Maximize Pecs on Gear

[Equinob]

Hey guys, new to the forum. Going into my fourth week of gear and had some questions.

36, 6'2, 200 14%bf
400mg Cyp/400mg Deca

Just a quick history, I've been training seriously for 12 years. Started at 185 after college with probably 20%+bf. Dropped to a lean 175, 9%bf and steadily built to where I am now, which has been a plateau for several years now. I've worked with several trainers, gone on bulking programs and basically either gotten fat, or lost any gains once I tried to cut bf. So my goal here is to break the 200 threshold and ideally put on at least another 20. But my main objective is to catch up my upper body, particularly my pecs, with my lower body. I have good-sized strong legs, a byproduct of my trainers philosophy that strong legs help build a big upper body. But no matter how I mixed up my routines my upper body always lagged, my pecs the worst of it, which was really disappointing because that's almost always what grows first on others. In particular, I'd like to see my pecs stick out further than my rib cage, and be wider on the lower outer corners. I know shape is genetic, but it seems with 20% more size they would give me the desired look, shape notwithstanding, and the classic "shelf" look with clear separation from my torso on all three sides.

4 weeks into my gear and I'm definitely making gains, but they seem proportional to what I already had. So here's the question:

If my goal is to maximize pectoral gains during the next 9 weeks, should I work more on my chest at the expense of other parts? I don't want to overtrain either, but I also don't want to cannibalize growth from my chest by working legs and back equally, or too close to chest day.

I was thinking maybe train chest on a day by itself only once a week with at least one day rest before and after between body parts? Right now im doing M pin & chest, T back, W off, Th pin & legs, F shoulders bis & tris, S&S cardio. The other thought was to focus on specific lifts to build out the pecs the way I want.

Currently my pec routine is incline bench - bar or db, flat bench, incline flys. I wrap this up with decline bench bar, and dips.

Appreciate any advice.

 

[dennis]

I am wondering if you are using correct form ??? I am on cycle now and I lift chest 2x per week..one heavy day and one light day.

 

[Equinob]

Hey Dennis thanks for the thought ... I like to think I have some of the best form in the gym thanks to the hundreds of dollars I've spent on trainers over the years LOL I have done heavy & light days for chest during the same week, and not seen different results. I suppose it's a little late after starting gear to second guess my strategy, but I sort of expected gear would make the difference by itself. I just don't want to start experimenting and get it wrong while I have this opportunity (access to good gear and time).

When I lift I feel good connection to the muscle, good contractions and stretch, and good strength gains, I get a nice burn during, and soreness the next couple of days after. it just doesn't show up in volume. My current 3 rep bench is 8x235. My trainers have all come to the conclusion that I'm a kind of ecto-endomorph hard-gainer. I have definitely worked to get every gain I've made. But my chest and shoulder have always lagged behind the rest of my growth. My large rib cage and good posture doesn't help their appearance either.

So are you recommending a heavy and light day while on? Just worried about recovery time at my age and don't want to over train.

Oh yeah, I should mention I'm consuming about 3300-4000 calories/day, protein heavy.

 

[bigrobbie]

Maybe I missed it, but what is your current chest routine? What exercises? How many exercises per workout? That sort of thing...

 

[tadolfi]

Combining the two points thrown out here...
If form is good and you keep other parts going, perhaps have a compound day and an isolation day.

For example: Monday is barbell lifts for compound...Incline at 30 degrees, flat bench or floor press, decline press (if you want it in there) and then 45 degree incline (perhaps go wider width grip for more stretch, but keep an eye on the shoulders for too much stress).
Then try some dips (And I would use the dips as a lower chest tie in exeercise instead of decline, but that's just me)
Next, close grip bench as another tricep cross over exercise, and then finish triceps off the way you want.

On Wed. throw biceps in with legs and open up Thursday for chest and shoulders doing isolation work with dumbells and cables.
Incline flyes, cable cross overs, flat bench flyes and then work shoulders.

Try this for a couple weeks and see how it goes - write things down including how you felt after, and even the next day to monitor any problems.

It's wide open as to the options and this is just one opinion - you have to gauge what may be best.

Good luck on the rest of the cycle!

 

[ski1969]

I believe the key to pecs is building the "upper pecs" through incline presses with barbell/dumbbells. When doing any incline press with a barbell, I bring it right to my chin and go as "deep" as I can with teh movement for a great stretch. Alter your grip width to work inner/outer muscles.

I never do decline presses, but I work the lower chest with dips, palms out, legs in front of you.

Take all exercises to exhaustion - super sets are great for this - one set of a compound movement like an incline press followed immediately by a set of an isolation movement like dumbbell flies.

 

[dennis]

I have really "filled in " my upper pecs over the past 6 weeks by : First using heavy day then light day spread about 3 -4 days apart.On incline barbell I bring bar down slow and let rest at very top of pecs just for a second ,then I pinch my shoulder blades together and power it up..exploding it off the chest but definatley after a short pause at the bottom.I always finish up with flat bench cable flys...holding each rep at the top and squeezing the pecs like hell for a few seconds then lowering and repeat..and really focusing form to feel like you are reaching around a large barrel.Mix in some high reps with low reps and try a few negatives on heavy day flat bb.:tiphat

 

[Thickneck]

Good job losing 11% bodyfat . Try on all your pressing movements to keeps your shoulder blades pulled together tight threw out the whole set . It gives the pecs a bigger stretch . 90 % of the time I start with inclines . I have not flat benched seriously for many years . I always wind up getting tendonitus in my right shoulder . Many people I've known over the years have either ripped a pec or tore there rotator cuffs , all from flat benching . I think it's more a ego lift then a builder . control the weight and go to failure and you should grow .

 

[Equinob]

Bigrobbie, my current chest routine was sort of buried in my first post.

Right now im doing
Monday - (pin 1) chest
Tuesday - back
Wednesday - cardio
Thursday - (pin 2) legs
Friday - shoulders bis & tris
Saturday - cardio
Sunday - off

Currently my pec routine is
incline bench - bar or db 4x6-8
Flat bench - 4x6-8
incline flys - 3x8
decline bench bar 3x6-8
dips to exhaustion

Some good suggestions here guys, thanks. Dennis/tadolfi I could definitely add some iso chest on Thursday.

Since I'm using gear I just didn't know if the usual routines mattered. For instance, prior to this I did legs first on Monday, and chest Friday with Thursday, Saturday & Sunday off to max recovery. But since I'm on gear I figured it didn't matter when I did my legs. Should I do chest on Tuesday and give it a day after my Monday pin to absorb for better recovery? These are the things I don't know.

Thursday was an amazing day for leg gains, I actually had to hold myself back to avoid injury, as I felt like I could keep stacking on plates. Eager to see if I have similar results on chest day. But then again, my legs were strong to begin with. So do I need to hold back on legs and focus on my upper body for a change?

 

[bigrobbie]

If you're having as much trouble as you suggest getting your chest to grow I think you need to be doing weight that you are really pushing by the time you reach your set rep count. On your last set of each exercise then have a spotter help you force at least 2 more reps.

Also, I think people forget about negative reps. Once every 2 weeks I'd do a flat bench session of very heavy negatives.

I would also not overlook the possible fact that you are relying on your tri's too much. Try to pre-exhaust your triceps and shoulders. You could do a tricep/shoulders workout and make your last exercise of that workout would be hit the flat bench. You may be suprised how much LESS weight you can push....if it's a huge percentage less, then you are probably relying too much on tris and front delts.....

just some thoughts. :tiphat

 

[Equinob]

Bigrobbie, spot on advice. I do focus a lot on my negative resistance, but could benefit from doing a whole routine hitting them.Pre-exhaust is worth a try to get to the root of the problem. My tri's might be a possible culprit, but I seriously doubt my shoulders are as they are the second most deficient muscle group I have trouble growing, but I am noticing some gains only four weeks in. If only my chest would co-operate.

HERE'S A COUPLE OF SPECIFIC QUESTIONS RE: GEAR

I'm pinning on Mon & Thur. with chest on Monday. Should I move chest to Tuesday to give the gear an added day to absorb and implement into my workout?

Also, I know that the half-life is something like 5 days, but Thur. to Mon. is 4 days between, so is that another reason to move chest to Tuesday as gear is at it's lowest point during the week?

Or does any of that matter?

I also see a lot guys that use gear ending up with massive upper bodies, and tiny legs. So maybe I should do a few chest only weeks, working just the chest twice during that week and nothing else. Would that kind of spot focus make any difference to the chest growth, or just shortchange my results in other muscle groups?

Training on gear is still somewhat of a mystery to me, assuming the same rules off gear don't apply.

 

[dennis]

I am also wondering now about the grip you are using on bb bench....wide/narrow ???
I am on a 6 day training split where each muscle group gets hit 2 x per week.One heavy day,one light day.I am on gear and this is working.Diet is everything for me though,if I lighten up on that anywhere my body will suffer.

 

[Equinob]

I am also wondering now about the grip you are using on bb bench....wide/narrow ???

I typically use a mid-grip, equidistant from the middle and ends, maybe slightly to the outside of center. I use a narrow grip for tricep work.

However, I have started to incorporate some wide grip lifts, which have compromised my weight, since my muscles are not used to that position. The reason for this is that I've been reading a number of articles about stimulating "outer" pec development, which is exactly my problem - my chest is fairly narrow, and does not flair out on the outer-bottom sides like most. I have noticed while on gear that where the pec meets the delt that the "upper-outer" pec has begun to widen nicely without changing anything in my lifting habits.

But these kinds of articles are frustrating, because they tend to be written by guys who have never really had poor chest development, and the whole "lower" and "outer" pec debate is tedious. I have yet to read anything or get advice from a guy who has the development I crave and started out where I did, or even suffers a similar problem.

I think I simply may be fighting genetics, as we all are by using gear to overcome our natural plateaus. I'm a tall slim guy, as were all the men and women in my family tree, it's as simple as that. But just like making the choice to use gear, I'll keep at it.

Thanks for the continued advice Dennis!

 

[dennis]

Legs are my weak point so I have an idea how you feel...yes ,unfortunately genetics play a big role in our development.I promise you though,stick with the exercise and diet and the chest will grow!

 

[bigrobbie]

Bigrobbie, spot on advice. I do focus a lot on my negative resistance, but could benefit from doing a whole routine hitting them.Pre-exhaust is worth a try to get to the root of the problem. My tri's might be a possible culprit, but I seriously doubt my shoulders are as they are the second most deficient muscle group I have trouble growing, but I am noticing some gains only four weeks in. If only my chest would co-operate.

HERE'S A COUPLE OF SPECIFIC QUESTIONS RE: GEAR

I'm pinning on Mon & Thur. with chest on Monday. Should I move chest to Tuesday to give the gear an added day to absorb and implement into my workout?

Also, I know that the half-life is something like 5 days, but Thur. to Mon. is 4 days between, so is that another reason to move chest to Tuesday as gear is at it's lowest point during the week?

Or does any of that matter?

I also see a lot guys that use gear ending up with massive upper bodies, and tiny legs. So maybe I should do a few chest only weeks, working just the chest twice during that week and nothing else. Would that kind of spot focus make any difference to the chest growth, or just shortchange my results in other muscle groups?

Training on gear is still somewhat of a mystery to me, assuming the same rules off gear don't apply.

Doesn't matter when you pin vs. when you train chest. DO NOT NEGLECT LOWER BODY! If anything break workout into upper body one day lower the next, then off day, then repeat...saying that really makes me wonder if you should, if you get no results from the pre exhaust and negatives, do a powerliting workout like 5X5....

Please keep us posted after making workout changes....I'm very interested to see what ends up working for ya bro....

 

[Equinob]

Thought I would post a couple of pics to clarify discussion. As I said, I'm happy with back, delt, and trap development. But in relation to my rib cage, the pecs seem to be lagging behind.

Everything looks mostly fine from the front, it's only when I turn to the side that the deficiency becomes evident. This is neutral posture, not leaning back or forward. My abs protrude a bit in this pic, but that does not change the prominence of my rib cage. Based on all the weight lifters I have seen, pecs normally sit even with the lower edge of the ribcage, or preferably protruding just a bit. And of course there's not side separation between the pecs and my torso.

Trust me when I say, I have been battling this naturally for 12 years. Strength has ironically been improving steadily, but there does not seem to be a correlation in size. What you see in the pic is not that far off from how they looked for the last 6 years, just slightly larger. Have gone from a max of 145 to my pre cycle max of 265, and I have since moved up to a max of 285 in 4 weeks.

And as a refresher, I'm 6'2", currently 210, 16%bf

 

[bigrobbie]

You have good definition between upper abs and lower pecs. It looks to me like you really need pectoralis major to size up...you are lean enough that if you can bulk it on a clean diet you'll, IMO, have great seperation and symmetry.

I've just listed some basic info and exercises to get you to focus on your pec major, also...no more decline exercises until you build up your upper chest more, IMO....do alot of incline bench, dumbbell press and pushups along with some of the exercises listed below. AGAIN....I"M ONLY GIVING YOU A LIST OF EXERCISES, I'M NOT SAYING TO USE AS YOUR ONLY ROUTINE.

Don't forget about the negatives and pre exhausting of tris we discussed too.


Pectoralis Major

The chest is a major muscle which consists of the pectoralis major and minor.

The primary function of the chest is for shoulder transverse adduction, flexion, internal rotation, adduction and extension.

The origin of the chest (pectoralis major) attaches onto the anterior of the sternum and the 2nd to 6th of the ribs.

The pectoralis major inserts onto the proximal anterior of the humerus.


Training

The chest muscles should be trained twice per week, they are mostly activated during any pushing motion. Make sure to train your back just as hard as your chest or injuries could occur, and to promote good depth and width.



Pectoralis Major Exercises


Flat bench press: While lying comfortably on a bench, the bar should be lowered to the middle of the chest area, and then back up to full extension without locking your elbows. The lower back should maintain contact with the bench at all times.


Bench press is one of the most talked about measures of strength. While bench press is a 'good' indicator of upper body strength, there are so many other exercises which can demonstrate overall strength (Squats, Leg Press, Deadlift, Hang Cleans). Bench press is a compound exercise.


Machine Bench Press(Vertical Press): Start with your back firmly against the pad. While having the weights around your nipples (in height) push the weight out with your lower back firmly against the pad. Slowly return to start position. I suggest using 3sec. up and 3 sec. down. This machine is in most gyms and replicates incline bench press without working stabalizing muscles so it isolates more.


Medicine Ball Chest Pushups: Begin this the medicine ball pushups by lying face down in a pushup position with your butt parallel to the floor. Now try to use one hand to grasp the medicine ball and then the other. Do push ups, the more elbows are in the more it works tris and the more out the more chest. This move requires a lot of core strength and balance. It is more of an advanced exercise and many still use a balance spotter.


Cable Crossovers: Take hold of stirup or nylon triangle handles, attach to overhead pulleys. Have your arms parallel with the floor, palms down, and a slight bend at the waist. Bring your arms down in an arc fashion until your hands meet. Reverse the movement on the way back up.
I stand in a simi wide stride for balance and usually alternate which foot is in front from set to set.


Incline Flyes: While lying on an incline bench holding the dumbbells at arms length with a slight bend at the elbow, raise the dumbbells overhead in an arc fashion to the top. Reverse the movement. When doing flyes you should pretend like you're hugging a large tree trunk...always helped me.[)]


Machine Flyes (Pec Deck) : I like the Pec Deck as a last exercise burnout or as a fly to reverse fly chest and back superset. Do Pec Deck at a weight that, at workouts end, makes you really push to make 20 reps. Do 2-3 sets of 20 reps to complete any chest workout. (it makes a good warmup also)


Double Medicine Ball pushups: This will really smoke your chest and every stabalizing muscle you have. This alternate chest pushup exercise can be performed by having two medicine balls in each hand in a pushup position. With your hips flat with your body (see picture) lower your upper body as low as you can. This exercise requires a lot of upper body stability muscles. This is an advanced chest exercise.



I just wanted to list some chest exercises to focus on your pec major...you don't need to do decline anything as far as I can tell from looking at the picture you submited.

 

[Equinob]

Robbie, thanks for your thoughtful post. Some of that I was already doing intuitively, but yes, will rotate some of these ideas into my routine. Have started adding some dumbbell and machine presses into my Thursday shoulder routine, so I can Pre-exhaust. My chest is still a little sore after my Monday blast, but hopefully throwing in some limited routines on three days later hitting different angles will not result in overtraining.

Agree, I desperately need some size overall on my pecs. It's really frustrating they aren't responding to the gear they way the rest of my body is. Just to put it into perspective ...

Before I started my cycle, my max chest bench was 215 3x8. Not much has changed. I have more stamina now, but my bench is up only to 235 4x8 after 7 weeks. The difference is I now start on incline bench at 215 4x8 and can then move onto flat bench. Before, my incline was limited to 175 3x8, and I usually could not achieve my max flat bench afterwards. Maybe I am making progress, but it doesn't seem to be reflected in size of my pecs.

In contrast, my legs are not only significantly stronger but also massive stamina. I went from a Pre-gear squat of about 175 3x12, to a current 335 4x12, and that's not my max, I feel like adding more plates, but am holding back for now. The amazing thing is that after doing that, I am able to do 4x12 leg presses, Pre-cycle of 450 (3x12) exhausted, to a current 720 and wanting more when I'm done. Again holding back for now. I'm lifting whole stacks on leg extensions and curls where I could only max half stacks on the machines before. I've had similar gains on my back. So, I feel like I'm making fantastic gains in areas that were not a problem before the gear, at the expense of my pecs on gear.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the advice. Will just keep hitting the pecs as hard as I can. Who knows, the Deca has not fully kicked in yet, so maybe there's hope. Haha

 

[bigrobbie]

Any results yet bro?

 

[Equinob]

Hey Robbie, thanks for asking. I'm not very objective about it right now. I'm not seeing size gains in my chest, but strength is holding steady and relatively growing in terms of endurance of weight vs. reps and increasing weight per lift. But still seemingly not at the same rate as other areas. I'm trying to co-ordinate with a buddy for at least one day of heavy lifting/spotting. Yesterday I had a solid chest workout, felt like I burned them out, and this morning sitting here my pecs feel just normal, no fatigue. Shoulders and tris about the same so know they didn't carry the burden, at least too much. But it's only been a couple of weeks on the twice a week, routine. I think my expectations on gear were greater than the reality. My chest is definitely growing, just not the way I thought it might. I will probably post some more pics in the next week or two. Maybe that will help give me some positive perspective on it.

On a related note, I'm 8 weeks in and my body weight has plateaued, in fact it's started to drop. I was at a high of 214, back down to 207. Body fat is consistent around 15-16% (according to my Tanita scale). My calories have been inconsistent over the last couple of weeks, due to some unexpected travel, but I've maintained at least a maintenance level of around 3,000, if not normal schedule. Perhaps I am finally losing water weight? Assume this is normal?