My hepatic panel on pharmacom Tbol

[Dr JIM]

when do you suggest getting bloodwork? just started on 25mg/day dbol. one week and a half in. 31 y/o healthy (that I know of). just asking

Now that's an interesting question, to which I could (but won't) reply well "everyone is different", lmao!

First obtain baseline LFTS which should include; bilirubin, AST, ALT and Alk phos

The fact is providing you use common sense AND cycle only ONE ORAL AAS for no more than SIX WEEKS you should be fine and repeat LFTS are not necessary!

(That's bc the hepatic effects of AAS in MOST FOLK are cumulative and won't reveal themselves until somewhere around FOUR WEEKS. However some folk have what appears to be a certain hepatic enzyme genetic defect.)


familiarize yourself with the case reports, and in almost every instance those who developed "serious hepatic toxicity" were using more than one oral AAS, for PROLONGED periods and at HIGH DOSES!

However if you believe your "gains" require the use of more than one oral agent for extended periods and at high doses then Milk Thistle is your best friend, but I would also recommend a "prophylactic" entry onto a metropolitan liver transplant list

 

[Dr JIM]

Just kidding, for those in the latter category I would suggest LFTs at 3-4 week intervals until your AAS hepatic tolerance is known.

The recommendation for many potentially hepatotoxic drugs is LFTs at baseline 4, 8 16 weeks and 6 months thereafter.

 

[Getbignotdietrying]

Now that's an interesting question, to which I could (but won't) reply well "everyone is different", lmao!

First obtain baseline LFTS which should include; bilirubin, AST, ALT and Alk phos

The fact is providing you use common sense AND cycle only ONE ORAL AAS for no more than SIX WEEKS you should be fine and repeat LFTS are not necessary!

(That's bc the hepatic effects of AAS in MOST FOLK are cumulative and won't reveal themselves until somewhere around FOUR WEEKS. However some folk have what appears to be a certain hepatic enzyme genetic defect.)


familiarize yourself with the case reports, and in almost every instance those who developed "serious hepatic toxicity" were using more than one oral AAS, for PROLONGED periods and at HIGH DOSES!

However if you believe your "gains" require the use of more than one oral agent for extended periods and at high doses then Milk Thistle is your best friend, but I would also recommend a "prophylactic" entry onto a metropolitan liver transplant list

lol. thanks yea I'm just taking 25mg day, split a.m and pre workout

 

[Getbignotdietrying]

6 wks will be my max. I was thinking 50mg a day for month but this post changed my mind lol. no other orals only test.

 

[Dr JIM]

Orals are fine just use due diligence when doing so!

And if you want to be really sure use: LD-50 and MT and UDCA and NAC,!

Heck why not more is better right, WRONG!

 

[lucabratzi]

My doc says having high alt level may be because of ingesting a lot of protein.

I forget exactly how he put it but something to the extent that when you take in high amounts of protein it breaks down and releases something into the blood. That something is what they look for in client w bad livers. Bad livers release the same thing. Sorry for the remedial explanation.

Are these levels much higher than normal?

 

[Dr JIM]

What or who are you referring to as having "levels much higher than normal"?

 

[lucabratzi]

What or who are you referring to as having "levels much higher than normal"?

The op. If they're higher than normal for him then I'd look further into it.

But if it's been like that for s long time it could just be from protein intake.

 

[penche]

The op. If they're higher than normal for him then I'd look further into it.

But if it's been like that for s long time it could just be from protein intake.

Thanks for your input bud. I did pre-labs and the values were normal, within the 30's range. I then started the Tbol. About 28 days in I decided to test liver function through privatemdlabs. The test was roughly $46 with a coupon, if i had to do it again, I'd retest around midpoint, 14 days in.

I havnt had time to retest but will do it very soon. Blood pressure problem ceased, so hoping the liver LFT's should be back in range.

FYI, drinking beer or alcohol is nothing near this oral from previous testing. A previous test before initial labs prior to tbol, I was hungover badly.

AST was ~50 and ALT was ~90, after a bad hangover next day. Keep tabs on the tests gentlemen.

 

[lucabratzi]

Thanks for your input bud. I did pre-labs and the values were normal, within the 30's range. I then started the Tbol. About 28 days in I decided to test liver function through privatemdlabs. The test was roughly $46 with a coupon, if i had to do it again, I'd retest around midpoint, 14 days in.

I havnt had time to retest but will do it very soon. Blood pressure problem ceased, so hoping the liver LFT's should be back in range.

FYI, drinking beer or alcohol is nothing near this oral from previous testing. A previous test before initial labs prior to tbol, I was hungover badly.

AST was ~50 and ALT was ~90, after a bad hangover next day. Keep tabs on the tests gentlemen.

Well then I'd agree the tbol is harsh.

 

[Dr JIM]

The op. If they're higher than normal for him then I'd look further into it.

But if it's been like that for s long time it could just be from protein intake.

You should read the OPs initial post that began this thread bc LFT elevations of that nature are NOT NORMAL for anyone.

In fact about the only factor that would make me even more concerned, is an elevated bilirubin!

 

[penche]

Got retested and AST and ALT well back in range after 45 days. Check out the results.. Let me if I left any personal info please.

 

[Dr JIM]

Got retested and AST and ALT well back in range after 45 days. Check out the results.. Let me if I left any personal info please.

Thx for the FU

 

[swolteam6]

45 days after last tbol dosage?

 

[penche]

45 days after last tbol dosage?

Yes, last Tbol dose was 45 days ago. Only on testosterone at the time.

Didn't really use any supplements religiously to help recover. Maybe a week of milk thistle and NAC after last tbol dose.

 

[Dr JIM]

Thx for the FU

Bc most folks LFT's normalized SOONER (2-4 weeks IME) , I'm curious did you perform any earlier hepatic tests? I ask bc a delay of six weeks before normalization occurs MAY be indicative of future oral AAS problems!

 

[penche]

Bc most folks LFT's normalized SOONER (2-4 weeks IME) , I'm curious did you perform any earlier hepatic tests? I ask bc a delay of six weeks before normalization occurs MAY be indicative of future oral AAS problems!

Unfortunately I didn't doc, just the one that I recently posted. I'm gettin the hint you're telling me to stay away from oral AAS? lol

 

[Dr JIM]

Not necessarily BUT I'd suggest you obtain LFT's at two week intervals until the desired dosage (which should remain on the medical therapeutic end) is reached. Few people understand, exclusive of rare idiosyncratic reactions, AAS hepatic toxicity is CUMULATIVE and DOSE RELATED,

That being said few orals have any distinct advantages over parenteral AAS when used accordingly.

 

[Sampei]

Not necessarily BUT I'd suggest you obtain LFT's at two week intervals until the desired dosage (which should remain on the medical therapeutic end) is reached. Few people understand, exclusive of rare idiosyncratic reactions, AAS hepatic toxicity is CUMULATIVE and DOSE RELATED,

That being said few orals have any distinct advantages over parenteral AAS when used accordingly.

I'm like him, mostly. Pre cycle everything was 20-22 both alt and ast and ggt was like 15

During orals it shoot up at 70-80 both but ggt stayed in range.

It took me 2 month to get back to normal level.

I was doing 60mg anavar a day.

Last summer I did 40mg anavar day and my liver enzymes stayed at the high end but not above and they did recover anyway faster then the first time.

I'm not using orals anymore, but I believe some person are more prone to oral toxicity.