MESO-Rx Exclusive Muscle dysmorphia from medical vs bodybuilder perspective - do you have it?

[Skarpyona]

The stupid researchers arent in bbers mind, and neither in their own fucked up mind.

bigorexia doesnt mean a fuck.

there is an italian bodybuilder, the biggest one, called Andrea Presti, that almost qualified for Mr Olympia open last year, he needed just 1 point, he s 127kg lean, and he thinks he s not big, because he dreams Ronnie Coleman’s freaky body. He met Big Ramy in real life and he said that s fuckin huge and that you should see him in person to understand. So, its all relative to something. So, that Andrea Presti that thinks hes small and isnt happy, he s right, because Ronnie Coleman and Ramy smoke him badly.

some people think im huge and i laugh, i always say “.... i look like shit, and i m fuckin skinny, you don’t know what huge means” Because all of these stupid medicians are fuckin skinny phaggot and the people with a disease is just them, that doesn’t understand a fuck, they re skinny, have small dick, jizz after 30’seconds their wife touch their small tiny penis, so they should burn in hell, all of them and their fuckin Moronrexia


Andrea Presti:

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Man I see guys like this and I can't help but wonder how they attain such size and how much gear they run. Are they genetic freaks who are hyper responders? Do they bang grams at a time?

Just another breed of humans

 

[Jet Labs]

Columbo died, Arnold and ferrigno are still alive. But Lou did become a mass monster in the mid 90s, so genetics?

Columbu lived to be 78 years old so that's pretty damn good for a bodybuilder and yes I believe genetics is a big part of living that long, but also believe lower drug use and or the drugs used.

I'm pretty sure the old timers still alive today used moderate amounts of the basics like test/primo/deca/var/winny/masteron/clomid/nolva and guys who died early most likely used higher doses and stuff like tren/AIs/high iu hgh/slin/dnp/clen and so on.

Just speculation on my part, but seems logical to me. Also I believe guys who consistently eat healthy diets year round will outlive those guys who binge eat pizza and ice cream when bulking then jump on all sorts of cutting drugs when dieting.

 

[Jet Labs]

Man I see guys like this and I can't help but wonder how they attain such size and how much gear they run. Are they genetic freaks who are hyper responders? Do they bang grams at a time?

Just another breed of humans

Symmetry is genetics for the most part, but getting to be big and ripped like that has so much to do with drugs absolutely. Proper diet and hard work combined with an array of drugs is what turns normal size men into freaks, but then you have guys who are naturally big like strongmen, but so many of them juice to the max as well.

 

[Regular Joe]

Columbu lived to be 78 years old so that's pretty damn good for a bodybuilder and yes I believe genetics is a big part of living that long, but also believe lower drug use and or the drugs used.

I'm pretty sure the old timers still alive today used moderate amounts of the basics like test/primo/deca/var/winny/masteron/clomid/nolva and guys who died early most likely used higher doses and stuff like tren/AIs/high iu hgh/slin/dnp/clen and so on.

Just speculation on my part, but seems logical to me. Also I believe guys who consistently eat healthy diets year round will outlive those guys who binge eat pizza and ice cream when bulking then jump on all sorts of cutting drugs when dieting.

I really just wanted to talk about Lou I think. I remember as a little kid finding out that the hulk was a real person and not a costume, my mind was blown, I couldn't wait to look like that. Then 20 years later he made a comeback and was as big as anyone on that stage and now at 70 he's still a monster. O well just had to crush on my hero for a minute

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

There are lots of functioning alcoholics and I've met a couple of functioning crackheads.

What is the definition of bigorexia? Are you saying they always see themselves as small or that they are never happy with how big they get?

My definition of bigorexia is when the feeling too small and always wanting more (which most bodybuilders seem to have) gets to the stage where it cripples you in some way, and your life is starting to become destroyed by it

 

[Millard]

I really thought this would focus on people sacrificing their health for looks. I get why people would consider that a problem but it seems like it was all about guys wanting to get bigger. You keep moving the goal post it said, well no shit. I keep trying to get more money too, if I'm getting a bj I'll see if I can get deep throat. It doesn't seem like guys are nearly as into size as they use to be either, being shredded seems to be as important to most guys now.

Whether it's physically healthy/risky or not is surprisingly not as important as you might think when diagnosing psychological disorders. The behavior/condition must also result in clinically significant distress, impairment, suffering, etc. This is key.

 

[Millard]

I love this:

Nice link to what I am going to say in part 2, thanks this is one of the ways bodybuilders say to manage MD. remember that there is more to you than your physique

Part 2 is coming soon!

 

[Millard]

Yep, there is a tendency to pathologise bodybuilding (and other aspects of everyday life), but we can't let us stop trying to prevent the suffering. I know we are on the same page with this Millard

Exactly. And I will add not just prevent suffering but also facilitate more enjoyment from bodybuilding. There are a lot people who would not consider themselves "suffering" but could use some help navigating risks in the psychological environment encountered in bodybuilding.

 

[Millard]

What is the definition of bigorexia? Are you saying they always see themselves as small or that they are never happy with how big they get?

"Bigorexia" is a pop culture term that doesn't have any strict meaning. It could mean either or both or something else too. By contrast, "muscle dysmorphia" is the scientific term that has strict definitions.

For example, to many bodybuilders, "bigorexia" may be used as a badge of honor to describe their unwillingness to accept their current state due to the unrelenting pursuit of short- and long-term physique goals.

To other bodybuilders, "bigorexia" may describe the clinical diagnosis of muscle dysmorphia.

 

[Millard]

My definition of bigorexia is when the feeling too small and always wanting more (which most bodybuilders seem to have) gets to the stage where it cripples you in some way, and your life is starting to become destroyed by it

That sounds almost interchangeable with the medical term "muscle dysmorphia".

I think one of the most interesting parts of your article is the concept of a continuum of healthy/unhealthy symptomology.

How do we describe people who fall elsewhere on the continuum outside of the clinical diagnosis?

I guess some could be described as subclinical. But how do we define "crippling" and "suffering"? How do we define "normal" and "healthy"?

 

[Millard]

Millard definitely doesn't suffer from bigorexia, he is a road cyclist half the year, the muscle goblin robs him half the year and then he has to pick up all the pieces again and again, lol

Yeah, I don't even know what to say about this. I do what I'm passionate about. And I do what it takes to be good at both. The trick is what do you do when the better you are at one the worse you are at the other? So how do you avoid becoming mediocre at both? It is kinda fucked up.

Cyclists and bodybuilders are both looking at me sideways.

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Exactly. And I will add not just prevent suffering but also facilitate more enjoyment from bodybuilding. There are a lot people who would not consider themselves "suffering" but could use some help navigating risks in the psychological environment encountered in bodybuilding.

This is a great point Millard - it's not just preventing or managing suffering, it is encouraging joy. I should incorporate this more into the way I am thinking about these issues

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

That sounds almost interchangeable with the medical term "muscle dysmorphia".

I think one of the most interesting parts of your article is the concept of a continuum of healthy/unhealthy symptomology.

How do we describe people who fall elsewhere on the continuum outside of the clinical diagnosis?

I guess some could be described as subclinical. But how do we define "crippling" and "suffering"? How do we define "normal" and "healthy"?

Yes I think you are right. There are subclinical eating disorders so maybe we need a category for subclinical muscle dysmorphia?

 

[Demondosage]

Yeah, I don't even know what to say about this. I do what I'm passionate about. And I do what it takes to be good at both. The trick is what do you do when the better you are at one the worse you are at the other? So how do you avoid becoming mediocre at both? It is kinda fucked up.

Cyclists and bodybuilders are both looking at me sideways.

I was joking man, I understand where you're coming from 100% which is why I cracked on it. Without growing in other areas life gets mundane, I was 100% joking with ya

 

[Millard]

But getting back to this topic, basically took self development away from the gym to not obsess over it as bad. Without any other accomplishments in life chances are you just won't break away from it.

I love this:

Nice link to what I am going to say in part 2, thanks this is one of the ways bodybuilders say to manage MD. remember that there is more to you than your physique

Muscle dysmorphia Part 2 was published on MESO-Rx today!

@MairUnderwood(Researcher) discusses several of the ways bodybuilders manage symptoms of bigorexia. Check out the article:

How to Stop the Suffering Caused by Muscle Dysmorphia / Bigorexia: Treatment Options and Bodybuilder Attempts to Manage Symptoms

(Muscle dysmorphia part 2) Muscle dysmorphia, or bigorexia, causes a great deal of suffering. It consumes lives, it ruins lives, it can even end lives. In

thinksteroids.com

 

[DavidGoodmen]

“Muscle dysmorphia…do you have it?” Yes. The whole story is too long to post, so this is terse. I will e-mail it if you are interested.
I trained for strength. Told about “Body Building Reverse Anorexia,” I said, “… I do not have that, my training numbers tell me how I am doing.” I did not notice my looks, but other people did. Heads turned when I went by, and even three muscle-showoffs checked me out when I went by them. But a situation with a photo of a man’s big arm told me—twenty years after seeing it—that I did have BBRA, the man was correct.
I knew I had bad body image, and I know I still have that. Anyhow, shortly after the above, my life went to hell for thirty years. Some three years later, I am now down to two-sixteen, seventeen percent bodyfat, with some muscle showing. Damn little, mind you, as I am still recovering; and substandard T is not helping!
I have a nice chest, and wear a compression shirt—the air goes right through it! I have a big beard, too. I occasionally will see a man staring at me as though I am something amazing. There is nothing amazing in my mirror, only someone who needs a year of heavy training. I often wonder exactly what those men are seeing, and why am I not seeing it?
So, as a previous poster said, one can train for strength and have bigorexia, too. My knees are bad, but I will be OK when I have a big bench press. Even numerically-rated performance can have dysmorphia!

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

“Muscle dysmorphia…do you have it?” Yes. The whole story is too long to post, so this is terse. I will e-mail it if you are interested.
I trained for strength. Told about “Body Building Reverse Anorexia,” I said, “… I do not have that, my training numbers tell me how I am doing.” I did not notice my looks, but other people did. Heads turned when I went by, and even three muscle-showoffs checked me out when I went by them. But a situation with a photo of a man’s big arm told me—twenty years after seeing it—that I did have BBRA, the man was correct.
I knew I had bad body image, and I know I still have that. Anyhow, shortly after the above, my life went to hell for thirty years. Some three years later, I am now down to two-sixteen, seventeen percent bodyfat, with some muscle showing. Damn little, mind you, as I am still recovering; and substandard T is not helping!
I have a nice chest, and wear a compression shirt—the air goes right through it! I have a big beard, too. I occasionally will see a man staring at me as though I am something amazing. There is nothing amazing in my mirror, only someone who needs a year of heavy training. I often wonder exactly what those men are seeing, and why am I not seeing it?
So, as a previous poster said, one can train for strength and have bigorexia, too. My knees are bad, but I will be OK when I have a big bench press. Even numerically-rated performance can have dysmorphia!

Wow, thanks for sharing. So even though you weren't focussed on how your body looked you still ended up with muscle dysmorphia. That is so interesting. do you think it was other people's reactions to your body that caused it?

 

[DavidGoodmen]

Wow, thanks for sharing. So even though you weren't focussed on how your body looked you still ended up with muscle dysmorphia. That is so interesting. do you think it was other people's reactions to your body that caused it?

I believe it is part of my bad body image, which came from—I am not trying to be shocking, but—my molester step father. Molesters, therapists have told me, do everything possible to ruin the victim’s mind, telling the kid he (or she, even!) is useless, unloved, trash. I often think that if I were not a Sigma then I would have offed myself years ago—like in high-school. The unbreakable Sigma spirit is the only thing which has kept me going, over the years.
I have written about this elsewhere, so it is no secret that I have essentially reached the end of my tolerance for the mess my life has made of me. Looking for information on AAS is why I came here. To be exact, the site came up in Google, when I looked for “tren cough,” which I had heard in a number of videos—I guessed at the spelling.
My nineteen months of training, at age thirty and thirty-one was the only part of my adult life which I actually liked. Feeling the weights move at my command, feeling the forces and managing them, the soreness afterward, the feeling of fullness in the muscles telling me they were worked hard—these are all things I loved. My performance was improved at every session, until I overtrained my bench, that is. Other things were fine.
I am now—if one assumes “now” began 2018 Feb 28—trying to get back into training.
I had labs taken on the fourth. My bioavailable T is 81 from a range of 110 to 575. It could be seven times what it is and still be in spec. I have never given up on training, despite the fact what little I had gained during my slightly productive four months (dumbbell bench went from twenty-five to fifly), has declined twenty percent over the last nineteen months. And, no, it has not escaped my notice that the good and failure periods are the same length. I pointed that out, with some asperity, to my GP during the appointment in which the labs were requested.
The important point, to me, is completely invisible. That is that strength brings with it an amazingly powerful joy. Not the joy of being strong itself, but an incredible feeling which is indescribable, though I have tried. I wrote a piece about this, because I have photographs of three other men feeling it. I recognized the first photograph instantaneously when I saw it. The others took some work, and much looking, respectively. Anyhow—I want that feeling again. It is said a Sigma “…will do whatever it takes to achieve his objectives.” True that.
Whatever you want to know, I am ready to answer.

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

I believe it is part of my bad body image, which came from—I am not trying to be shocking, but—my molester step father. Molesters, therapists have told me, do everything possible to ruin the victim’s mind, telling the kid he (or she, even!) is useless, unloved, trash. I often think that if I were not a Sigma then I would have offed myself years ago—like in high-school. The unbreakable Sigma spirit is the only thing which has kept me going, over the years.
I have written about this elsewhere, so it is no secret that I have essentially reached the end of my tolerance for the mess my life has made of me. Looking for information on AAS is why I came here. To be exact, the site came up in Google, when I looked for “tren cough,” which I had heard in a number of videos—I guessed at the spelling.
My nineteen months of training, at age thirty and thirty-one was the only part of my adult life which I actually liked. Feeling the weights move at my command, feeling the forces and managing them, the soreness afterward, the feeling of fullness in the muscles telling me they were worked hard—these are all things I loved. My performance was improved at every session, until I overtrained my bench, that is. Other things were fine.
I am now—if one assumes “now” began 2018 Feb 28—trying to get back into training.
I had labs taken on the fourth. My bioavailable T is 81 from a range of 110 to 575. It could be seven times what it is and still be in spec. I have never given up on training, despite the fact what little I had gained during my slightly productive four months (dumbbell bench went from twenty-five to fifly), has declined twenty percent over the last nineteen months. And, no, it has not escaped my notice that the good and failure periods are the same length. I pointed that out, with some asperity, to my GP during the appointment in which the labs were requested.
The important point, to me, is completely invisible. That is that strength brings with it an amazingly powerful joy. Not the joy of being strong itself, but an incredible feeling which is indescribable, though I have tried. I wrote a piece about this, because I have photographs of three other men feeling it. I recognized the first photograph instantaneously when I saw it. The others took some work, and much looking, respectively. Anyhow—I want that feeling again. It is said a Sigma “…will do whatever it takes to achieve his objectives.” True that.
Whatever you want to know, I am ready to answer.

You have written something on this? I would love to read it. I hear about the benefits of training for mental health from so many people and I think we need more research in htis area. Did you read my paper on here on whether bodybuilding is good or bad for mental health?

 

[DavidGoodmen]

I will check it out. I tend to forget many things, these days. Memory does work, it is just that I do so many things that most of them are elided.
If this system has a PM process then send an E-mail, I will send PDFs. My writing often skips around in time, but it can be followed.