Old (47) man Intensity and Recovery cycle planning (BJJ focus)

[Givemeroidsorgivemedeath]

Preload the T and use Tpop the last 3 weeks to be all the time in the optimum zone and waste no time.

 

[morpheusx2003]

I'm planning to do 8 to 10 weeks prop, i'm trying to decide the dosage, probably between 200mg to 300mg Week.

 

[Girth]

As to your test. Total T looks good probably because, you ARE in normal ranges because you take care of yourself/etc. The Free T gets lower as you get older in most. SHBG changes as you age, along with other factors which tend to lower Free T.

That said, if you intend to use prop, lower end with daily injects. Prop is great for athletics, mainly because you can adjust daily and see the effects of such so quickly. At your height/wt I would think something as simple as 30mg/day of prop would be plenty. You might laugh at that, but I know more than a few who are larger than you that get by on 20mg/day!

Regardless if that's enough or not, it's a great place to start. You can ALWAYS go up IF you need to.

 

[morpheusx2003]

@Girth , thank you for your input, great advise, i also prefer to start slow, and ramp if needed.

30mg/day gives around 210mg/week which is around what i was considering.
I don't think i want to do daily injections, i was aiming to do 70mg M/W/F = 210mg/week.

 

[may2021]

@Girth , thank you for your input, great advise, i also prefer to start slow, and ramp if needed.

30mg/day gives around 210mg/week which is around what i was considering.
I don't think i want to do daily injections, i was aiming to do 70mg M/W/F = 210mg/week.

You still doing JJ 5 times a week? How's that been working out?

 

[morpheusx2003]

I've injured myself in December in the groin in JJ classes, and in Christmas in the neck carrying wood

I'm now waiting for an exam on the neck to check what the problem is.

So the cycle is also on hold until i'm 100% recovered

 

[Carboni]

Interested in how things play out @morpheusx2003. Already past the 50 mark myself and trying to determine the best way to go moving forward. Not nearly as active as you or as skilled in an outside sport or hobby like martial arts but want to stay in shape if I can. Recent experience with TestC, EQ and Deca but always interested in other options if they prove beneficial. HGH is in the research que myself which was mentioned earlier I believe.

Good luck with the injuries and I hope your recovery is quick. Please update this thread if you decide to move forward with your cycle.

 

[morpheusx2003]

Thank you @Carboni.

Its really frustrating, i was loving BJJ (although i was having my ass wiped by everyone ), and due to this injury i can only do cardiac output workouts (1h cycling around 135-150 bpm).

Moreover, as soon as i stop weight training, i start losing weight, i'm now at 77kgs, with an slightly increased BF, it drives me nuts.

My goal is to use the minimal amount of gear, and for now only test to make as simple as possible, that allows me to maintain a high intensity of intensity of training.

Maintaining the weight around 83kg at a lower %BF would be an added bonus, as clean as my diet is, i could ever get to an ideal BF% (10%) without dropping a lot of weight.

I'm anxious to start, but now i have to recover, start training, return to at least 80Kgs naturally, and only then start the cycle

 

[may2021]

You can do it!

I've injured myself in December in the groin in JJ classes, and in Christmas in the neck carrying wood

I'm now waiting for an exam on the neck to check what the problem is.

So the cycle is also on hold until i'm 100% recovered

 

[morpheusx2003]

@Driada Medical , i saw your great post here: Test base before mma fight ?

Based on your knowledge, what would you recommend for my specific situation (i'm going to repeat part of the first post for convenience) :

Brief introduction and Context
I'm a 47 years old male, 5.8", weight varies between 80kgs at 12% BF to 83kgs at 15% BF.

I've done bodybuilding/strength training since i was 20 years old (and around 55kgs), and boxing since i was 30. My routine in the last few years has been 2x week strength training, 3x week boxing sessions, and 1 Cardiac output session per week, for a total of 6 sessions per week.

3 Months ago i started BJJ, training 5x a week, with 2x strength training sessions, for a total of 7 sessions a week: One rest day, and one day with two sessions, a morning Strength session and a BJJ class at the afternoon.

Unfortunately, the 5x sessions have proved to be to demanding, although i was in an excellent shape, i haven't been able to recover from the intensity of the BJJ training. Part of this is due to the fact i've been trying to compensate my lack of technique with strength, but even so, its been very hard to recover, even after dropping the strength training.

Goals
Given i'm approaching 50's, i'm looking for a way to be able to recover and train for the 5 weekly BJJ sessions with maximum intensity with 2 weekly strength sessions. I'm not looking for a big weight increase, as i like where i am physically, if i had to improve anything i would like to be around 80/82 kgs at 10% BF.

Lab results 2 months ago:
- Total Test: 6.14 ng/mL
- Free Test: 6.97 pg/mL
- Estradiol: < 24 pg/mL

I've been injured since Christmas, but have been cleared for training 45 days ago, where i started weight training and cardiac output sessions, up to 6x a week, and i was able to get to around 80kgs at 13/14% BF.

Two weeks ago, i resume BJJ training, i'm focusing in skill training, and things have been going great. Plan is to continuing naturally until the end of the Month, and start a 8 weeks cycle on May.

Planning on using Test prop 3x a week (M/W/F), 80mg dosage, for a week total of 240mg. Goals, as above, is be to able to recover and train for the 5 weekly BJJ sessions with maximum intensity and add 2 weekly strength sessions, eventually a shorter one in the morning on Wednesday, and a max strength session on Saturday, resting on Sunday. Moreover, due to age, minimize potential sides.

Based on your experience, what would you recommend?
Thank you in advance!

 

[Driada Medical]

@Driada Medical , i saw your great post here: Test base before mma fight ?

Based on your knowledge, what would you recommend for my specific situation (i'm going to repeat part of the first post for convenience) :



I've been injured since Christmas, but have been cleared for training 45 days ago, where i started weight training and cardiac output sessions, up to 6x a week, and i was able to get to around 80kgs at 13/14% BF.

Two weeks ago, i resume BJJ training, i'm focusing in skill training, and things have been going great. Plan is to continuing naturally until the end of the Month, and start a 8 weeks cycle on May.

Planning on using Test prop 3x a week (M/W/F), 80mg dosage, for a week total of 240mg. Goals, as above, is be to able to recover and train for the 5 weekly BJJ sessions with maximum intensity and add 2 weekly strength sessions, eventually a shorter one in the morning on Wednesday, and a max strength session on Saturday, resting on Sunday. Moreover, due to age, minimize potential sides.

Based on your experience, what would you recommend?
Thank you in advance!

Hello, sir!

First - could you specify the details of the injury? Because it could be a limiting factor for your training at all.

 

[morpheusx2003]

First - could you specify the details of the injury? Because it could be a limiting factor for your training at all.

The injury was basically pain and stiffness in the neck muscle's, addressed with two months of chiropractic sessions, stretching and specific anti-inflamatory and muscle relaxers medication.

For now, on BJJ, i've been conservative in my training, focusing on skill, and limiting certain positions where the neck is exposed and subject to pression. My training partners also know this, and are avoiding neck attacks, or at least limiting the pressure if they get there.

So far so good, intensity has been high, and i'm gradually trying to push a bit further safely.

 

[Driada Medical]

The injury was basically pain and stiffness in the neck muscle's, addressed with two months of chiropractic sessions, stretching and specific anti-inflamatory and muscle relaxers medication.

For now, on BJJ, i've been conservative in my training, focusing on skill, and limiting certain positions where the neck is exposed and subject to pression. My training partners also know this, and are avoiding neck attacks, or at least limiting the pressure if they get there.

So far so good, intensity has been high, and i'm gradually trying to push a bit further safely.

pain and stiffness are more like symptoms but not the diagnosis... but doesn't matter - if you have no problems with vessels, joints, bones and organs, my advice would be the following:

1. If you want to use testosterone solo - then it will be extremely important to track your level of estradiol. If it is too high - water retention limits your stamina. The recommended level of estradiol is in the middle of the reference values, but most likely it is a matter of your observations and well-being.

2. I would advise you to reduce the dosage to 150 mg per week and add drostanolone propionate and also 150 mg per week. You can mix both drugs in one syringe and do 3 injections per week. The use of two drugs does not cancel the control of estradiol but significantly reduces its possible increase.

2.5 For endurance factors and also light estradiol control, you can consider boldenone, this drug is able to reduce estradiol levels, and increase stamina and appetite.

An excessive increase in hematocrit (blood density), and an increase in pressure, as a result, can negatively affect performance.
These indicators also need to be monitored and, if necessary, drain the blood. Boldenone has particularly strong negative side effects in terms of hematocrit.

Both options may need some aromatase inhibitors.

 

[morpheusx2003]

2. I would advise you to reduce the dosage to 150 mg per week and add drostanolone propionate and also 150 mg per week. You can mix both drugs in one syringe and do 3 injections per week. The use of two drugs does not cancel the control of estradiol but significantly reduces its possible increase.

2.5 For endurance factors and also light estradiol control, you can consider boldenone, this drug is able to reduce estradiol levels, and increase stamina and appetite.

An excessive increase in hematocrit (blood density), and an increase in pressure, as a result, can negatively affect performance.
These indicators also need to be monitored and, if necessary, drain the blood. Boldenone has particularly strong negative side effects in terms of hematocrit.

Both options may need some aromatase inhibitors.

Appreciate the detailed response!

I have MPB (i would say i'm on stage 4 at 47 years old):



Although i really like your suggestion for 150/150 Test/Mast, i'm afraid it would aggravate the MPB. Would a different ratio held some of the benefits, without impacting the hair? Something like 210/90 or even 240/60 Test/Mast?

 

[Driada Medical]

Appreciate the detailed response!

I have MPB (i would say i'm on stage 4 at 47 years old):

View attachment 163837

Although i really like your suggestion for 150/150 Test/Mast, i'm afraid it would aggravate the MPB. Would a different ratio held some of the benefits, without impacting the hair? Something like 210/90 or even 240/60 Test/Mast?

Yes, it will...
Unfortunately, if you have a genetic predisposition to baldness, then even a hair transplant does not guarantee the preservation of the hairstyle.

I would advise you to look at guys like Bezos and stoically overcome it.

But seriously, androgenic drugs are generally not the best choice in this case. Even the androgenic ability of testosterone sometimes is lowered by finsteride, if the preservation of hair or protection from hair growth on the body is very important.
However, it affects both the libido and the psyche, so I would NOT advise doing this without serious doctor's observation.

Different ratio may lower the speed of hairloss, but it will not cancel the fact

 

[Barbarian]

Hello.

I also do bjj and strength training. In my opinion you need something different than you described

For example so:
Test E: 100 mg/week
Deca: 100 mg/week (for joint maintenance)
Prima: 100 mg/week or Drost E: 100 mg/week

And to be honest, at your age, I wouldn't do PCT, but I would do TRT

 

[Grab Bag]

Hello.

I also do bjj and strength training. In my opinion you need something different than you described

For example so:
Test E: 100 mg/week
Deca: 100 mg/week (for joint maintenance)
Prima: 100 mg/week or Drost E: 100 mg/week

And to be honest, at your age, I wouldn't do PCT, but I would do TRT

Jesus Christ man, did you check his total t? He’s at 614 Ng/dl NATTY at age 47. He has ZERO reason to start trt, and frankly he shouldn’t be fucking with his hormones at this point at all, considering how lucky he is to be at that range at his age.

 

[Grab Bag]

Brief introduction and Context
I'm a 47 years old male, 5.8", weight varies between 80kgs at 12% BF to 83kgs at 15% BF.

I've done bodybuilding/strength training since i was 20 years old (and around 55kgs), and boxing since i was 30. My routine in the last few years has been 2x week strength training, 3x week boxing sessions, and 1 Cardiac output session per week, for a total of 6 sessions per week.

3 Months ago i started BJJ, training 5x a week, with 2x strength training sessions, for a total of 7 sessions a week: One rest day, and one day with two sessions, a morning Strength session and a BJJ class at the afternoon.

Unfortunately, the 5x sessions have proved to be to demanding, although i was in an excellent shape, i haven't been able to recover from the intensity of the BJJ training. Part of this is due to the fact i've been trying to compensate my lack of technique with strength, but even so, its been very hard to recover, even after dropping the strength training.

Goals
Given i'm approaching 50's, i'm looking for a way to be able to recover and train for the 5 weekly BJJ sessions with maximum intensity with 2 weekly strength sessions. I'm not looking for a big weight increase, as i like where i am physically, if i had to improve anything i would like to be around 80/82 kgs at 10% BF.

Given my goals, i have 4 cycle options in mind, each with its pros/cons.
I'm going to do bloodwork to see where i'm at, before deciding the doses: if my test values are high/normal for my age, i will probably go with a higher dose, if lower than normal, will do a lower dose. I have Letrozole on hand, just in case, hope it won't be needed.

Option 1: 10 Weeks, 200mg to 350mg Test Cyp per week, 2 injections M/T;
Pros: Easy to get, Simple, less injections, should be enough for intensity and recovering.
Cons: Long ester, so less time in the optimum window.

Option 2: 10 Weeks, 200mg to 350mg Test Prop per week, 3 injections M/W/F;
Pros: Easy to get, Simple, effective, short ester, so more time in the optimum window, can start PCT sooner
Cons: Afraid of the Prop PIP and flue, as it can have a negative effect on training; More injections.

Option 3: 10 Weeks, 200mg to 350mg Test Phenylpropionate per week, 3 injections M/W/F;
Pros: Same as prop, hopefully less PIP
Cons: Only one EU vendor has it

Option 4: 12 Weeks, 200mg Test Cyp + 200mg Equipose per week, 2 injections M/T;
Pros: Easy to get, Simple, less injections, should be enough for intensity and recovering; Adding Equipose should add with cardio and training intensity.
Cons: More time ON, PCT starts very late due to EQ, more complex for first cycle.

What to choose?
Based on the above, and on the goals i'm seeking, what do you think is the safest, simple, and more effective option?

Fellow bjj player here. I’m confused by what your goal is. You say you want to train hard 5 times a week, and seem to think you need juice to do that. However, you’re currently sitting pretty at 614 NG/dl total test at 47 and natty, which is fantastic!

Why do you feel you need anabolics at this point? Why not just train 4x per week? I am asssuming you’re a life long natty? So I would be very careful if I were you. You’re stepping onto a path which there is no way back from. All us guys on here are on trt for life at this point. That doesn’t have to be you, from what I can tell. You have good levels. Consider suana and cold therapy for recovery, and reassess your goals with the sport.

What exactly are you trying to achieve?

 

[morpheusx2003]

I’m confused by what your goal is. You say you want to train hard 5 times a week, and seem to think you need juice to do that.

I wasn't being able to train BJJ 5 days a week (90m), with two full body hard workouts:
- 5 x 5 single leg Bulgarian split squat
- 5 x 5 flat bench press dumbbells
- 5 x 5 bent over barbell rows

To be able to maintain my "ideal" weight/bf ratio, as well as strength, i need (at least) those two workouts. Without them, i loose strength, muscle mass and weight.

Why do you feel you need anabolics at this point? Why not just train 4x per week? I am asssuming you’re a life long natty?

Yes, natty so far.

Well, its been difficult to maintain the drive and the mindset to continually improve. And it seems that its becoming harder every day. It seems that no matter what i do, i'm never able to improve consistently (on strength, size, speed, etc). Add the demanding BJJ sessions, and i simply cannot cope with everything at once.

I could simply reduce the number of BJJ sessions, but that would hinder the progression i want to obtain in BJJ.

I'm hopping that a small anabolic dosage would provide the extra ingredient to be able to have new gains, increased strength, body composition improvements, etc, even with the full 7 weekly sessions (5 BJJ and 2 strength training).

What exactly are you trying to achieve?

Adding to above, there is also the "What If" question, how high would i be able to go (relative to my own potential), if using a small anabolic dosage?

You bring very good points, thank you!

 

[Grab Bag]

I wasn't being able to train BJJ 5 days a week (90m), with two full body hard workouts:
- 5 x 5 single leg Bulgarian split squat
- 5 x 5 flat bench press dumbbells
- 5 x 5 bent over barbell rows

To be able to maintain my "ideal" weight/bf ratio, as well as strength, i need (at least) those two workouts. Without them, i loose strength, muscle mass and weight.


Yes, natty so far.

Well, its been difficult to maintain the drive and the mindset to continually improve. And it seems that its becoming harder every day. It seems that no matter what i do, i'm never able to improve consistently (on strength, size, speed, etc). Add the demanding BJJ sessions, and i simply cannot cope with everything at once.

I could simply reduce the number of BJJ sessions, but that would hinder the progression i want to obtain in BJJ.

I'm hopping that a small anabolic dosage would provide the extra ingredient to be able to have new gains, increased strength, body composition improvements, etc, even with the full 7 weekly sessions (5 BJJ and 2 strength training).




Adding to above, there is also the "What If" question, how high would i be able to go (relative to my own potential), if using a small anabolic dosage?

You bring very good points, thank you!

Best of luck to you in whatever you choose to do, my man. Again, based on how good your natty levels are at your age, I would really recommend you think long and hard before messing with your hormones.

If you are going to go for it, I would reccomend you experiment with testosterone only. See how you respond to that first, get yourself dialed in, and then decide if you want to add on other compounds.

Maybe I’m off base here, but you mention frustration with not being able to improve in various areas despite 5x bjj and 2x full body workouts per week, have you ever considered you may be overtraining? Recovery is essential in muscle building.

Also, I’ve not personally been able to build much muscle during periods of doing bjj 4x a week because it is such an intense aerobic activity. Hard to gain weight/put on muscle when you’re burning 1000 calories a day pajama wrestling. In periods when I have wanted to focus on muscle building, I have laid off the bjj. All I’m trying to get at in this thought is that you may have goals which are in conflict.