Noon question about on & post cycle.

[Echo6]

Hello,

New guy with a noob question. I have been reading and researching a lot lately and stumbled into this Web page written by "Growth Factor":

Using Testosterone for Muscle Gains

Does this cycle make sense to you guys? I was going to follow this cycle to the letter since it would be my first and I don't have any experience to fall back on. I would appreciate any feedback.

My stats: 35, 185lbs, 5'6", 19%bf. I'm not a stranger to the gym. Never ventured beyond over the counter supplements.

Will lab work once I have everything I need and ready for the first pin.

P.s... autocorrect screwed with my thread title. Should have been "noob" not noon.

Weeks 1-10:
*500mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 11:
*300mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 12:
*200mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 13:
*1.25mg of finasteride per day
*.25mg of Arimidex every other day
*100mg of clomid every day

Week 14:
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every 3rd day (0.25mg)
*50mg of clomid every day

 

[dreamkiller]

Drop the clomid untill pct , get some nova for pct , get some hcg for pct .
One your gonna only do a q week pct
Two , is this your first cycle .
3 there are specific threads on here about pct .

 

[Dr JIM]

PLEASE don't cycle until you have vastly expanded your fund of knowledge about WHAT you're cycling WHY you're cycling, WHAT could be achieved WITHOUT running AAS, the ADVERSE EFFECTS of AAS AND the particulars of PCT.

First and foremost it's critical you obtain labs before you cycle anything, which at the minimum should include a TT, E-2, LH/FSH levels.

I'll touch on a few of your questions nonetheless with respect to this "cycles" PCT

Since TT levels must be quite low the use of Finesteride, which inhibits the conversion of TT to DHT, will likely drop your libido to ZERO!

Amiridex is generally not required but some like to include it bc it results in a further reduction of E-2. This MAY be beneficial bc it better maintains a "normal" TT:E-2 ratio an diminish the adverse effects of PCT on libido.

CLOMID is the Drug of Choice for PCT primarily bc it is EVIDENCE BASED therapy for a related condition in medicine, MALE and FEMALE INFERTILITY

Sal Palmeto has similar effects as Finesteride and is a waste of money IMO

 

[Dr JIM]

Finally in order for SERM related PCT to be effective exogenous TT (that's the test you injected) must fall to at least 300mg/DL and that takes time.

How much time depends upon the TT-ester (which you failed to mention prob bc your unaware of its importance) you'll be pinning.

So for the T-c OR T-e ester a waiting period of at least 3 and preferably 4 weeks will be needed before Clomid will do anything fella.

However the most reliable means of knowing when Clomid can be started is thru drawing blood for a test level.

With respect to HCG, a reasonable guide with respect to its benefit, is the magnitude of testicular atrophy which has occurred bc of AAS use.

However HCG therapy can delay the onset of effective PCT if not timed appropriately, (bc it increases BOTH TT and E-2) which is the last week ot two of a cycle and the last week or two of the post-cycle interval.

On and with respect to the TRSTOSTERONE DOSE? With few exceptions 500mg is the most first time cyclists should be using primarily bc its some 5-7 X their endogenous level.

I really can't add much more to help fella until you POST a COPY of your pre-cycle blood work, bc it is SOOOOO important, as is all the other blood work experienced BB obtain to guide them thru effective cycling and HTPA recovery!

Good luck
Jim

 

[Echo6]

Finally in order for SERM related PCT to be effective exogenous TT (that's the test you injected) must fall to at least 300mg/DL and that takes time.

How much time depends upon the TT-ester (which you failed to mention prob bc your unaware of its importance) you'll be pinning.

So for the T-c OR T-e ester a waiting period of at least 3 and preferably 4 weeks will be needed before Clomid will do anything fella.

However the most reliable means of knowing when Clomid can be started is thru drawing blood for a test level.

With respect to HCG, a reasonable guide with respect to its benefit, is the magnitude of testicular atrophy which has occurred bc of AAS use.

However HCG therapy can delay the onset of effective PCT if not timed appropriately, (bc it increases BOTH TT and E-2) which is the last week ot two of a cycle and the last week or two of the post-cycle interval.

On and with respect to the TRSTOSTERONE DOSE? With few exceptions 500mg is the most first time cyclists should be using primarily bc its some 5-7 X their endogenous level.

I really can't add much more to help fella until you POST a COPY of your pre-cycle blood work, bc it is SOOOOO important, as is all the other blood work experienced BB obtain to guide them thru effective cycling and HTPA recovery!

Good luck
Jim

Thank you for taking the time to provide me with an in depth explanation. I will continue to read more about AAS and PCT. Will post blood work a week or two prior to first pin... whenever that may be.

 

[Comfortable]

While dr Jim said it is OK to take I hate arimidex ,crashes the fu k out of estrogen and gives me painfully sore joints and overall feeling of being sick like I'm going to die flu sick. Just adding it to a cycle because your bro told you too or some fat estrogen making, poor diet slob told you too makes no sense. Need to take as few chemicals as possible at 1 time to understand how they affect you.

Week 1 thru 12
500MG test

Week 14
Pct

 

[brutus79]

While dr Jim said it is OK to take I hate arimidex ,crashes the fu k out of estrogen and gives me painfully sore joints and overall feeling of being sick like I'm going to die flu sick. Just adding it to a cycle because your bro told you too or some fat estrogen making, poor diet slob told you too makes no sense. Need to take as few chemicals as possible at 1 time to understand how they affect you.

Week 1 thru 12
500MG test

Week 14
Pct

If it made you feel that way you took too much

 

[Comfortable]

Less than a quarter of a pill on 2 differnt occasions if I am running less than 600mg week of test e my estrogen levels are usually under 125.

I wasny saying don't buy it or have it. I am saying don't take the shit unless you need it. Taking it blindly is like wearing a condom everyday hoping you find some strange.

 

[Comfortable]

Information I left out. 125 on 25-60 scale of lab test

 

[Dr JIM]

The adverse effects of AIs on "joint health" MAY occur independent of their influence on E-2 levels.

I know some folk just can't tolerate the arthropathy associated with AIs in spite of NORMAL estrogen levels.

 

[ironwill1951]

under 125 is not good.

Less than a quarter of a pill on 2 differnt occasions if I am running less than 600mg week of test e my estrogen levels are usually under 125.

I wasny saying don't buy it or have it. I am saying don't take the shit unless you need it. Taking it blindly is like wearing a condom everyday hoping you find some strange.

 

[ironwill1951]

that cycle is terrible. clomid is for pct, and you don't need to taper down on your test at the end. just run a standard 1-12 500 mg/ wk test cycle. simplify.

 

[naturalkon]

My new advice to everyone who asks is do not touch aas unless you are willing to supplement testosterone for the rest of your life. That is it. I mean there's no point to just do one cycle. Because once you come off you'll lose everything you have gained. So unless you're ready to make a lifetime commitment. I don't think aas is for you.

 

[Dr JIM]

My new advice to everyone who asks is do not touch aas unless you are willing to supplement testosterone for the rest of your life. That is it. I mean there's no point to just do one cycle. Because once you come off you'll lose everything you have gained. So unless you're ready to make a lifetime commitment. I don't think aas is for you.

There A LOT of truth to that statement!

Running AAS caries a finite risk of NEVER recovering pre-cycle HTPA functioning, and for those unfortunate few that's usually means TRT

 

[Echo6]

There A LOT of truth to that statement!

Running AAS caries a finite risk of NEVER recovering pre-cycle HTPA functioning, and for those unfortunate few that's usually means TRT

Damn. And I am here thinking I could just run 1 cycle to put on 20lbs of muscle hopping to keep 12-15 lbs after the cycle.

What is the best way to boost natural T to the max without actually running a cycle?

Would taking PCT without having actually cycled boost natural T levels?

Thanks for all the comments.

 

[Flaming Dragon]

Damn. And I am here thinking I could just run 1 cycle to put on 20lbs of muscle hopping to keep 12-15 lbs after the cycle.

What is the best way to boost natural T to the max without actually running a cycle?

Would taking PCT without having actually cycled boost natural T levels?

Thanks for all the comments.

Not really much you can bro.. as you/we age.. it drops.. father-time keep ticking away..

 

[Dr JIM]

And I am here thinking I could just run 1 cycle to put on 20lbs of muscle hopping to keep 12-15 lbs after the cycle.

Reflecting back, have you any idea how often I hear that comment on behalf of patients?

Really why something so counterintuitive permeates modern day BB/AAS forums surprises me to say the least.

Think about it! Since AAS was the stimuli required to build SKM what's going to happen when that stimuli is removed!

Ok sure, the other contributor was, I hope, the EXERCISE routine you embarked upon as a means of enhancing SKM anabolism.

So you want them bi's and tri's shrivel like some prune in the Sierra Nevada desert, stop exercising and whatever PED you're cycling........ case closed.

Natural TT production can be enhanced thru incorporating COMPOUND exercises (squat deadlift ) into ones routine

HOWEVER before you proceed any further let me suggest you obtain YOUR BASELINE TT, LH/FSH and E-2 levels.