My long term Super TRT plan

[jJjburton]

Sounds good, tell me what benefits do you get from it?

Great pumps in gym, HR/BP decrease a bit, any headaches if it was high bp related subside, alot of boners. Those are the apparent ones that happen

 

[lukiss96]

Blood pressure is in the high 130's/60's zone currently. Telmisartan 40mg/day, cialis 5mg/day, fish oil 5g/day, magnesium 200mg/day. I also take creatine, it is counterproductive though, but it gives me a good boost in energy and some additional muscle fullness.

Weight is now 226.6lbs to be exact, it is getting tough to lose weight. Everybody I meet who trains says I look lean and big, but I convince myself that I have too much body fat and I need to cut further down to 220lbs.

Today I'm doing 24h fast, no food, just zero calorie drinks and coffee throughout the day. Breakfast to breakfast no food. It is not ideal to consume lots of caffeine when trying to control my BP, but it's just one day.

Not much activities for today, as I will feel dead if I train and then I will want to eat more. Weather is bad today, so I will mainly keep myself busy, drive around and do my business, maybe walk some 10k if this non stop rain ends.

Cutting down gym to only 2x per week now. Doing only essential stuff like compound lifts, just enough to maintain muscle.

Still I feel better than a month or so ago when blood pressure was 150's vs 130's now and even if it will stay this way, I'm gonna be happy cuz at least it's under control and not harming me too much. Hopefully things will improve or at least remain the same.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Cutting down gym to only 2x per week now. Doing only essential stuff like compound lifts, just enough to maintain muscle.

What's up brother? Feeling down today?

P.S. Doctor Pussy wasn't happy with my "age + 100 = systolic blood pressure" rule, so now I'm on 32 mg candesartan (equivalent to 80 mg telmisartan?) and 5 mg nebivolol.

Cardio is bullshit because I run like 6 miles a day.

Blood pressure is in the high 130's/60's zone currently. Telmisartan 40mg/day, cialis 5mg/day, fish oil 5g/day, magnesium 200mg/day.

It is not ideal to consume lots of caffeine when trying to control my BP, but it's just one day.

Still I feel better than a month or so ago when blood pressure was 150's vs 130's now and even if it will stay this way, I'm gonna be happy cuz at least it's under control and not harming me too much. Hopefully things will improve or at least remain the same.

 

[jJjburton]

Blood pressure is in the high 130's/60's zone currently. Telmisartan 40mg/day, cialis 5mg/day, fish oil 5g/day, magnesium 200mg/day. I also take creatine, it is counterproductive though, but it gives me a good boost in energy and some additional muscle fullness.

Weight is now 226.6lbs to be exact, it is getting tough to lose weight. Everybody I meet who trains says I look lean and big, but I convince myself that I have too much body fat and I need to cut further down to 220lbs.

Today I'm doing 24h fast, no food, just zero calorie drinks and coffee throughout the day. Breakfast to breakfast no food. It is not ideal to consume lots of caffeine when trying to control my BP, but it's just one day.

Not much activities for today, as I will feel dead if I train and then I will want to eat more. Weather is bad today, so I will mainly keep myself busy, drive around and do my business, maybe walk some 10k if this non stop rain ends.

Cutting down gym to only 2x per week now. Doing only essential stuff like compound lifts, just enough to maintain muscle.

Still I feel better than a month or so ago when blood pressure was 150's vs 130's now and even if it will stay this way, I'm gonna be happy cuz at least it's under control and not harming me too much. Hopefully things will improve or at least remain the same.

Fasted cardio 60 min long, hgh 150 min pre cardio, 130 bpm steady, elliptical 4-5x a week. One method that works well. Also this will make bloodwork better. For 3-4 weeks. Eat only in 6 hour window. Bloodwork will improve imenslely.

 

[lukiss96]

What's up brother? Feeling down today?

P.S. Doctor Pussy wasn't happy with my "age + 100 = systolic blood pressure" rule, so now I'm on 32 mg candesartan (equivalent to 80 mg telmisartan?) and 5 mg nebivolol.

Cardio is bullshit because I run like 6 miles a day.

Fasted cardio 60 min long, hgh 150 min pre cardio, 130 bpm steady, elliptical 4-5x a week. One method that works well. Also this will make bloodwork better. For 3-4 weeks. Eat only in 6 hour window. Bloodwork will improve imenslely.

Thanks for suggestions guys, I make sure I'm pretty active. I don't track my cardio but my activity levels are definitely in the active person category. Overall I'm fine with this bp, it's much better than 150's. Still some 5 pounds to lose and it shall drop some points too.

 

[malfeasance]

Cardio - there may be a language barrier thing going on, but most of us are talking about getting the heart rate up. A walk in the woods is great, but that is not what we mean by cardio. We mean track your heart rate and get it over 130 beats per minute for 20 minutes or more several times a week and see whether that affects your blood pressure.

 

[malfeasance]

Over time, you can increase the duration of the cardio sessions.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Cardio - there may be a language barrier thing going on, but most of us are talking about getting the heart rate up. A walk in the woods is great, but that is not what we mean by cardio. We mean track your heart rate and get it over 130 beats per minute for 20 minutes or more several times a week and see whether that affects your blood pressure.

I run 6 miles in about an hour. So it's more like jogging. Sometimes it's a little faster than an hour.

I also get over 10k steps but don't count that as cardio.

The language barrier comment is particularly relevant here because a lot of bodybuilders consider walking to be cardio.

 

[jJjburton]

Not yet. I feel run down after my work shift ends, I hit 15-20k steps daily and probably half of it are stairs. I'd say it's a cardio itself. I can't find energy to do cardio apart from walking and swimming until I get a better job which is not so soon. I'm thinking about taking cialis. I'm currently taking lisinopril 20mg/nightly. What are your recommendations like dosage, timing and etc?

I take 2.5 mg ed. Timing doesnt matter much due to half life. I usually take at night, because i am doing fasted things in morning. I was taking 5 mg, but 2.5 ed is good. Honestly its great, pumps and bp. Only thing is i do get untimely erections.

It helps alot. In general.

 

[UncleBuns]

@lukiss96 How is the new protocol going? Health trending in the direction you wanted?

 

[lukiss96]

@lukiss96 How is the new protocol going? Health trending in the direction you wanted?

Hey man, thanks for asking. I'd say not exactly, I should have stayed on lisinopril since it was more effective at lowering my blood pressure. So currently I'm switching back.

Two things I'm slacking on is losing weight and cardio. Weight seems to be locked at 225-230lbs no matter what I do, I lose fat all right and get leaner visually, I just can't go lower in weight which sounds good, but I kinda feel too heavy.

As hard as it is, but I'm gonna cut gym to just once per week now. Lose some size, even 5 pounds would help and replace gym time with more activities outside.

 

[kosp]

The time to protect your hair is now.

Hair loss isn't when you see a bunch of hair in your hands while showering, it's the imperceptible loss of stem cells from follicles, resulting in each replacement hair having a thinner shaft. It takes a minimal effort to dial in a protective dose of meds to lock in the hair of your 20s in for a lifetime, with no side effects when you get it right.

A worthwhile investment in yourself, so when you're older and have built up more value, you'll distinguish yourself from other successful men your age with a thick head of hair. It really stands out, and no matter how much you think it wont matter because you'll be married by then, you'll regret letting that advantage slip away needlessly.

minimal effort and no side effects? what meds are you thinking of?

 

[Ghoul]

minimal effort and no side effects? what meds are you thinking of?

Low dose minoxidil (2.5mg) and finasteride (.25mg).

No more difficult than taking a daily vitamin, and at the quoted very low doses, side effects are extremely rare.

In fact, there's a small net benefit to overall health (beyond protecting hair) from both.

The hardest part is getting them, but even that isn't. too difficult. Either a cooperative doctor writes a script, make a $20 appt with a telehealth doc to get a script, or just buy it from India pharma, the cheapest option. Just not UGL, or homebrewed from raws, or putting drops of topical minox on your tongue, since proper dosage is crucial to avoid sides.

 

[lukiss96]

Low dose minoxidil (2.5mg) and finasteride (.25mg).

No more difficult than taking a daily vitamin, and at the quoted very low doses, side effects are extremely rare.

In fact, there's a small net benefit to overall health (beyond protecting hair) from both.

The hardest part is getting them, but even that isn't. too difficult. Either a cooperative doctor writes a script, make a $20 appt with a telehealth doc to get a script, or just buy it from India pharma, the cheapest option. Just not UGL, or homebrewed from raws, or putting drops of topical minox on your tongue, since proper dosage is crucial to avoid sides.

Hey man, you seem to be knowledgeable on BP meds. I'm trying to figure out how and why lisinopril is much more effective for me than telmisartan. Everywhere I read they are supposed to provide similar results, yet for me lisinopril knocks down 20-25 systolic points while telmisartan only about 10-15. I understand they're different class. Just wondering.

Example:
Lisinopril 120's/60-70 (rarely gets in to 130's zone)
Telmisartan 135-140/70's

I know that I have isolated hypertension, but lisinopril seems to be working well for this. Your thoughts?

 

[kosp]

Low dose minoxidil (2.5mg) and finasteride (.25mg).

No more difficult than taking a daily vitamin, and at the quoted very low doses, side effects are extremely rare.

In fact, there's a small net benefit to overall health (beyond protecting hair) from both.

The hardest part is getting them, but even that isn't. too difficult. Either a cooperative doctor writes a script, make a $20 appt with a telehealth doc to get a script, or just buy it from India pharma, the cheapest option. Just not UGL, or homebrewed from raws, or putting drops of topical minox on your tongue, since proper dosage is crucial to avoid sides.

oral minoxidil only would be enough for prevention if you are not losing hair?

i don´t really want to block my DHT conversion

 

[Ghoul]

oral minoxidil only would be enough for prevention if you are not losing hair?

i don´t really want to block my DHT conversion

No it's not enough.

Hair grows, stops, falls out, the follicle rests, then a new hair starts to grow again, That's the hair growth cycle.

You have a "bulb" of stem cells that are the factories that create each strand of hair.

Our cells normally have something called "immune privilege" that prevent them from being mistaken as harmful invaders.

DHT attaches to receptors on the stem cells, which causes the loss of "immune privilege". They're attacked, become inflamed, and die. They never grow back.

With fewer stem cells, the next hair grown will be thinner than the previous one. This process keeps repeating until the hair is so thin it's no longer visible.

Minoxidil gets more blood and nutrients to the bulb, so the stem cells become more
productive, offsetting the fact there are fewer of them. But eventually enough stem cells will be killed off that minoxidil won't be able to stimulate any hair growth from that bulb.

Twice a week 2% Ketoconazole shampoo left on for 5 minutes will "cool" the inflammation that kills the stem cells that DHT has attached to, but again, won't stop the process.

DHT is the root cause of the slow motion destruction of your hair. The hair bulbs in the "male pattern baldness" area have more DHT receptors, which is why hair is destroyed in that pattern.

So if you do one thing, a tiny dose
of Finasteride will be what's responsible for 90% of hair protection. .25mg is NOTHING. It's absolutely minuscule and can not possibly crash your DHT levels.

If you don't do that, minoxidil will buy a little more time, but the underlying destruction will still be going on.

Remember, your hair is as good as it's ever going to be, right now. The strands are already thinner than they were 5 years ago because of DHT, even if it's not an obvious difference yet. By the time you can notice it, a huge amount of irreversible damage is done. It's worth protecting.

Don't find yourself in a position. years down the road, looking for a good hair transplant surgeon, only to find out you have to go on finasteride, discover you have zero side effects. and kick yourself for not just doing that to begin with, keeping good hair that no transplant could ever replicate.

We don't wait for our teeth to fall out before brushing them, or let an irrational fear of fluoride scare you away from the most effective anti-cavity, anti-toothless treatment available, despite a movement of fluoride fear mongers as vocal as the anti-finasteride activists.

Would doctors continue to commonly prescribe "poison" for 30+ years and risk being sued into oblivion? It's absurd. The fears are all from the crappy, but temporary and reversible effects of taking too much finasteride, just like taking too much of an AI crashes estrogen, but doesn't "break" anything.

I'm extremely sensitive to DHT levels. 1mg / day fin, the normal dose most guys have no sides from, destroys me. .25mg is completely fine even for me, and you're probably not hypersensitive.

 

[lukiss96]

Some changes to my protocol:
-Test U 150mg/week (used to be sesame oil based, now I got it in castor)
-Cialis 5mg daily

 

[kosp]

No it's not enough.

Hair grows, stops, falls out, the follicle rests, then a new hair starts to grow again, That's the hair growth cycle.

You have a "bulb" of stem cells that are the factories that create each strand of hair.

Our cells normally have something called "immune privilege" that prevent them from being mistaken as harmful invaders.

DHT attaches to receptors on the stem cells, which causes the loss of "immune privilege". They're attacked, become inflamed, and die. They never grow back.

With fewer stem cells, the next hair grown will be thinner than the previous one. This process keeps repeating until the hair is so thin it's no longer visible.

Minoxidil gets more blood and nutrients to the bulb, so the stem cells become more
productive, offsetting the fact there are fewer of them. But eventually enough stem cells will be killed off that minoxidil won't be able to stimulate any hair growth from that bulb.

Twice a week 2% Ketoconazole shampoo left on for 5 minutes will "cool" the inflammation that kills the stem cells that DHT has attached to, but again, won't stop the process.

DHT is the root cause of the slow motion destruction of your hair. The hair bulbs in the "male pattern baldness" area have more DHT receptors, which is why hair is destroyed in that pattern.

So if you do one thing, a tiny dose
of Finasteride will be what's responsible for 90% of hair protection. .25mg is NOTHING. It's absolutely minuscule and can not possibly crash your DHT levels.

If you don't do that, minoxidil will buy a little more time, but the underlying destruction will still be going on.

Remember, your hair is as good as it's ever going to be, right now. The strands are already thinner than they were 5 years ago because of DHT, even if it's not an obvious difference yet. By the time you can notice it, a huge amount of irreversible damage is done. It's worth protecting.

Don't find yourself in a position. years down the road, looking for a good hair transplant surgeon, only to find out you have to go on finasteride, discover you have zero side effects. and kick yourself for not just doing that to begin with, keeping good hair that no transplant could ever replicate.

We don't wait for our teeth to fall out before brushing them, or let an irrational fear of fluoride scare you away from the most effective anti-cavity, anti-toothless treatment available, despite a movement of fluoride fear mongers as vocal as the anti-finasteride activists.

Would doctors continue to commonly prescribe "poison" for 30+ years and risk being sued into oblivion? It's absurd. The fears are all from the crappy, but temporary and reversible effects of taking too much finasteride, just like taking too much of an AI crashes estrogen, but doesn't "break" anything.

I'm extremely sensitive to DHT levels. 1mg / day fin, the normal dose most guys have no sides from, destroys me. .25mg is completely fine even for me, and you're probably not hypersensitive.

Where do you get 0.25mg format for fina? It is usually available in 1 and 5 mg

 

[Ghoul]

Where do you get 0.25mg format for fina? It is usually available in 1 and 5 mg

It's a crime the .25mg tabs aren't available since that should be the starting dose for hair loss in my opinion, rather than starting at 1mg and only after experiencing sides have to go back down (or worse, just quit like a lot of guys).

Unfortunately as a generic no one will spend the money to get .25mg doses approved by the FDA, which would be required to be put on the market.

I have a pill splitter, which still results in 4 uneven pieces because the 1mg tabs are so small.

However, by taking those four pieces in a row, despite the slight variation in dose from day to day, it still ends up being just 1mg over four days. I think this is also a better side effect avoidance strategy than taking a full 1mg and skipping days. Steady doses of medications in general seem to induce fewer sides. (with exceptions, like aromasin, because its effects are so long acting).

 

[kosp]

No it's not enough.

Hair grows, stops, falls out, the follicle rests, then a new hair starts to grow again, That's the hair growth cycle.

You have a "bulb" of stem cells that are the factories that create each strand of hair.

Our cells normally have something called "immune privilege" that prevent them from being mistaken as harmful invaders.

DHT attaches to receptors on the stem cells, which causes the loss of "immune privilege". They're attacked, become inflamed, and die. They never grow back.

With fewer stem cells, the next hair grown will be thinner than the previous one. This process keeps repeating until the hair is so thin it's no longer visible.

Minoxidil gets more blood and nutrients to the bulb, so the stem cells become more
productive, offsetting the fact there are fewer of them. But eventually enough stem cells will be killed off that minoxidil won't be able to stimulate any hair growth from that bulb.

Twice a week 2% Ketoconazole shampoo left on for 5 minutes will "cool" the inflammation that kills the stem cells that DHT has attached to, but again, won't stop the process.

DHT is the root cause of the slow motion destruction of your hair. The hair bulbs in the "male pattern baldness" area have more DHT receptors, which is why hair is destroyed in that pattern.

So if you do one thing, a tiny dose
of Finasteride will be what's responsible for 90% of hair protection. .25mg is NOTHING. It's absolutely minuscule and can not possibly crash your DHT levels.

If you don't do that, minoxidil will buy a little more time, but the underlying destruction will still be going on.

Remember, your hair is as good as it's ever going to be, right now. The strands are already thinner than they were 5 years ago because of DHT, even if it's not an obvious difference yet. By the time you can notice it, a huge amount of irreversible damage is done. It's worth protecting.

Don't find yourself in a position. years down the road, looking for a good hair transplant surgeon, only to find out you have to go on finasteride, discover you have zero side effects. and kick yourself for not just doing that to begin with, keeping good hair that no transplant could ever replicate.

We don't wait for our teeth to fall out before brushing them, or let an irrational fear of fluoride scare you away from the most effective anti-cavity, anti-toothless treatment available, despite a movement of fluoride fear mongers as vocal as the anti-finasteride activists.

Would doctors continue to commonly prescribe "poison" for 30+ years and risk being sued into oblivion? It's absurd. The fears are all from the crappy, but temporary and reversible effects of taking too much finasteride, just like taking too much of an AI crashes estrogen, but doesn't "break" anything.

I'm extremely sensitive to DHT levels. 1mg / day fin, the normal dose most guys have no sides from, destroys me. .25mg is completely fine even for me, and you're probably not hypersensitive.

Now that I think about it, I'm not totally on board with your approach. You're pushing for taking anti-androgenic meds preventively no matter what. I think that first we need to admit that not everyone needs to take finasteride. It should be checked out with a dermatologist first. I believe that the fewer drugs and the less we mess with nature, the better. Honestly, even if I needed it, I'd rather be bald than deal with the side effects of finasteride and post finasteride syndrome.

I am saying this as a natty, if i were on testosterone i wouldn't mind because i would have a shit ton of androgens in my blood anyway.