Old (47) man Intensity and Recovery cycle planning (BJJ focus)

[morpheusx2003]

Brief introduction and Context
I'm a 47 years old male, 5.8", weight varies between 80kgs at 12% BF to 83kgs at 15% BF.

I've done bodybuilding/strength training since i was 20 years old (and around 55kgs), and boxing since i was 30. My routine in the last few years has been 2x week strength training, 3x week boxing sessions, and 1 Cardiac output session per week, for a total of 6 sessions per week.

3 Months ago i started BJJ, training 5x a week, with 2x strength training sessions, for a total of 7 sessions a week: One rest day, and one day with two sessions, a morning Strength session and a BJJ class at the afternoon.

Unfortunately, the 5x sessions have proved to be to demanding, although i was in an excellent shape, i haven't been able to recover from the intensity of the BJJ training. Part of this is due to the fact i've been trying to compensate my lack of technique with strength, but even so, its been very hard to recover, even after dropping the strength training.

Goals
Given i'm approaching 50's, i'm looking for a way to be able to recover and train for the 5 weekly BJJ sessions with maximum intensity with 2 weekly strength sessions. I'm not looking for a big weight increase, as i like where i am physically, if i had to improve anything i would like to be around 80/82 kgs at 10% BF.

Given my goals, i have 4 cycle options in mind, each with its pros/cons.
I'm going to do bloodwork to see where i'm at, before deciding the doses: if my test values are high/normal for my age, i will probably go with a higher dose, if lower than normal, will do a lower dose. I have Letrozole on hand, just in case, hope it won't be needed.

Option 1: 10 Weeks, 200mg to 350mg Test Cyp per week, 2 injections M/T;
Pros: Easy to get, Simple, less injections, should be enough for intensity and recovering.
Cons: Long ester, so less time in the optimum window.

Option 2: 10 Weeks, 200mg to 350mg Test Prop per week, 3 injections M/W/F;
Pros: Easy to get, Simple, effective, short ester, so more time in the optimum window, can start PCT sooner
Cons: Afraid of the Prop PIP and flue, as it can have a negative effect on training; More injections.

Option 3: 10 Weeks, 200mg to 350mg Test Phenylpropionate per week, 3 injections M/W/F;
Pros: Same as prop, hopefully less PIP
Cons: Only one EU vendor has it

Option 4: 12 Weeks, 200mg Test Cyp + 200mg Equipose per week, 2 injections M/T;
Pros: Easy to get, Simple, less injections, should be enough for intensity and recovering; Adding Equipose should add with cardio and training intensity.
Cons: More time ON, PCT starts very late due to EQ, more complex for first cycle.

What to choose?
Based on the above, and on the goals i'm seeking, what do you think is the safest, simple, and more effective option?

 

[may2021]

250 test - inject EOD. That's it.

Like any good martial art, strength always takes a back seat to technique & breathing: cardio.
Look at Aikido. Look at the Gracie brothers. Neither art requires strength.

You might just be in a bad dojo with the wrong mindset.

If not, drop the # of jujitsu classes until you catch your breath.
If you add more compounds, you'll be worse off. Guaranteed.

 

[JC Grifter]

Low Test Cyp and Tbol. The endurance from Tbol is great. I’ve used it twice and felt like I could train forever

 

[may2021]

Low Test Cyp and Tbol. The endurance from Tbol is great. I’ve used it twice and felt like I could train forever

I'm a newb with AAS but not with either martial art - Aikido and Jujitsu.

Here's what I know.
If you learn any martial art in an altered state (the above two for instance) you'll absolutely suck at it once you stop using whatever caused the altered state: AAS, Stimulants...like Adderall... whatever.

Learn a martial art under those circumstances which you find yourself in, most of the time. Otherwise at a certain point, you'll basically be forced to relearn everything. Your sense of timing, accuracy, breathing, endurance, focus, drive, purpose - are vastly different when using 20mgs of Adderall or being on 600 test, than when not.

Keep gear/shit to an absolute minimum if you want to master anything - especially a martial art - outside bodybuilding.

 

[TrenTrenTren]

I'm a newb with AAS but not with either martial art - Aikido and Jujitsu.

Here's what I know.
If you learn any martial art in an altered state (the above two for instance) you'll absolutely suck at it once you stop using whatever caused the altered state: AAS, Stimulants...like Adderall... whatever.

Learn a martial art under those circumstances which you find yourself in, most of the time. Otherwise at a certain point, you'll basically be forced to relearn everything. Your sense of timing, accuracy, breathing, endurance, focus, drive, purpose - are vastly different when using 20mgs of Adderall or being on 600 test, than when not.

Keep gear/shit to an absolute minimum if you want to master anything - especially a martial art - outside bodybuilding.

Hmmmm...I disagree, but what do I know. When I roll on Tren, I hate that I get so fatigued easily. When I am off cycle, I feel like I can go hard for a good 10-15 min, depending on who I'm rolling with.

 

[TrenTrenTren]

Brief introduction and Context
I'm a 47 years old male, 5.8", weight varies between 80kgs at 12% BF to 83kgs at 15% BF.

I've done bodybuilding/strength training since i was 20 years old (and around 55kgs), and boxing since i was 30. My routine in the last few years has been 2x week strength training, 3x week boxing sessions, and 1 Cardiac output session per week, for a total of 6 sessions per week.

3 Months ago i started BJJ, training 5x a week, with 2x strength training sessions, for a total of 7 sessions a week: One rest day, and one day with two sessions, a morning Strength session and a BJJ class at the afternoon.

Unfortunately, the 5x sessions have proved to be to demanding, although i was in an excellent shape, i haven't been able to recover from the intensity of the BJJ training. Part of this is due to the fact i've been trying to compensate my lack of technique with strength, but even so, its been very hard to recover, even after dropping the strength training.

Goals
Given i'm approaching 50's, i'm looking for a way to be able to recover and train for the 5 weekly BJJ sessions with maximum intensity with 2 weekly strength sessions. I'm not looking for a big weight increase, as i like where i am physically, if i had to improve anything i would like to be around 80/82 kgs at 10% BF.

Given my goals, i have 4 cycle options in mind, each with its pros/cons.
I'm going to do bloodwork to see where i'm at, before deciding the doses: if my test values are high/normal for my age, i will probably go with a higher dose, if lower than normal, will do a lower dose. I have Letrozole on hand, just in case, hope it won't be needed.

Option 1: 10 Weeks, 200mg to 350mg Test Cyp per week, 2 injections M/T;
Pros: Easy to get, Simple, less injections, should be enough for intensity and recovering.
Cons: Long ester, so less time in the optimum window.

Option 2: 10 Weeks, 200mg to 350mg Test Prop per week, 3 injections M/W/F;
Pros: Easy to get, Simple, effective, short ester, so more time in the optimum window, can start PCT sooner
Cons: Afraid of the Prop PIP and flue, as it can have a negative effect on training; More injections.

Option 3: 10 Weeks, 200mg to 350mg Test Phenylpropionate per week, 3 injections M/W/F;
Pros: Same as prop, hopefully less PIP
Cons: Only one EU vendor has it

Option 4: 12 Weeks, 200mg Test Cyp + 200mg Equipose per week, 2 injections M/T;
Pros: Easy to get, Simple, less injections, should be enough for intensity and recovering; Adding Equipose should add with cardio and training intensity.
Cons: More time ON, PCT starts very late due to EQ, more complex for first cycle.

What to choose?
Based on the above, and on the goals i'm seeking, what do you think is the safest, simple, and more effective option?

Welcome to BJJ in your 40s brotha. It never gets easier, and your joints never recover. There's no drug that's going to help.

 

[GuerillaPete]

250 test - inject EOD. That's it.

Like any good martial art, strength always takes a back seat to technique & breathing: cardio.
Look at Aikido. Look at the Gracie brothers. Neither art requires strength.

You might just be in a bad dojo with the wrong mindset.

If not, drop the # of jujitsu classes until you catch your breath.
If you add more compounds, you'll be worse off. Guaranteed.

I dont know brother Rickson Gracie was pretty jacked and the strongest/best of the bunch!
You really think all things being equal strength and stamina wont make the difference ?

 

[GuerillaPete]

Test + deca/eq + mast/primo+Tbol/dbol/adrol +gh maybe slin is the ultimate stack now you can work your way backwards and eliminate what you are not comfortable using.
Any enhancement is better than none, start easy and ad things with time as you lean your body.
From your stack selection i would choose the test prop its fast in and out you get to learn what test does and get used to the 3xweek pinning which in my opinion is best when cycling!

 

[JC Grifter]

I'm a newb with AAS but not with either martial art - Aikido and Jujitsu.

Here's what I know.
If you learn any martial art in an altered state (the above two for instance) you'll absolutely suck at it once you stop using whatever caused the altered state: AAS, Stimulants...like Adderall... whatever.

Learn a martial art under those circumstances which you find yourself in, most of the time. Otherwise at a certain point, you'll basically be forced to relearn everything. Your sense of timing, accuracy, breathing, endurance, focus, drive, purpose - are vastly different when using 20mgs of Adderall or being on 600 test, than when not.

Keep gear/shit to an absolute minimum if you want to master anything - especially a martial art - outside bodybuilding.

Maybe it’s individual. I never had that issue when I use to train in martial arts when I was younger

 

[morpheusx2003]

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not looking to be "bodybuilding enhanced", but i think a low dose of testosterone will be useful to support the extra activity.

The dojo is great, colegues are great, its my competitive mindset that wants to be as good as possible

I'll wait for the bloodwork, i'm leaning towards 200-300mg test prop per week., let's hope i get no PIP.

 

[may2021]

I dont know brother Rickson Gracie was pretty jacked and the strongest/best of the bunch!
You really think all things being equal strength and stamina wont make the difference ?

I guess my thinking was that for older guys, more gear equals a harder time breathing / less endurance and he mentioned being wiped out training 5 times a week..

 

[GuerillaPete]

I guess my thinking was that for older guys, more gear equals a harder time breathing / less endurance and he mentioned being wiped out training 5 times a week..

True one must watch volume! Thats why i always start low with everything and up it as needed this goes for training,gear,calories.
Competitive athletes have a habit of doing to much to soon good catch there

 

[morpheusx2003]

I guess my thinking was that for older guys, more gear equals a harder time breathing / less endurance and he mentioned being wiped out training 5 times a week..

That's why i'm leaning towards a very simple cycle, just a small dose of test to help counteract the normal decrease due to age.

 

[GuerillaPete]

That's why i'm leaning towards a very simple cycle, just a small dose of test to help counteract the normal decrease due to age.

Smart move you dont need high dosages for performance enhancement .
Make sure to eat enough calories to support your training and try to get enough rest.
A next step would be hgh when you feel ready as that with testosterone will give you great recovery.

 

[morpheusx2003]

Make sure to eat enough calories to support your training and try to get enough rest.

My diet is always on point, i started with 55kgs, and only through weight training and a controlled diet i was able to get to 80/82 kgs (being only 5 8") with a reasonable BF % (12% to 14%).

I force myself to sleep at least 9h per day, even if i need to take a nap in the afternoon

I also supplement with Fish Oils, Magnesium, Zinc, Vit D3, beetroot juice, etc

That's why i'm now evaluating 2 simple cycles per year (10 weeks), to give me an extra edge on recovery in the first BJJ year, to allow me to train 6x days a week. I'm also confident that after a few months, as my technique improves, i can rely more on technique an not so much on strength, by knowing when to rest and when to apply strength.

 

[morpheusx2003]

I'm planning to do dorsogluteal and deltoid intramuscular injections:
- Figure 1 from Intramuscular injection CLIMAT pathway: a clinical practice guideline. | Semantic Scholar

To aspire: 23G 1 1/4"
For dorsogluteal IM injection : 25G 1"
For deltoid IM Injections: 27G 1/2"

Are these the correct gauge for each role?

 

[morpheusx2003]

I'm torn between using Prop and Phenylpropionate.
Prop is available in several European vendors, but all info on Phenylpropionate seems to indicate it has less PIP than Prop.

Any opinion on Prop vs Phenylpropionate?

 

[GuerillaPete]

I'm torn between using Prop and Phenylpropionate.
Prop is available in several European vendors, but all info on Phenylpropionate seems to indicate it has less PIP than Prop.

Any opinion on Prop vs Phenylpropionate?

Never had problems with pip !
Most problems come from the carrier oil, you must find out what works for you.
Its posible for virgin muscles to have some pip for the first couple weeks than it should go away unless you are part of the very few people that cant handle prop ester, not likley.
Never tried phenylpropionate outside of nandrolone phenylpropionate and that also was pip free.

 

[Girth]

It's all covered here.....also check out the other thread from a guy in your same situation. It's on the first page still.

 

[morpheusx2003]

I finally got the results back:

1 - Total Test: 6.14 ng/mL
2 - Free Test: 6.97 pg/mL
3 - Estradiol: < 24 pg/mL



I have two questions, would be grateful by your help on these:
1 - Total test seems good for the age (46),as well as Estradiol, but Free Test seems way Low.

What does this mean?

2 - Based on these values, what dosage for athletic/recovery would you recommend?