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[eminem93]

i apologize for members getting upset @ me. i will look at this tomorrow or sunday and feel embarassed. hopefully you'll understand what it's like to be at a low. if not, i will learn eventually. thank you for being honest either way, because i try to learn tfrom everyone i meet in life.

 

[mikestrong]

No it's not a study, it's a real article with many references published by a university.. What you posted was something some half brain made up, certainly not a study..

I thought you were different Mike but how you've acted tonight shows you're just here to line your pockets like any other source with no interest in the truth..

Goodnight..

Yeah like I said vote me out. I am so for my pockets, I pay to have the stuff tested.
Offer refunds when there are problems.
I will leave here if I am voted out, you think I would call for a vote, if I was for money.
Again you are here talking about me, even tough you have never dealt with me.
Nor have you ever came to me when there was an issue to get info or see what you could do to fix things.
JB you have shown to me that you take a stand against me without finding out details. Which other WKM have done, I have shared a lot with many, again I think you would benefit from helping others out for real if you actually got your hands dirty & got in to help out issues.
Cause if you are NOT involved on the inside, how are you really helping the situations. It's like throwing fuel to the fire.
I would have happily shared the issues with you, as I figured you to be a respected member on here.
mikestrong

 

[tileguy123]

100 percent.. the Test cost me 72.99 .. MS took $35 off the retail of some DBOL..

(mind you im rural, so i drive 70miles each way for labs) my cost.)

.....................................................................................................

But again MS.. i think you are missing my point about the services some members provide, that you must look over there under tones written in txt, you cant sense an attitude and let it bother you. .
These members exhaust a huge amount of time scanning scammers in the UGL, monitering every section of MESO, waiting for bullshit to pop up, and it does daily. That initself make their verbal bite stronger... and their patience less. IF indeed there is no issue with the meds, then your reaction should reflect that, a more calm collected reaction, where we all find the answers together.
As for the daughter comment, it was petty and stupid.. not right by any means.. and you are right to be pissed about something like that, but again you , must come from a buisness standpoint, and not let comments of anysort get under your skin..
I hope you can see the function these few hardworking members serve, and not let it feel as if they dont want you here.. that is not true at all

 

[eminem93]

Yeah like I said vote me out. I am so for my pockets, I pay to have the stuff tested.
Offer refunds when there are problems.
I will leave here if I am voted out, you think I would call for a vote, if I was for money.
Again you are here talking about me, even tough you have never dealt with me.
Nor have you ever came to me when there was an issue to get info or see what you could do to fix things.
JB you have shown to me that you take a stand against me without finding out details. Which other WKM have done, I have shared a lot with many, again I think you would benefit from helping others out for real if you actually got your hands dirty & got in to help out issues.
Cause if you are NOT involved on the inside, how are you really helping the situations. It's like throwing fuel to the fire.
I would have happily shared the issues with you, as I figured you to be a respected member on here.
mikestrong

dont vote out

 

[tileguy123]

on another note, why are my erections as good as ever with my e2 @150 n/g.. you mofos wish you had the tilemans genetics..

edit: how long till i have my own tits and i dont have to leave the house to play? ?

 

[mikestrong]

100 percent.. the Test cost me 72.99 .. MS took $35 off the retail of some DBOL..

(mind you im rural, so i drive 70miles each way for labs) my cost.)

.....................................................................................................

But again MS.. i think you are missing my point about the services some members provide, that you must look over there under tones written in txt, you cant sense an attitude and let it bother you. .
These members exhaust a huge amount of time scanning scammers in the UGL, monitering every section of MESO, waiting for bullshit to pop up, and it does daily. That initself make their verbal bite stronger... and their patience less. IF indeed there is no issue with the meds, then your reaction should reflect that, a more calm collected reaction, where we all find the answers together.
As for the daughter comment, it was petty and stupid.. not right by any means.. and you are right to be pissed about something like that, but again you , must come from a buisness standpoint, and not let comments of anysort get under your skin..
I hope you can see the function these few hardworking members serve, and not let it feel as if they dont want you here.. that is not true at all

WISE VIP TILEGUY,
Thanks for this post. Very wise. I have not been back here on Meso that long. I have heard about the scamms & I can see the way VIPs are worried & non trusting.
OK I guess I have to get used to these types of members giving their feedback without asking my side.
But it is hard, cause I may not be on for some time, like tonight I missed church cause I see 2-3 pages of posts with this issues which I thought was blown out of proportion. I have since worked it out.
But some on here calling me wrong, evil & creppy, vengeful. I really just wanted to get this unhappy one on his way elsewhere, not taking anything from him.
But he had a reason for needing me to help out, which I did NOT know about until later.
Tile, the thing is hard not to defend oneself if you are being called things you are not.

Also like to add that I feel I have been more than calm in stating my side in the situations of late & always dealing with things behind the scenes. Only to then find that the other party is posting up, with incomplete info & already having some supporting their version & sort of bashing me.
Look I would not give one ounce of care, if I truly did not care about being a GOOD MEMBER of this community.
Anyway thanks for explaining.
mikestrong

 

[tmac34]

on another note, why are my erections as good as ever with my e2 @150 n/g.. you mofos wish you had the tilemans genetics..

edit: how long till i have my own tits and i dont have to leave the house to play? ?

So are you experiencing sides? Or still no? Just asking so I know what to look out for while running npp. Thanks.

 

[Dr JIM]

Eminem I stand by my gear being dosed correctly. I think we have something pending, I will cancel it if it is not to late & then refund you. I don't want unhappy VIP
For anyone to claim my product is underdosed due to blood work is ignorant. Test my product instead, to see it is the real deal. I remember reading about Androgen Receptors being non receptive, saturated & also blocked.
Tileguy had high Estadiol:
Here is an article:
efer people to this information.

From the beginning...

Estradiol is an estrogen. It is known on blood tests as E2. Many people (even doctors) simply call it estrogen.

Why it Matters

There are basically two reasons we care about estradiol.

The first is that E2 is a powerful testosterone receptor antagonist. What this means is that estradiol binds to androgen receptors and renders them useless. When testosterone binds to an androgen receptor, it activates the receptor and you get the effect you're looking for. When estradiol binds to that receptor, it blocks testosterone from binding, yet it does not active the receptor, so nothing happens.

This means that if your estradiol is high, no matter how much testosterone you have, it isn't helping you as it should because too many of your androgen receptors are blocked by estradiol and your free testosterone has no where to go. Testosterone can't do you any good if it doesn't have receptors available to activate.

It can even get worse... because high levels of estradiol can cause the downregulation of androgen receptors. This means that your body may respond to higher levels of estradiol by creating fewer androgen receptors as cells are replaced in normal regeneration. In other words, not only does estradiol block the available androgen receptors, it causes your body to produce fewer of them in the future!
Show me any evidence for this statement bc the effect IS MINIMAL IN NORMAL PEOPLE

This is one reason why raising testosterone levels may not have any immediate effect.


It may be that your receptors have downregulated and so you'll need to lower estradiol and increase testosterone in order to get your body to upregulate again and this takes time.

The second reason we care about estradiol is that you also have estrogen receptors and estradiol binds to them and causes them to activate. This is fine if you want to grow man boobs, store fat on your belly, and have an enlarged prostate, NOT TRUE but not so good if you want to look and feel like a man.

Where It Comes From

Brushing aside the highly controversial subject of environmental estrogens, the primary pathway for estradiol production is via the conversion of testosterone by aromatase. This means that the aromatase enzyme binds to testosterone and chemically converts it to estradiol. Think about that for a minute. Realize that this conversion is a double whammy. In one process you're losing T and gaining E. Obviously this is not good.

This is where aromatase inhibitors (AI) like anastrozole (brand name Arimidex - aka "adex" etc.) come into the picture. They bind to the aromatase enzyme and prevent it from converting your testosterone to estradiol. They do not work directly on estradiol nor on estrogen receptors. It is SERM's like Clomid and Nolvadex that bind to estrogen receptors. SERM's and AI's are different animals, so don't get them confused.

So an AI gives you the double whammy in reverse. It prevents the loss of testosterone to conversion and consequently lowers your estradiol which helps keep your androgen receptors available for testosterone.

E Follows T

Here's where doctors fuck up. (Well another oversimplified statement)

They forget that E follows T. As your T levels go up, so will your E levels. If you're not doing something to control your E (like taking an AI) then you aren't really going to get anywhere with higher T levels because your higher E levels are just going to cancel out any beneficial effect from the T. NOT TRUE unless your referring to a TT;E-2 ratio reversal and that does NOT HAPPEN bc of TT use period

Like I said, your T can't do you any good if all your androgen receptors are bound with estradiol. What are you referring to bc this just does not occur in normal folk not even close!

For those of us with "age related" low T, this is a serious issue because our bodies are naturally trying to keep T low and E high by pumping out aromatase.

If you're younger and have low T for some other reason, aromatase may not be as much of an issue, but it still matters.

Fat

Fat produces estrogen and aromatase; even in men. If you're carrying extra fat, one of the best things you can do to help your hormone balance is to lose the fat.

In Range does not equal Normal

One of the problems you're likely to face is the problem of doctors believing that any blood test value that is "in range" is "normal" and therefor fine. I wish it was that simple.

Let's look at testosterone values. The range for Quest is 241-847 ng/dL. But those values are derived simply by looking at the values of everyone who has a blood test for testosterone. What's normal for a younger man is to be in the higher end of the range. What's normal for an older man is to be in the lower end of the range. Well low T might be "normal" but that doesn't mean it's good! I may be an older guy, but why should I be happy with low T simply because it's normal? ALL men of all ages should be in the higher end of the range if they want to feel good and perform athletically and sexually as men.

The same holds true for estradiol. The range is 13-54 pg/mL but "normal" young men are at the low end of the range and that's where you want to be as well.

Trust me, if your T is 250 and your E is 50, you may be "in range" for both values, but you aren't going to feel good or have anywhere near the athletic and sexual performance that would have if your T was 800 and your E was 15.

Natural Variation

All populations exhibit variation. The average height for men might be 5' 10" but we all know guys who are much taller and much shorter. This same variation applies to T levels, E levels, and reactions to various therapies. In other words, while the principals I've outlined hold true in general, how they specifically apply to you will vary. Be smart and deal with it.

Ok, that's enough from me for now. This is just a basic primer; there's a lot more to this subject so use this as a springboard to do more research on your own.

Anyway I am no expert. But I don't recall anyone on here talking about Androgen Receptors.

Eminem PM so we can arrange a refund/return of your recent order.
Respectfully
MS

Sorry, no offense, but you have grossly oversimplified the involved physiology here.

1) The differences in ligand affinity between estrogens and androgens is significant such that when E-2 "binds" to an androgen receptor the attachment is VERY WEAK and vice versa for an androgen "binding" to an estrogen receptor.
2) High levels of TT easily "kick off" E-2 from an androgen receptor
3) The level of E-2 is typically one tenth to one twentieth that of TT
4) The primary effect an elevated E-2 has on ones physiology is the consequence of E-2 binding to the ESTROGEN RECEPTOR and NOT the result of it's binding to the ANDROGEN RECEPTOR (So physiologically there is no "double wammy" effect
5) When TT is supplemented it's the level of one "aromatase activity" which determine whether an AI bc USUALLY the TT:E-2 ratio remains unchanged from pre supplemental levels. That's to say when TT is supplemented, yes E-2 does indeed increase, yet so does TT and that change follows the same pretreatment ratios in MOST individuals.

Oh and FYI, androgens tend to INCREASE prostatic size while estrogens SHRINK THE IT!

UNDERDOSED GEAR oh I've no idea BUT peak TT levels generally follow a 10 times rule (based on human TRT studies). Multiply the FIRST DOSE, in mg, by 10 and the result should approximate the serum TT level, in ng/dl. The blood draw should be obtained at roughly 24 hours post injection.

 

[tileguy123]

So are you experiencing sides? Or still no? Just asking so I know what to look out for while running npp. Thanks.

Puffy nips that's it

 

[dnml]

Wow. I'm amazed that this shit still amazes me...

Good on @johnnyBALLZ and @flenser for having the stones to call it like it is.

Mike, I like you and believe you truly want to provide a great service and product, but with all due, you handled yourself extremely poorly here and damaged yourself much more than those bloods and eminems comments did.

Here's the bottom line imho: tile posted bloods. One can say they are incomplete, other factors, etc. But they are LAB RESULTS, not "it feels like it is working. .."

Mike has posted no tests. Lots of conjecture, some of which I actually agree with but don't put as much weight in it as he does... and a 'blog post' on receptors.

That's not going to cut it. You're bringing a knife to a gun fight Mike, post up some tests.

One last question: is this "associate" eminem kept referring to a member here???

 

[tmac34]

Sorry, no offense, but you have grossly oversimplified the involved physiology here.

1) The differences in ligand affinity between estrogens and androgens is significant such that when E-2 "binds" to an androgen receptor the attachment is VERY WEAK and vice versa for an androgen "binding" to an estrogen receptor.
2) High levels of TT easily "kick off" E-2 from an androgen receptor
3) The level of E-2 is typically one tenth to one twentieth that of TT
4) The primary effect an elevated E-2 has on ones physiology is the consequence of E-2 binding to the ESTROGEN RECEPTOR and NOT the result of it's binding to the ANDROGEN RECEPTOR (So physiologically there is no "double wammy" effect
5) When TT is supplemented it's the level of one "aromatase activity" which determine whether an AI bc USUALLY the TT:E-2 ratio remains unchanged from pre supplemental levels. That's to say when TT is supplemented, yes E-2 does indeed increase, yet so does TT and that change follows the same pretreatment ratios in MOST individuals.

Oh and FYI, androgens tend to INCREASE prostatic size while estrogens SHRINK THE IT!

UNDERDOSED GEAR oh I've no idea BUT peak TT levels generally follow a 10 times rule (based on human TRT studies). Multiply the FIRST DOSE, in mg, by 10 and the result should approximate the serum TT level, in ng/dl. The blood draw should be obtained at roughly 24 hours post injection.

What if the first dose is 250mg @500mg ew? Does the multiply by 10 rule still apply? There has been conjecture that if the weekly dose is split up it will result in a lower number than the full dose at once a week.

 

[Big Mike]

What if the first dose is 250mg @500mg ew? Does the multiply by 10 rule still apply? There has been conjecture that if the weekly dose is split up it will result in a lower number than the full dose at once a week.

@Dr JIM also another question on the X10 rule is it the milligrams on the dosage we multiply or the actual milligrams of the ester we multiply?


Thanks in advance,

Big Mike

 

[mikestrong]

Wow. I'm amazed that this shit still amazes me...

Good on @johnnyBALLZ and @flenser for having the stones to call it like it is.

Mike, I like you and believe you truly want to provide a great service and product, but with all due, you handled yourself extremely poorly here and damaged yourself much more than those bloods and eminems comments did.

Here's the bottom line imho: tile posted bloods. One can say they are incomplete, other factors, etc. But they are LAB RESULTS, not "it feels like it is working. .."

Mike has posted no tests. Lots of conjecture, some of which I actually agree with but don't put as much weight in it as he does... and a 'blog post' on receptors.

That's not going to cut it. You're bringing a knife to a gun fight Mike, post up some tests.

One last question: is this "associate" eminem kept referring to a member here???

Look DNML,
This is not a fight, I paid part of the test.
Estrogen was high, I feel it could affect the RECEPTORS, I did show an article on that. I said I am no expert.

You are trying to make it sound as if I am trying to mislead or give bad info. I posted what I found, plain and simple.

I don't feel damaged at all. I am here answering & not going anywhere. Doesn't seem that the test were don't 100% correctly from what I am reading from you all.

Also I think you are painting an incomplete picture, the labmax tests where done.

Maybe you could tell me who has better tested gear on here?

So this could damage me furthermore, people can buy it there.

mikestrong

 

[Dr JIM]

Chill out fella your gear should sell it's self it's that simple.

I am only trying to emphasize a few physiological points that do not occur as you have described.

No big deal
Jim

 

[viking23]

I really don't think MS is here for just the money.He obviously needs to profit for it to be worth the risk. However he was willing to take a hit just to make sure I was satisfied with his service . He came through on his word and didnt need to offer anything more but after I explained my situation he had no problem trying to help even if it caused a small hit to his pocket . I didn't take him up on it even though he insisted but the action speak for itself. Just my experience

 

[Dr JIM]

What if the first dose is 250mg @500mg ew? Does the multiply by 10 rule still apply? There has been conjecture that if the weekly dose is split up it will result in a lower number than the full dose at once a week.

Good question!

Since T-c is the most commonly used testosterone ester cited in the TRT literature the ester probably makes little difference.

Also remember the rule is 10 X the dose IN MG + or - 20%!

The most common schedule for T-c TRT is Q Week, Now obviously the level WILL increase if you wait for steady state levels to develop.

SO THE FIRST INJECTION IS LIKELY THE MOST RELIABLE, IMO

 

[mikestrong]

Chill out fella your gear should sell it's self it's that simple.

I am only trying to emphasize a few physiological points that do not occur as you have described.

No big deal
Jim

Hey Dr. Jim
Yes I respect your knowledge. I don't have no where near that. I just tried to point out an issue about Receptors.
I guess I should have stayed out of it, as it is seen as me protecting my business.
But with respect, can we talk about Receptors?
I again am no expert in this & just wish to find out more:

I have was trying to read these posts to see more about the ANDROGEN RECEPTOR.
I don't want to be the one to state my opionion, but it seems there are different view.

Again don't hold me to opinion, make your own & state it here.

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/can-your-androgen-receptors-be-saturated.134313630/

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-receptor-regulation/

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/androgen-action-androgen-receptor/

http://www.dcnutrition.com/miscellaneous/detail.cfm?RecordNumber=475

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_receptor

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/george-whipple-lab/documents/miya-papers/3.pdf

http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79817


mikestrong

 

[Gettinbigger76]

iv gone thru 2 shoulder injuries. rotatur cuff. i was benching over 300 pounds and went from that to benching fucking nothing barely the bar. do u know how depressing that is? do u know how much it feels liek to be a piece of fucking shit cuz u cant be the person you want to ve in life ?

I know you're going through some shit, but how much you can lift has absolutely nothing to do with the type of person you are..

 

[fokai500]

Dammit boy missed a lot last night.

 

[heady muscle]

Dammit boy missed a lot last night.

Yeah no doubt, me too. Hopefully sleep and a new day starts everyone afresh and a cleansed acumen.