Metformin for insulin resistance due to high dosage GH pre contest.

[Big.E89]

Thanks for all of the responses so far. Lots of knowledgeable guys on here.

 

[rpbb]

I can see where one could look at metformin as being dirty. For someone that has very bad eating habits, it has the ability to allow them to continue on eatin like shit, with less consequences. Taking metformin before eating a bowl of ice cream and then getting into bed is not unheard of. But for people that are disciplined and have their diet on lock, it becomes a incredible nutrient partioner and can be added to your list of tools. I don’t know if I wouldnt consider it to be as good of a partioner as tren is because I believe they work differently.

always cracks me up how many people knock metformin. it's an amazing drugs used by millions of people with no problems. being researched for anti aging now

 

[Demondosage]

I believe the digestion issues on metformin is your stomach ridding the body of waste before normalizing itself.

A guy who is pretty knowledgeable on this stuff told me that, also says it's great to burn fat, specifically visceral fat within the muscle

 

[fritzer]

Also metformin therapy can help restore normal levels of insulin and decreases the pool of free-bioactive IGF-1 by increasing the levels of circulating IGFBP-1. Many studies have shown this. Also many people have taken labs on metformin and have shown large decreases in igf 1.

Just an interesting aside

 

[Big.E89]

Also metformin therapy can help restore normal levels of insulin and decreases the pool of free-bioactive IGF-1 by increasing the levels of circulating IGFBP-1. Many studies have shown this. Also many people have taken labs on metformin and have shown large decreases in igf 1.

Just an interesting aside

I feel like that would be the one major downside. Def don't want to decrease igf-1

 

[weighted chinup]

Many studies have shown this. Also many people have taken labs on metformin and have shown large decreases in igf 1.

Yup, this is one of the reasons it has a reputation as an anti-aging/life-extension drug (or at least, why it's popular among people using drugs for anti-aging/life-extension purposes).

Coincidentally, pretty much any drug or supplement that is good for life-extension is probably not very good for muscle building purposes. Carrying supraphysiological amounts of muscle and life-extension are generally two goals that can't effectively be hit at the same time, unfortunately.

The longevity benefit of reducing IGF-1 is it's role in the aging process and development of CVD. Again, probably not ideal for muscle building purposes, but longevity and being fucking massive are tricky things to do at the same time. IIRC the only proven way to extend life/live longer in mammals is calorie and bodyweight restriction, and this hobby tends to do the exact opposite of that lol.

 

[88general88]

Also metformin therapy can help restore normal levels of insulin and decreases the pool of free-bioactive IGF-1 by increasing the levels of circulating IGFBP-1. Many studies have shown this. Also many people have taken labs on metformin and have shown large decreases in igf 1.

Just an interesting aside

What is characterized as large, I have heard a decrease in igf1 but never a large decrease. Speculation??? Broscience??? Don’t leave us hangin bro .

 

[fritzer]

I'll have to look at the studies again and read on that. I dont remember the #s. I believed some of the labs had about a 200 igf 1 drop. But that depends how much gh your taking. Like 600 to 400 isnt as bad as 300 to 100 for example. But please dont quote me, dont want to start a science war. Just going off my goldfish memory to give you a response before waiting

 

[lilhawk]

Definitely not brother.
You're telling me you've never pushed the envelope before?

I didn't make this post to get a hard time about my gh usage. I'm looking for a solution before I drop the dosage back down. I'm aware that is going to be the best option of I can't get this figured out..

I know guys at the top level using 20+ ius a day... No that doesn't make it okay but I feel like people aren't aware that this is really going on.

You're exactly right. 12ius really isn't that much compared to what a lot of these guys are doing. 20iu is actually a pretty standard dose of pharma GH for the ones that can afford it. At 120 you are fine, yes its at the upper limit of normal, but if you're going to take a break from GH after your show then you should be fine not taking anything at all. However, to be sure you can use 500-1000mg 2x daily of Metformin and see how your BS reacts to it. You have to be loving the results that 12iu of pharma GH gives you.

 

[Big.E89]

You're exactly right. 12ius really isn't that much compared to what a lot of these guys are doing. 20iu is actually a pretty standard dose of pharma GH for the ones that can afford it. At 120 you are fine, yes its at the upper limit of normal, but if you're going to take a break from GH after your show then you should be fine not taking anything at all. However, to be sure you can use 500-1000mg 2x daily of Metformin and see how your BS reacts to it. You have to be loving the results that 12iu of pharma GH gives you.

These were exactly my thoughts in regards to dosage. Thanks for the input on the metformin i was thinking of dosing the way Demondosage had mentioned earlier in the thread. 500 pre workout and 500 pre bed.

I'm loving it that's for sure. Let's just say I'm getting noticeably leaner every week that goes by and I am still eating a significant amount of food to be in prep.

 

[T&H]

Stuff is dirt cheap overseas too. I got a bunch on the way from reliablerx. Not sure if this is something a lot of sources carry.

 

[Big.E89]

Ok guys,

So here's an update for anyone that is interested. I've been following Demondosage suggestion on dosing the Metformin.

I'm about 5 days in so far, no GI issues whatsoever. Crazy pumps in the gym even being in a caloric deficit... I've been fuller the last few days in prep then I have in weeks and metformin is the only variable that has changed.
..and I'm still getting tighter.

Stomach distention after heavier pre and post carb meals has gone down considerably. Stomach has stayed flatter in general. No bloat.

Heres the icing on the cake... Blood sugar is back in normal range. Waking up fasted in the 90s

 

[VaDImadi]

Ok guys,

So here's an update for anyone that is interested. I've been following Demondosage suggestion on dosing the Metformin.

I'm about 5 days in so far, no GI issues whatsoever. Crazy pumps in the gym even being in a caloric deficit... I've been fuller the last few days in prep then I have in weeks and metformin is the only variable that has changed.
..and I'm still getting tighter.

Stomach distention after heavier pre and post carb meals has gone down considerably. Stomach has stayed flatter in general. No bloat.

Heres the icing on the cake... Blood sugar is back in normal range. Waking up fasted in the 90s

Thats crazy impressive, results-wise, and in such a short period of time

I think i will add in metformin on my next GH run

 

[Wunderpus]

The only thing that I can think of that would be helpful in this situation would be basal insulin (Lantus). This may or may not interfere with fat burn, you really need to talk to someone who has a lot of experience with basal insulin during contest prep or experience using it to mitigate beta cell damage as a result of heavy GH use.

If berberine isn't making a big difference I wouldn't have high hopes for metformin since they are similar in terms of efficacy but it would be the next step if berberine or other GDA's aren't helping.

Basal insulin can be useful for minimizing damage to beta cells in your pancreas to reduce the chance of developing t2d from being insulin resistant for too long (split dosing GH for too long, being too heavy, eating absurd amounts of carbs for too long etc). Contest prep is a pretty unique set of circumstances and even though I have experience with basal insulin, I have no clue how useful or detrimental it may/may not be for you.

I don't know how detrimental dropping or significantly reducing the GH would be to your condition, but I wouldn't dismiss the idea if you can't get it under control by other means.

You took the words - so to speak - out of my mouth. Berberine is largely an acceptable replacement for metformin. Oftentimes, actually type 2 prefer it!

Basal insulin COULD help him. But the reality of the situation is, unfortunately, he would be wise to take hGH out of the picture for a while.

Another option would be to do cardio post lifting as studies have shown that even a mild walk post-meal and post-workout can stimulate insulin sensitivity.

Other than berberine/metformin + carb cycling + post-meal "cardio" there is really no other great plan of attack I can think of besides discontinuing hGH.

If only people could just STOP taking these drugs for periods of time, their long term health and goals will be more accomplished.

 

[Wunderpus]

Thats crazy impressive, results-wise, and in such a short period of time

I think I will add in metformin on my next GH run

Be careful with using a fairly harsh drug "just because". I'd look into milder, and arguably equally effective, options such as berberine, carb cycling etc. first.

I believe it was Dr. Serrano who discussed metformin and it's mitochondrial toxicity. This could be VERY problematic in the long term and should eclipse moderately "better" results in the short term.

 

[Big.E89]

You took the words - so to speak - out of my mouth. Berberine is largely an acceptable replacement for metformin. Oftentimes, actually type 2 prefer it!

Basal insulin COULD help him. But the reality of the situation is, unfortunately, he would be wise to take hGH out of the picture for a while.

Another option would be to do cardio post lifting as studies have shown that even a mild walk post-meal and post-workout can stimulate insulin sensitivity.

Other than berberine/metformin + carb cycling + post-meal "cardio" there is really no other great plan of attack I can think of besides discontinuing hGH.

If only people could just STOP taking these drugs for periods of time, their long term health and goals will be more accomplished.

I haven't seen any anecdotal evidence to support that berberine is a viable replacement for a prescription diabetic drug. For me personal it was only affecting my bg levels my maybe 3-4 points taking 500mg 3x a day. Whereas the metformin like I stated above has for the most part fully fixed the issue in under a week. With no noted side effects whatsoever.

I have seen some people have great success with berberine. That just wasn't the case for me.

As for basal insulin, I feel like that would be counterproductive to fat loss and getting leaner as I am 10 weeks out in contest prep. I think that would be a great option for me in off season but even then I significantly reduce the GH dose and bg isn't an issue or hasn't been during off season in the past.

As for cardio I'm doing 45 minutes steady state post workout every day.

 

[fodsod]

Below is some reading material for you on Berberine.

In your situation, I'd error on the side of the actual prescribed drug also to ensure the most effective corrective action possible but perhaps down the road, Berberine may prove to be a useful tool to help keep you from getting to the point your are/were.

Metformin and berberine, two versatile drugs in treatment of common metabolic diseases

Research Supports Using Berberine to Treat Insulin Resistance - Foundational Medicine Review

Efficacy of Berberine in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes

 

[Mayne]

Any idea what your HbA1c is at right now

 

[Big.E89]

Any idea what your HbA1c is at right now

It was normal range the last time I went and gave blood but it's been about 8 weeks so no, not as of now

 

[T&H]

Good stuff on the berberine. I can't remember what the site was but I too read is it being considered a replacement for diabetics. I bought some on Amazon but honestly metformin is cheaper.