Metformin: Risk/Reward Profile (Tradeoff Considerations; Balancing of Factors; Cost-Benefit Analysis) [Author: Type-IIx]

[Type-IIx]

well that study is just a great example of all this mess...
they did NOT observe a decrease in BG with the folks taking metformin... what the actual fuck... thats what it's meant to do and it does well hence being prescribed to prediabetics and they stay on met for years and years before going to full exo insulin...

It makes sense when you look at the Supplemental Data:



The Metformin group started eating more so their fasting glucose didn't improve vs. Placebo who ate slightly less.

and its all a bit contradictory as they noted them self's as other studies showed that metformin prevented muscle loss in sedentary elderly individuals... so how does this work? @Type-IIx

This trial looked primarily at how Met affected adaptations to progressive resistance training (all groups, placebo & Met were given a PRT intervention, and the groups compared) rather than what occurs at rest for those that remain sedentary.

 

[29trt]

makes sense when you look at the Supplemental Data:

The Metformin group started eating more so their fasting glucose didn't improve vs. Placebo who ate slightly less.

so they ate more calories and lost more weight...makes sense in the context of how metformin works
but did I interpret wrong the fact that the diet was self reported? cause if it was no way do I believe they managed to determine a 5% difference in calorie intake even if it was an average...

 

[Type-IIx]

so they ate more calories and lost more weight...makes sense in the context of how metformin works
but did I interpret wrong the fact that the diet was self reported? cause if it was no way do I believe they managed to determine a 5% difference in calorie intake even if it was an average...

Bro, the only way that it's possible to control dietary intake is by studying patients committed to hospital units that do not allow visitors and basically involves parenterally (tube) feeding people on bedrest.

We're all very impressed by your ability to criticize potential flaws in study design, except, there is no such thing as perfect.

Anyway, since Met failed to significantly reduce fasting glucose whereas progressive resistance training succeeded at this, and since you are not a diabetic fat ass who refuses to train, just train and blast and eat protein, and when it comes to my writing here, just take it or leave it: the damn risk/reward profile is what it is; and it has more utility than your boring us with your armchair critique!

 

[29trt]

Bro, the only way that it's possible to control dietary intake is by studying patients committed to hospital units that do not allow visitors and basically involves parenterally (tube) feeding people on bedrest.

We're all very impressed by your ability to criticize potential flaws in study design, except, there is no such thing as perfect.

Anyway, since Met failed to significantly reduce fasting glucose whereas progressive resistance training succeeded at this, and since you are not a diabetic fat ass who refuses to train, just train and blast and eat protein, and when it comes to my writing here, just take it or leave it: the damn risk/reward profile is what it is; and it has more utility than your boring us with your armchair critique!

Yeah Bro I know that there is no way to control for dietary intake that was my point.... who knows what the fuck they ate... maybe they ate candy and donuts for all I know its a small sample size as well

You know as well as I do that there are a myriad of studies showing metformin drops BG significantly, and myself and others have experienced this first hand, it droped my BG during a fuking BULK...

This study is weak AF and we need way more data to prove that metformin has a detrimental effect on muscle accruel.

I appreciate you insight and knowledge on this matter and please do not take it the wrong way but allot of people would benefit from taking metformin when on Hgh or high calorie intake, your risk assessment seems to portray metformin as a hypertrophy destroying monster

 

[Musmadar]

Excelent article.
I'm glad this answer a lot of questions I've had on this matter.

When I experienced some of the sides related to decrease of libido and the raise of the SHBG...I asked my doctor, a diabetes specialist, if it has something to do with Metformin, and the doctor had no ideea on that matter...but I was certain for me at that time.

Even with all these sides I still believe that is a great compound to be added in a bodybuilder arsenal especially when high calory (carb) intake, Hgh, insulin,etc is involved.

 

[xrayphoton13]

I wonder if a better choice for insulin sensitivity would be a low dose of semaglutide. A dose that wouldn't impact your eating habits if you are bulking but could still keep blood sugar low. I was up to 2mg when I was cutting to keep appetite in check. So maybe 0.5-1mg would be an option if I was having blood sugar issues in a bulk

 

[Musmadar]

I wonder if a better choice for insulin sensitivity would be a low dose of semaglutide. A dose that wouldn't impact your eating habits if you are bulking but could still keep blood sugar low. I was up to 2mg when I was cutting to keep appetite in check. So maybe 0.5-1mg would be an option if I was having blood sugar issues in a bulk

Of course it is Sema and Tirz...but I would keep Metformin near...even with some breaks from time to time.

 

[AlexDavis43]

At risk of sounding like a broken record, check out dihydroberberine and empagliflozin.

 

[Type-IIx]

At risk of sounding like a broken record, check out dihydroberberine and empagliflozin.

I like dihydro-BBR too.

 

[UncleBuns]

In regards to metformin reducing testosterone levels in normal healthy men. I see there is a research paper showing no change in testosterone level for diabetic men. Do you have any thoughts on why Testosterone decreased in the healthy men? Could that affect be not because of metformin's direct effect. But because of side effects, the healthy men experienced from metformin like dietary change, fatigue, sleep disruption or something like that? The dose they gave the normal healthy men is quite high for a starting dose.

 

[Type-IIx]

In regards to metformin reducing testosterone levels in normal healthy men. I see there is a research paper showing no change in testosterone level for diabetic men. Do you have any thoughts on why Testosterone decreased in the healthy men? Could that affect be not because of metformin's direct effect. But because of side effects, the healthy men experienced from metformin like dietary change, fatigue, sleep disruption or something like that? The dose they gave the normal healthy men is quite high for a starting dose.

well glucotoxicity is systemic, it doesn’t just harm the pancreatic islet cells. So on a background of disease, treating that disease will tend to benefit the Leydig cells I suppose.

 

[ZyzzReincarnate]

Vigorous Steve and ChatGPT said that metformin reduces IGF-1 by 20-30%.

But I remember that Vigorous Steve isn't THAT smart and ChatGPT is just a chatbot, and not the best research aid.

Professor is very smart. So I listen to him.