Math question about test and blood levels

[skywalk]

thanks for all the responses!
my blood test showed around 3500 but I frontloaded 750mg, and started 750mg per week. my test levels are definitely not anywhere near where they should be and I suspect the first vial I used might have been prop instead of Test E. (mislabelled) hence the insane pip.

i'm into my third week, 2nd bottle now and the first shot didnt have any pip, which is what i expect from test E. i'm wondering if I should do a small frontload again with this, since my blood test shows less test than I expected.

if I did indeed pin prop for the first 2 weeks, then start on test E on week 3, I will not achieve SSL till week 6 or so, and my cycle is only 8 weeks long. argh the joys of UGL products!

 

[Colt44]

What lab are you running man?

 

[skywalk]

Unigen, my favorite of all that i've tried. But it's from thailand and sometimes shit like this happens

 

[Colt44]

At least it wasn't completely bunk I guess. Unigen, is that the new Genesis?

 

[xupc]

If you're doing 750/week of test E, how do you calculate how much test you should have via blood test, once you reach steady state levels?

what should the blood test results show, so that you know your shit isn't underdosed?

(I know it fluctuates, but a ballpark figure would be good.)

steroidplot.com/ might help you get a broad understanding of where should you be.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Yes. Dose-response curve is logarithmic (not linear). At some point, large increases in dose produce negligible increases in serum concentrations. Also, individual response is unpredictable. Results from the simple "times 10" rule should be taken with a large grain of salt.

I do not dispute this. My observation is that doubling the dose will not always double the concentration.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172

Please, correct me if I misinterpreted this. I only did a brief search and found little in regards to the pharmacodynamics of testosterone depot. This study claims to have controlled diet and activity. All subjects received a GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production during the study period.

I may have mispoken earlier. Maybe I can clarify. The effect of doubling the dose does not seem to double the serum concentration. Mathematically,

___
I am curious if you even read the study. Or, did you just copy/paste from another board.

It is very clear that you did NOT read the study nor understand the study. This is glaringly obvious.

____

Do yourself a favor and read the study before posting BS. I will have one more thing to say about your posts.

How do we know he did not read the study?
The following is a direct quote from the study. [Check out the p value.]

"Serum total and free testosterone levels (Table2), measured during week 16, 1 wk after the previous injection, were linearly dependent on the testosterone dose (P = 0.0001)." http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172

 

[TheGuy85]

These levels are based on Test E a longer ester.

What would the levels look like with say Prop at the same total mg a week? 500mg
the same? Less?

Depending on when you had blood taken after injection, test prop should yield higher levels. Though I am still unsure of when T levels peak after Prop injections. Here are 2 studies:

http://anabolicsteroidcalculator.com/resources/articles/pharmacology/article_18.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686335/

thanks for all the responses!
my blood test showed around 3500 but I frontloaded 750mg, and started 750mg per week. my test levels are definitely not anywhere near where they should be and I suspect the first vial I used might have been prop instead of Test E. (mislabelled) hence the insane pip.

i'm into my third week, 2nd bottle now and the first shot didnt have any pip, which is what i expect from test E. i'm wondering if I should do a small frontload again with this, since my blood test shows less test than I expected.

if I did indeed pin prop for the first 2 weeks, then start on test E on week 3, I will not achieve SSL till week 6 or so, and my cycle is only 8 weeks long. argh the joys of UGL products!

Depending on when you had blood taken after pinning, I would expect Test Prop to give you higher levels.

 

[TruBodybuilder1989]

Results Are In:

Since May 5th I've been cruising at around 250-300mg of Test-E a week. I shot on Monday and Thursday are my days. I shot on June 19th in the late afternoon, I got bloods at 835am on Monday June 23rd. My results are as follows (see below)

Total test (SERUM) running 250-300mg test-e a week (as my cruise). Results are NOT GOOD, only 1296 ng/dl

Estrogen running 10mg aromasin EOD. Results are good 23.7, ranges are like 5-44

ALT is high - 51, range is 0-44

Bun is high - 22, range is 6-20

Monocytes are high - 13%, range is 4-12%

RDW is high - 19.2%, range is 12.3 to 15.4% (could be vitamin b12 deficiency) ----> Any more input?

RBC is high - 6.05, range is 4.14-5.80

**The Test-e Results are extremely worrying to me at the moment, I have contacted my source for further explanation**

 

[Colt44]

Results Are In:

Since May 5th I've been cruising at around 250-300mg of Test-E a week. I shot on Monday and Thursday are my days. I shot on June 19th in the late afternoon, I got bloods at 835am on Monday June 23rd. My results are as follows (see below)

Total test (SERUM) running 250-300mg test-e a week (as my cruise). Results are NOT GOOD, only 1296 ng/dl

Estrogen running 10mg aromasin EOD. Results are good 23.7, ranges are like 5-44

ALT is high - 51, range is 0-44

Bun is high - 22, range is 6-20

Monocytes are high - 13%, range is 4-12%

RDW is high - 19.2%, range is 12.3 to 15.4% (could be vitamin b12 deficiency) ----> Any more input?

RBC is high - 6.05, range is 4.14-5.80

**The Test-e Results are extremely worrying to me at the moment, I have contacted my source for further explanation**

What did Titan have to say about it?

 

[TruBodybuilder1989]

What did Titan have to say about it?

He isn't my source, I only have 30ml of his deca from before he went to this forum. RSL is my current source, he is out of Town until tomorrow. I pretty much said "I've been a good customer here, brought you other customers for you. The people I bring in trust my judgement, please correct this as the levels should be higher. I can easily take myself and my clientele elsewhere''. ----> Pretty much in a nut-shell. I did talk to Titan since we all came from the same board and he said those level were def low and that there is no reason for that.

 

[TheGuy85]

I haven't seen many people come back with amazing results at that dosage, using ugl gear, to be honest. What were you expecting TT results to be?

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

I haven't seen many people come back with amazing results at that dosage, using ugl gear, to be honest. What were you expecting TT results to be?

Every UGL I ever used has had me at about the 10x dosage rule except SteriodsFax (Sciroxx) test e, 500mg/week put me at 1400ng/dl..

If a UGL is under dosing test for as cheap as it is lookout!!

 

[TheGuy85]

Agreed. I think he should have had at the very least hit 1500 (this is still low) when levels peaked but i have no clue what he is paying for his test. Sources raws may not be very good, source doesn't add enough powder and you get shitty test. I guess I would be pretty pissed cruising at that dose and getting those results lol. You figure you are on cycle injecting 500mg ew on cycle and not even breaking 2500, that would suck, but hey if it was dirt cheap, you could always pin more oil .

How much did you pay anyway for a vial, if you don't mind me asking.

Anyone know when TT peaks after test prop pin in general? I've looked at different material and came to different conclusions.

 

[TheGuy85]

http://benthamscience.com/open/toandroj/articles/V004/3TOANDROJ.pdf

Monkeys, not a good comparison to humans .

http://www.anabolicsteroidcalculator.com/resources/articles/pharmacology/article_18.pdf - old

 

[TruBodybuilder1989]

Agreed. I think he should have had at the very least hit 1500 (this is still low) when levels peaked but i have no clue what he is paying for his test. Sources raws may not be very good, source doesn't add enough powder and you get shitty test. I guess I would be pretty pissed cruising at that dose and getting those results lol. You figure you are on cycle injecting 500mg ew on cycle and not even breaking 2500, that would suck, but hey if it was dirt cheap, you could always pin more oil .

How much did you pay anyway for a vial, if you don't mind me asking.

Anyone know when TT peaks after test prop pin in general? I've looked at different material and came to different conclusions.

between 31.50$ and 35$ a vial for 10ml of "250". My old source I was paying 40-45$ for 10ml 250 and his was fire. To bad his health issues flared up.

 

[TheGuy85]

Yeah that's pretty cheap for a vial of test e. 40-45 sounds more realistic. I guess it's true you get what u pay for. I've watched a source I use have his test p go from $25 to $35 a vial in the past couple years. Every lab I look at or use has upped their test p price by 5 dollars. It was strange since it all happened around the same time and a bunch of labs were getting accused of using low dose of test e and selling it as test p.

Don't get me wrong you can find good gear for low prices but it might require some work to find and most people aren't going to turn you on to a private source unless they have known u for awhile. Be weary of easily accessible labs with low prices . Well, be weary of all easily accessible ugl labs period.

 

[TruBodybuilder1989]

Yeah that's pretty cheap for a vial of test e. 40-45 sounds more realistic. I guess it's true you get what u pay for. I've watched a source I use have his test p go from $25 to $35 a vial in the past couple years. Every lab I look at or use has upped their test p price by 5 dollars. It was strange since it all happened around the same time and a bunch of labs were getting accused of using low dose of test e and selling it as test p.

Don't get me wrong you can find good gear for low prices but it might require some work to find and most people aren't going to turn you on to a private source unless they have known u for awhile. Be weary of easily accessible labs with low prices . Well, be weary of all easily accessible ugl labs period.

All the sources I've used have been private. Even some more well known labs I've go access to know even though they aren't accepting new members because I know some people. I get what ya say.

 

[TruBodybuilder1989]

The more and more I read the more and more I feel my gear is about spot on. I've read numerous Watson Cyp threads, where 200mg was adminstered through two weekly pins. Bloods were four days after pin and levels are between 1000-1100 ng per dl. Been also reading the SHBG plays a big role. I did note now Watson cyp thread saying 250mg put him at 2500 ng per dl. But that doesn't seem to be anywhere near common??

 

[Michael Scally MD]

The more and more I read the more and more I feel my gear is about spot on. I've read numerous Watson Cyp threads, where 200mg was adminstered through two weekly pins. Bloods were four days after pin and levels are between 1000-1100 ng per dl. Been also reading the SHBG plays a big role. I did note now Watson cyp thread saying 250mg put him at 2500 ng per dl. But that doesn't seem to be anywhere near common??

____
The longer you wait after the pin, the lower the value. If you are dividing up the dose to twice per week, the likelihood is about 1,000 ng/dL might be the low point. Again, if you are trying to see the UG dosing accuracy, IMO the peak is the best, albeit indirect, gauge. Use the entire dose and do not split. [A common problem is many labs will only provide a report >1,500 ng/dL.]

On another point, who/why would anyone cycle at 200-250! Unless, this is combined with another AAS.

 

[TheGuy85]

Yeah I haven't seen too many guys get prescribed over 100mg ew or 200mg e2w. Maybe there is a difference in some hypogonadal men versus eugonadal men and a difference in response to dosages. At my pharmacy 1 10 mL vial of test cyp (200mg/mL) is $120.

Another question to ask is are these people claiming to be using Watson test cyp actually prescribed it or are they getting it black market. I've seen guys say they are taking 200mg of test a week for trt and It is prescribed and I am wondering if they are altering their results. 200mg of test ew for trt seems to be the max. So the question is are they pinning 200mg ew and if so what is TT coming back as.