dependent on a number of individual variable as well.

 

[ProfessorX]

Sigh......ok buddy

No Offense....but I see why JIM quit testing

You Guys are very "Passionate"

I've recently manipulated my IGF1 so crazy that everyone thought my GH contained IGF1 (Pep)

BUT I HAD THE PRODUCT TESTED TO PROVE MY POINT

We've already done the testing Blood Work, HPLC

ANG Source wasted soooooo much time with the Serums

I've got 2 sources that understand this now

Mands mentioned GH Serums didn't reflect dose

But your recent post at PM say otherwise

It's TOTALLY false

"Black Top 51ng/mL OVERDOSED!"

THATS VERY MISLEADING TO THE PM MEMBERS

Your wasting energy here trying to "prove my blood work a lie" or question my testing results by Accredited Labs

Just do the testing yourself

Very easy

It'll be FUN

Use One Kit.....Blood Work (IGF1 GH Serum), SIMEC (HPLC)

Good Luck With It

 

[rpbb]

A couple points:

Firstly you mention serums are not stable. They are not supposed to be stable and nobody mentioned they were. However, they all peak at some point, which is the time when we are measuring them.

Secondly, the graph you posted is almost identical to bucks where the peak IGF-1's are around 20 hours out. In fact, I don't see the IGF-1's even coming close to doubling at 2 hours on the graphs you posted.

Lastly, I keep repeating myself on this, but it is probably one of the most important points and keeps being ignored. That is that comparing serums between multiple individuals is COMPLETELY USELESS!!! What I score on serums from the same GH as buck has ALWAYS been vastly different and comparing the 2 doesn't mean anything. However, comparing serums within the same individual is VERY VALUABLE. Give me 5 GH's to test and I will do a serum GH test on all 5 under the same conditions and if one of those GH's is a standard where we know the amount of GH, then I bet we can predict the values of the other GH's within a close proximity. In fact I plan on proving this shortly with my own experimentation; which I will talk to you about later. But in any event you keep talking about issues involving comparing tests from various members. That is meaningless, you can't compare their tests against one another. Their IGF-1's also are going to vary as IGF-1 is dependent on a number of individual variable as well.

From what I can tell, the prof is saying too many decisions about the hgh are being based on serum tests, when IGF is the only thing that will tell you if the hgh is good or not absent of hplc.

The studies I've read always seem to talk about igf levels, and very seldom discuss serum levels. Yet at the same time, it seems to be a test offered by labcorp, so it must be good for something

 

[rpbb]

Sigh......ok buddy

No Offense....but I see why JIM quit testing

You Guys are very "Passionate"

I've recently manipulated my IGF1 so crazy that everyone thought my GH contained IGF1 (Pep)

BUT I HAD THE PRODUCT TESTED TO PROVE MY POINT

We've already done the testing Blood Work, HPLC

ANG Source wasted soooooo much time with the Serums

I've got 2 sources that understand this now

Mands mentioned GH Serums didn't reflect dose

But your recent post at PM say otherwise

It's TOTALLY false

Your wasting energy here trying to "prove my blood work a lie" or question my testing results by Accredited Labs

Just do the testing yourself

Very easy

It'll be FUN

Use One Kit.....Blood Work (IGF1 GH Serum), SIMEC (HPLC)

Good Luck With It

And by the way, from my own personnel view in the world of anabolic steroid's and hgh, the only thing that counts for me is hplc. The human body is too unpredictable to correlate and medication with blood levels. It's why I'm a very big supporter of the hplc testing we do at anaboliclab. The battles we used to have around here about blood testing were very painful

 

[ProfessorX]

And by the way, from my own personnel view in the world of anabolic steroid's and hgh, the only thing that counts for me is hplc. The human body is too unpredictable to correlate and medication with blood levels. It's why I'm a very big supporter of the hplc testing we do at anaboliclab. The battles we used to have around here about blood testing were very painful

I think it works for both Test Serums and GH Serums.....it's hit or miss with Test Serums....GH Serums not so much

HPLC testing a Testosterone product with "bad blood work" would be a good experiment

Not sure how accurate Blood Work is for determining if my bottle of Test P contains 100mgs or 77.8 mgs