My introduction.....

[idmd]

Other than carbs did your diet change to account for the increase in ldl. I recall reading that AI's can also increase your ldl as well.

Nope....the only difference was the addition of carbs. Still exercising the same amount at the same intensity. If anything I've backed off of the AI so LDL should've been even better.

This just shows me that at this point the diet was responsible for the major changes in LFTs and my lipid profile and not the test. I guess that makes sense if you consider Dr. Scally's thread on how long it takes to see benefits after starting test - 6-12 months for lipids I believe.

I have to get back to low carbs and weight loss ASAP!

 

[idmd]

carbs aren't evil, but grain based carbs are. I have been grain free for a couple months and my labs are great. Also the most cut and vascular I have ever been. I miss the bread and pasta at first but you get used to it. You get all the carbs and fiber you'll need from eating veggies. Fish and chicken for the protien. I know everyone has different diet theories but this has really worked for me.

By "carbs" I mean simple starchy carbs.....my previous lab results were obtained while eating plenty of fruits and vegies and other complex carbs.

 

[LW64]

IIRC, T can elevate LDL too.

 

[idmd]

IIRC, T can elevate LDL too.

Whether or not the additional simple carbs are part or entirely responsible for these changes it's still a good reminder to get back on the horse and not become one of the +90% who don't keep weight off long term.

That said....my test levels aren't that different from the last blood test and the I think the spike in cholesterol and ALT is telling too.

 

[toolman]

Whether or not the additional simple carbs are part or entirely responsible for these changes it's still a good reminder to get back on the horse and not become one of the +90% who don't keep weight off long term.

That said....my test levels aren't that different from the last blood test and the I think the spike in cholesterol and ALT is telling too.

Your absolutely right, it has to become a permanent lifstyle change, not just one to rach a goal and then celebrate by going back to where you were.

 

[toolman]

IIRC, T can elevate LDL too.

LW64 are there any studies proving this as I have also read that T improves lipid profiles. I tend to agree that there is some negative effect as my LDL rose a bit as well after begining TRT.

 

[LW64]

Whether or not the additional simple carbs are part or entirely responsible for these changes it's still a good reminder to get back on the horse and not become one of the +90% who don't keep weight off long term.

That said....my test levels aren't that different from the last blood test and the I think the spike in cholesterol and ALT is telling too.

I'm with you on losing more weight; that will make the numbers self-correct.

 

[LW64]

LW64 are there any studies proving this as I have also read that T improves lipid profiles. I tend to agree that there is some negative effect as my LDL rose a bit as well after begining TRT.

Too lazy today to look around. Generally, T will help lipids but like anything else there are always exceptions -it can (i.e., it's possible) raise LDL.

 

[idmd]

Your absolutely right, it has to become a permanent lifstyle change, not just one to rach a goal and then celebrate by going back to where you were.

That right! I will never be "normal" and I have to always remind myself of that fact. My body will, if I'm not diligent about monitoring calories/macronutrients, always want to return to my set point....which isn't at 200lbs

 

[idmd]

On another note I'm pretty happy about my E2. I did feel GREAT with it even lower (actually feel exactly the same) but I worried about the possible physiological side effects of being on it long term.

 

[LW64]

That right! I will never be "normal" and I have to always remind myself of that fact. My body will, if I'm not diligent about monitoring calories/macronutrients, always want to return to my set point....which isn't at 200lbs

If carbs are fattening (I believe we all know my opinion on that!), then when you bring them back into your diet, the weight comes back at you like a fat lady walking into a sauna.

In your case, maintenance at your present weight isnt sufficient to keep your labs in line... and I will bet that if you continue with your current 'maintenance', the next thing to happen will be weight GAIN...

 

[idmd]

If carbs are fattening (I believe we all know my opinion on that!), then when you bring them back into your diet, the weight comes back at you like a fat lady walking into a sauna.

In your case, maintenance at your present weight isnt sufficient to keep your labs in line... and I will bet that if you continue with your current 'maintenance', the next thing to happen will be weight GAIN...

I agree....I think the only reason I haven't gained weight is I'm still on a slightly hypocaloric diet and maybe the addition of T3 helped too.

Looking forward I'm in good shape. My exercise routine has been in place for nearly a year, my test levels seem optimum and if anything I'm running a little hyper with thyroid. The first thing that happened on my low carb diet was T3 went down so now that I'm supplementing it perhaps I'll get a little boost from keeping my metabolism up.

 

[idmd]

Sure did....those were just the interesting results....CBCs was all normal except RBCs were slightly elevated 5.84 x10^6/mL (4.14-5.80). The only things close to being elevated were hematocrit at 49.2 (37.5-51) as was hemoglobin 17.0 g/dL (12.6-17.7). Everything else was down the middle.

Anyone concerned about my slight polycythemia and higher-end of range hematocrit?

I know this can be caused by test. One other thing I didn't mention was I discontinued Diovan HCT during this time too since I was hypotensive. I've been normotensive since discontinuing. Can going off Diovan HCT affect EPO production?

 

[toolman]

Anyone concerned about my slight polycythemia and higher-end of range hematocrit?

I know this can be caused by test. One other thing I didn't mention was I discontinued Diovan HCT during this time too since I was hypotensive. I've been normotensive since discontinuing. Can going off Diovan HCT affect EPO production?

Your fine at 49 hematocrit from what Dr. H told me. He said he does not wory unles it is over 51%. If your worried at all you can always donate blood. I did that and down it went into the low 40's.

 

[keriheat]

Anyone concerned about my slight polycythemia and higher-end of range hematocrit?

I know this can be caused by test. One other thing I didn't mention was I discontinued Diovan HCT during this time too since I was hypotensive. I've been normotensive since discontinuing. Can going off Diovan HCT affect EPO production?

The 'Thiazide' (HCT) or lack of may have an effect on the hematocrit. See article.

EPO use is especially dangerous to athletes who exercise over prolonged periods. A well-conditioned endurance athlete is more dehydration resistant than a sedentary individual. The body accomplishes this by several methods, but one key component is to “hold on” to more water at rest. Circulating whole blood is one location in which this occurs and, thus, can function as a water reservoir. During demanding exercise, as fluid losses mount, water is shifted out of the blood stream (hematocrit rises). If one is already starting with an artificially elevated hematocrit then you can begin to see the problem -- it is a short trip to the critical “sludge zone”.

http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/epo.html Article.

Just a thought, kinda

 

[idmd]

Thanks fellas....any thoughts Dr. J and Dr. S?

 

[idmd]

Have to say the addition of T3 has given me more energy and I feel great but it has not resulted in weight loss. Interesting article that shows high free T3 is associated with DECREASED insulin sensitivity.

Wondering if this is detrimental for someone like me who seems to be tittering on the brink of IR.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22956557/

 

[LW64]

Normalizing your T3 may not be enough on its own to stimulate weight loss but it should help when you go back to dieting.

 

[Dr JIM]

IDster, I noted several posts where you listed your TT and E-2 ratios.
Nevertheless, the traditional literature reporting of TT;E-2 ratios are NUMERIC rather than unit comparisons. One of the primary reasons the proportions are not unit based is because the differentiation of (Estrone) E-1, (Estradial) E-2, and (Estriol) E-3 has proved quite difficult using existing assays because each have an identical 18 carbon structure, thus the primary means of differentiating between the three "estrogens" is the number of "hydroxyl groups (OH)" being either one, two, or three, thus their numeric classification as E-1, E-2, or E-3.
Moreover exacting measurements has not proved useful as a diagnostic tool, especially in males, unless the values are above or below the existing lab norms. Consequently, "estrogen" or "estradial" levels must not be compared and contrasted between different labs because the techniques utilized vary considerably! I noticed you were discussing the effects of a lowered "E-2" level and it's effects relative to the thread and I've posted an infertility article, (using the ratios as I described), but also noted no ill effects for estrogen levels of 10-15pg/ml over SIX month period. I believe it also legitimatizes standard therapy Letrozole at 2.5mg QD, which seems to have many 'cyclist" scared to death about "bottoming out their estrogen levels".
Regards, Jim

 

[idmd]

Definitely no problems for me with very low E2.

Any comments about LFTs, lipid profile or my mild polycythemia Dr. Jim?